Buellwinkle

Here's the latest dependability study from JD Powers. This is the first year they switched to a 3 year old cars (2000 model year cars). The funny part is that Plymouth, Dodge and Chrysler faired better, well, so did all other domestic brands other than Jeep.

Mercedes

Who cares, seriously. I didn't buy my car because JD associates said it was good.

tifosiv122

I filled out my JD Survey on my Jag.

I gave it perfect marks.

Since then, I have had:

Engine replaced
Tranny Replaced
Traction contol replaced
Multiple switches replaced
dash cluster replaced
shifter fixed 3 times

All within a few years and 2x,xxx miles.
If they gave me the survey now it would show very differently.

According to my Jag tech...1 out of 7 jags have severe and constant problems....luck of the draw I guess.

Erik

Matt230K

Yeah, mine is good so far. If it has problems in the future, I will understand, but I could care less what JD Powers has to say about it. All I care about is how my car runs.

Buellwinkle

Normally they do this on 5 year old cars but this time they switched to 3 year old cars so it's not the initial quality survey done after 90 days that most people are familiar with. I know MB has always made one of the least reliable cars, a small notch above the Korean cars but that's OK, 20 free loaners in less than 2 years, great service, free cookies and car washes, cheap performance mods, how can you beat that? Yes, the survey doesn't mean much now, we already own these ticking time bombs. Surveys like this do help me decide on if it's worth taking the risk beyond the 4 yr/50K warranty, and based on averages it's not worth the risk. You just have to ask yourself, are you feeling lucky. The part that makes me think is that I believe the W203 is less reliable than the W202 that they surveyed, I wonder what the test will look like in 2 years when my year of car is the one being tested, will the Korean cars overtake MB?

steffen

I am beginning to wonder whether all these little nit problems on my car were designed to create a relationship between myself and MB. If you have to drop your car off every two months to get something tweaked, you're more likely to check out the new cars that are arriving and talk to the sales people... And you have to admit, they treat you so well (washes, loaner, cookies, free espresso at my dealer) that it feels more like a visit to a good friend...

So maybe all these little quality issues are helping MB Sales. That would explain why sales revenue is going UP.

--Steffen

willis5050

I don't know, after having a toyota bought back under lemon law and then selling the replacement because of excessive problems, I now welcome the reliability of my MB. I suppose I have learned to take these studies with a grain of salt as I have been burned by buying a traditionally reliable brand.

FrankW

any car is good compare to our 96 Dodge minivan which the belt tensioner broke off after one year and guess what the part was made in Canada.

my car only has minor problems which doesn't make me qualify'em as a dependability problem. At least to me that is. In the end, we'll see who's more satisfied with their purchase. There's this solidity feel about the MBs and BMWs or Audis and Jaguars that no japanese car will be able to achieve.

I've sat in my friend's 92 Lexus LS400, sure it does have much problems, but the interior bits just look so cheesy compare to the 92 MB or 92 BMW.

Guest0001

i dont care about surveys

BruNo

i think d survey tells d truth IMO. my lex nver broke down, went to d dealer only twice in almost 4years(thats for servicing). my benz has had 4major components replaced in 1+years.

Rick

Buell, if you're really that dissatisfied with your purchase, this IS America and you have every right to sell it.

Buy a Lexus, Infinity or BMW...all the car rags seem to love those. Only then will you be able to appreciate how good the MB experience really is. They all have forums you can whine in too. Maybe they'll even provide you with the cheese you seem to crave.

Better yet....buy a box of those new "pearls" tampons....and quit ragging here.

moomeh

who is j.d. power. i don't remember getting any survey and filling out my opinion.

czachari

My C230K is my 1st Benz and also nothing serious so far.
I had a Toyota MR2 which needed a new alternator 2 years into ownership. I had an Eagle Talon Tsi AWD and although nothing ever broke on it, I had a ton of recalls done on it. My Wife's A4 has been stellar so far. I prefer the feell of German cars. No other makes can reproduce that.

As far as quality goes, I think it's luck of the draw.
Statistically speaking, my luck is running out.

CZ

taylor192

My $0.02:

In all my reading on these forums, I have rarely heard of any real major problems, like engine or tranny failures, just a lot of minor problems - so realiability I don't see as a MB issue. I have visited the Nissan forums, and there are many people complaining of severe engine problems and trannys that wear out within the first few years, yet Nissan ranks higher than MB - mostly cause aside from the basic car components, there isn't much else to complain about, unlike our technological MB marvels where there's often something to nit-pick about.

Here's another interesting thing - isn't JD powers an American survey? Americans that love American cars are often less inclined to complain, its that American pride kicking in - thus probably why the domestics fair better long term, and why Cadillac scores so high.

JAM

Taylor, well said. I call it a Ford mentatlity. I am surprised by how many people think it is okay to have to pay for a new transmission at 30k miles on a Ford or GM product. An engine rebuild is almost considered more of routine maintnance to some of these people. People have to be carefull with these surveys, because owners of different cars have different expectation. Yes, MBs are quircky, but they are very reliable. Benz owners expect more, and probably complaiun more, but I can say with confidence that Saturn owners (rated better than a Benz for reliability) have more severe issues than Benz owners. Not to mention, who the heck would feel that a Saturn is a safe car? I say this because there is definately a correlation between safety and reliability. I'm drifting off topic, so that's enough for now...

Buellwinkle

So what you are saying is people who buy MB's have higher expectations that people that buy BMW, Audi, Lexus, Cadillac, Acura, Lincoln and Infiniti? That makes sense except for past owners like me that already knew what they were getting into and were hoping for improvements.

Also it's not that easy to just sell the car and get a Lexus. For one, Lexus doesn't offer free car washes and cookies. Secondly, so many people know about MB's woes that resale value is in the tank. Should I have bought the more reliable BMW 325i for a few thousand more I would be sitting pretty now and can sell it for minimal loss but on my MB the resale values are comperable to many domestic cars so I have to sit on it for 4 years and hope that it doesn't go down any further. Also the cars I'm eyeing won't be out for another year, the re-styled 2005 Ford Mustang convertible or the new 2005 SLK (I know I want a ragtop again for my next car).

JAM

Yes, Benz owners have higher expectations.... would you really consider a Ford over and SLK? Totally different cars, and totally different personalities that the cars portray.

Buellwinkle

They are different but to me they both have good and bad points. The Mustang is more reliable, seats 4 and is generally faster. The SLK offers free car washes and cookies and service loaners.

David N.

At least our beer is better!!!

Keyser_Soze

I'm not even gonna touch the mustange and MB comparison you did Bull with a ten feet pole....

I agree with most people here....basically i think if you are drivin a MB it is more likely for every little thing you show up at your dealer and you want it to be taken care of....vs. if you were drivin a freakin ford escort....you obviously don't mind drivin a in a sh*t box...so why would you care to go to the sh*ty ford dealership and have it taken care of?!

Sorry Bull ....i'm not a confrontational/argument type person...but comparing MB with Ford....is crossin the line.... by the way....have you seen a dash in any ford?! all the same cra*py ugly plastic...ahhhh...i stop

taylor192

Lincoln and Cadillac are typical domestics with followers who don't often complain, plus their parts are shared with other models that they are less prone to problems (more testing from more models == better quality, usually). BMW people are freaks, they are mostly concerned with performance so all the other goodies don't often set them off to complain. Lexus is Toyota, and Acura Honda, thus no wonder they have fewer problems, they are better built vehicles. Infiniti strikes me though - no explanation - Nissan's are crap, I wonder why Infiniti does so well??

taylor192

Have you ever thought that maybe these extras encourage MB owners to complain more!

shtatc

I did not get to fill out the JD Power survey. My car was originally an European delivery car - for some reason, cars that get picked up in Europe do not apply to the survey. But I have no real complaints. I can deal with the little things, since I have had good service from the dealer so far. The only thing that still bugs me is the side view mirrors "floating" - I know they have a tech bulletin out on this, but I have not had time to take the car in. Unfortunately, I am away for work and dont get to drive my car for 3 months. Driving a Saturn (rental) right now - miss my car each time I get into it.

Buellwinkle

With MB I try to ignore the problems long enough so I can get them fixed at the group rate. The Mustang I have to really dig deep to find the slightest thing wrong for them to fix so I feel I got my money's worth on the warranty. I complained about a slight wear spot on a 3 year old convertible top and they replaced the entire top under warranty. I complained that the seat belt buckle made a slight indentation in the door panel and they not only replaced the panel but they replace the seat belt saying it wasn't retracting fast enough and what's best, they repaired it on the first try, no arguing, just action. MB on the other hand has trouble doing oil changes that require 2 trips, check engine lights that require 3 trips for the same issue, a bad thermostat. But you are right, I can't compare the two, the cookies, car washes and service loaners are what makes MB tolerable for me. To put things in perspective for you, I offered my wife my 2 year old MB with XM radio to drive to No Cal (about 8 hours) and she didn't think it would make the round trip and chose her 6 year old Honda instead and I don't even tell her about most of my trips to the dealer, don't want to hear the I told you so's.

Jim Banville

I have lost count as to the number of times I've asked Buellwinkle to post C-class stats vs. BMW 3 series, Audi 4 series and any other Euoprean car in the same size/price category, but he insists only using surveys that include the trouble-prone G and ML classes