David N.

Are you kidding me?!!! Do you think Canada is some backwards country!!

We DO get a 4 year 80,000km bumper to bumper warranty, plus a 2 year 40k wear and tear warranty. The only thing we don't get is the no charge scheduled maintenance. We also get MB loaners up here as well. I know, hard to believe!!

I don't mind if you salm MB, but leave Canada out of it!!!

Buellwinkle

Never... Compared to your MGB's anything is super reliable. One thing I can say, if I ever owned one car that was less realiable than any of my MB's it has to my British Leyland car, the Spitfire. Now that's a car that you have to let people know where you are going so they can send for help if you don't make it.

Canadians do not get the free mainenance but on the other hand they pay lower prices (after exchange rate). They must get the better MB's because they complain less.

steffen

My apologies to all the Canadians out there.
I guess I got it wrong - no scheduled maintenance in Canada but plenty of warranty - that's great.

--Steffen

Jim Banville

What in the world convinced you of this? A couple of repetative whiners? Some here have had good luck with their MB's. Some here have had bad luck. Some here have, as ridiculous as it may seem, had bad luck with MB after MB, but continue to buy them (and biotch about them) for free car washes and snacks! No one here, as far as I can see, has said that they believe MB's in general are as reliable as the popular Japanese brands (although several here have <gasp> had bad luck with them too!). Some of us just believe that MB's aren't as bad as the aforementioned whiners would lead you to believe.

Jim Banville

AND? Is that the best you got? You said that was caused by the dummy at your dealer "drowning" it when he washed the engine. HOW IN THE WORLD does that relate to MB reliability? That could happen to any car. So, remind me again why your wife is afraid the car will break down on that road trip (since it has NEVER broken down on its own)?

David N.

I honestly wonder if MB was ever as good (back in the day) as most of us seem to believe. Its almost as if its some urban legend that has perpetuated over the years.

What were MB's like 20 and 30 years ago? Were they really the gold standard?

I think the real problem for MB is that the japanese have done such an incredible job of building reliable cars. I don't think MB has fallen behind, its just that they can't keep up. Thus the percieved lack of quality/declining quality.

MB is also hampered by the amount of technonlogy they put into their cars. A Camry doesn't have BAS, thus a Camry owner would never get a BAS error. Or the Camry may not have a mini computer system in the c0ckpit to tell it that it has the error like we do.

Just something to think about.

Buellwinkle

I can answer that since my first MB was bought in 1983 or 20 years ago as a 1984 W201, the grandaddy of the W203, the original baby benz. It went in 12 times for the same problem, the thottle linkage would get hot and expand and fall off. Engineers determined that the throttle linkage was too close to the exhaust manifold. MB took the car back under the brand new lemon law, no lawyers, no fuss. This is just what justified replacement but the car was in for other stuff they couldn't even fix like the AC system exploded and they couldn't get the replacement parts, turns out the system would get overpressurized because of some fan not turning and it would just explode, that was one of the first recalls. The radio was replaced every 2-3 months, the buttons would literally fall off. The replacement W201 wasn't really much better but they worked out the throttle linkage issue by then but it need a transmission and horn within a week, radio about 2 months later. The throttle on that one got brittle and snapped off, had to drive with a string from the throttle to the window. Spent a lot of time at the dealer, no loaners, no cookies, no car washes. There were no forums to see if I was then only one but I would imagine I wasnt'. I figured how bad can the new ones be, they must of improved quality control by now, I was wrong, they are the same or worse. But I loved my MB back then, and love this little quirky car just as much. I'll miss it when the warranty is up but it just not worth the risk to me to keep it beyond that.

Now my parents who didn't believe cars can be that bad told me my problems are because I bought cheap and if they got the better benz, the E, they would live life in bliss. They were doing OK until on a bright sunny day, cruising on the freeways of San Diego the car caught on fire, a wiring short in the trunk the nice fireman said. They love their replacement volvo that they had for about 10 years now.

This doesn't mean every MB is bad, it's just that I strongly believe that the deck is stacked against you so you have to consider the extended warranty or sell it in 4 years. I chose to sell in 4 years, the extended warranty plus the additional depreciation for another 3 years was not worth it.

TNblkc230wz

You can't believe everything you read. I think my Hondas and Acura were horribly unreliable.

If my MB is as reliable as my Chryslers, I'll be very happy.

No other car matches the joy I get from driving my MB, except maybe a Porsche. But it doesn't have enough room for everyday use.

GDawgC220

No matter what car brand you buy, there's not a perfect brand out there. Some will get a MB with no problems, some will get a MB with some minor problems and others will get a MB with major problems. This is with any car maker out there, not just MB. Every batch of cars, there's bound to be a few that are not perfect and some people just get those few. Who said life was fair, right?

You can't take those surveys literally, it has to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure some MB owners have had no problems and some others have their fair share problems. I'm guessing most MB owners buy MB because of their name and history for safety or whatnot. True, most people would expect to have seen MB higher on the list of the survey, but it all comes down to each individual owner. Just because it got 27th place on the survey does not apply to all MB's and their quality, dependability, etc. Each and every MB is different, some perfect, some not.

From reading some stories on this forum, some people have had bad luck with their MB's while others have had great luck and no problems. Bottom line, judge for yourself and your MB, not the whole company in general. Seriously, why did you buy your MB in the first place? Safety, name, dependability, luxury, etc...and how satisfied are you with YOUR car?

oggle

I didin't specifically call you that and I didn't say everyone was in denial. In fact I don't even remember off the top of my head who's reply it was that set off that reply of mine.

But I do see this trend of denial. I for one am not offended by Buell's posts. If my car had lots of problems I'd be pissed like him too, whether my car was a MB or a Hyundai.

The JD powers survey is just that, a survey. Unless one is fluent in the process of statistics and have read up on all of their specs/conditions for the survey, it's kinda pointless to attack its findings by guessing at people's "mentalities" or "pickiness". It's one thing to have factual evidence to back up one's claim, it's another to just go around guessing in denial.

Xpeed

God dam it every time I come to the C forum you guys are fighting over this, is it reliable not its not reliable who gives a F**K if you don’t like the car sell it if you like it keep it. Some of you guys whine too much and some of you need to take you heads out of you’re a$$ and admit that MB has some issues, but so F**king what, what car company doesn’t have some issues with their cars.

MarkL

Oggle, I think the point is, while Buell can talk all he wants about his problems, I for one feel I'm in the majority, and not the minority, when it comes to my MB's excellent reliability. The "offense" element comes in when a person continually strives to convince others that all MB's are bad -- eventually it's hard to just sit back and not rebut the statements, which are truly only relevant to his tiny sphere of experience with his particular vehicles. Why are my statements that I've had no issues not as weighty as his moans of problems? Why should I have to accept his "truths" when I have truths of my own? It's similar to a proselytizer who comes to my door and tries to convince me to change my views. State your issues all you want, but don't try to convince me that because you have some experience, that is the universal truth.

Jim Banville

Anyone notice how Buellwinkle has no responses to my posts? His wife refuses to drive his current MB for "reliability issues", yet the only time it has ever broken down was a result of an over active car washer at his dealer shorting out a sensor. He also refuses to point out C-class specific stats vs. other cars in the same size/price category, such as 3 series BMW, Audi 4 series, etc. He does to love to point out stats that include the G and ML classes, which anyone will admit are lots of trouble, IN GENERAL (especially the early models), although I'm sure there are some riding around virtually trouble-free. A JD Power exec. even pointed out the hit the MB marque took in overall reliability from these trouble-prone classes!

And exactly who here has said that some MB's don't have issues?

neptunespeed

Exactly, NONE of us are saying that MB's are trouble-free and the greatest cars in the world. But these posts of "MB SUCKS!! WHO'S WITH ME??!!" are getting tedious.

Let's just agree to disagree and not give these threads anymore unnecessary time.

mctwin2kman

I just think it is funny. No vehicle is %100 reliable. Hell no product is reliable %100 of the time. This is life and this is why there are warranties and lemon laws. If we lived in Buell's Utopian dream world we would all be driving Ford's and every restaraunt would be named Taco Bell. Come on now people, some are going to have problems and some are not. Some people's issues may not be bad in there mind and may fill the survey out nicely where others may be pissed at there problems and fill the survey out poorly. Some MB owners may no like there steering wheel buttons cracking on the $80,000 G500 and some may not mind and just see it as a minor issue with the vehicle. Some people with Ford's or Dodges may not be bothered by brake dust of a bad door seal, where a person with an MB or a Volvo may be pissed. It is all opinion people and no matter what we say people's opinions will not change. Let's face it, there is a diferent kind of person with very diferent expectations buying MB, Volvo, BMW, Jag, Infiniti and Lexus than the group that buy Ford, Dodge, GM, or any Japanese product. They all have diferent expectations of what to expect from there vehicle. So lets weigh in on if someone would take there GM in for a day or two to get serviced for the door seal or steering wheel buttons or a ESP/BAS light and not get a loaner for the time being or have to take a day off to get the vehicle serviced or would they deal with the issue for a time until they have time to take it in. Or would they rather have a Benz that they get a loaner and are not put out because there dealer picks there car up for them and drops a loaner off, but they still ***** because they are inconvienenced because they had to make a phone call. I would rather have the loaner and that is why I bought the Benz. Not only for the looks and for the performance that I get and for the features and comfort. I will put up with a minor issue and I will call and get it fixed. I will get my free loaner and I will still be happy because I am and Engineer and I realize that nothing in life is perfect and some stuff just slips throught the cracks and some stuff just breaks. Is this a quality issue? Well maybe but not in my opinion. It is just dumb luck. I got a good one and Buell got a bad one. Well, go by yet another and maybe that will be the good one, or buy another brand. Either way with todays world of mergers, eventually we will only have 4 choices of who to buy from. There will still be all the names out there, but the will be owned by one of the big four or three or five. So it will all be a moot point.

Xpeed

galaxygrrl

My guess is Bueille has not responded to your posts because of your style. I don't respond either because you ratchet up the debate to the point of making it extremely personal and unplesent IMHO. Why would he want to engage someone when the debate will turn ugly.

Enjoy your car

Beth

MBZman

Okay, let me get this straight: Lexus 163 problems per 100 vehicles = 1.63 problems per vehicle. Honda 218 per 100 = 2.18 per vehicle. MB 318 per 100 = 3.18 per vehicle. So I will have 1.55 more problems in 3 years than if I buy a Lexus and 1 more problem than if I buy a Honda, keeping in mind the biggest complaints included brake dust and bum window switches and the ML (which I think we all know about) is included in the survey.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am in no way trying to take away from Lexuses achievements of quality, they are obviously head and shoulders above everyone else. I am also not trying to make excuses for MB, they have clearly let quality slip and are using cheaper parts.

As I've told many people in the past, I wasn't impressed by MB when they were #1, and I'm not impressed by Lexus because they're #1. IMHO these surveys are and do not sway me in my automobile purchasing decisions.

66 Roadster

AND ANOTHER THING Just kidding.

Actually - One reason I ordered the MB over the Infinity is the long lasting appeal. I have owned may Japanese cars and yes they are very good cars. I have been a mechanic on Jap cars (older cars) and yes they are put together much better then most. BUT, a Jap car gets old in style and funtion after 3 to 4 years. A MB is still a very nice car after 20 years. Look at an old Datsun - yea it is cute, but and old MB still has class!

CRB

Well, if you are coming to this forum the day or two after JD Powers has released thier lasted survey, then discussion of Mercedes' performance on said survey would seem appropriate for a Mercedes forum. Yes?

On the denial issue: I have read responses about how the M-class is pulling down the Mercedes brand and such. But, Consumer Reports says all M-B lines are now Below Average or worse. A trend is a trend, denial notwithstanding.

On the "Sell it, and move on" issue: At some point whining has to give way to action, such as selling. IMO, the name and reputation and, of course, styling are the things that keeps the lights on at Mercedes dealerships. Complex, cutting edge technology will never be the most reliable.

The reliability bar has been raised in the last twenty years an M-B hasn't answered the bell and responded. If and when the Korean marques score higher would be the final insult. Kimchi laced spittle right in the eye of the proud Germans.

mctwin2kman

My parents have a Lexus RX300 and it has some serious quality control issues. After 2 years, with one remaining on the lease, the front cupholders crumbled and will barely even open let alone hold a drink. The plastic interior pieces are falling off in the rear, they do not have any little kids anymore so it is just adults back there. Other than that the thing is still kicking. But quality it is not. They would still lease another because to them that crap is just due to wear and tear and there unwillingness to drive 70 miles to get them fixed. Had they filled out a survey none of this would matter to them because they expect it after running a car dealership and having it in the family for 73 years.

Jim Banville

How does CS get its info? Do they consider a BAS/ESP malfunction warning, as most of us have gotten, as "unreliable"? Is excessive brake dust on the wheels considered "unrelaible"? When the guy at the dealer washes the engine and shorts out a sensor, does that make the electrical system "unrelaible"? Personally, I consider something that makes me unable to drive my car as a problem with "reliability".
To someone with a subsrciption to CS, PLEASE post the C-class info, along with info on BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and other similarly sized/priced sedans

thanks

Buellwinkle

Yes, they do miss the point, it's not about my car, it's about MB and how people will see it and how it affects prices and resale value. It's about a survey that has just been published and appeared in the 1st or 2nd page of major newspapers across the country, mentioned on TV news shows and on the radio. In my opinion this is big, not small like my single car. It doesn't matter if it's engines that blow up or excessive brake dust. It doesn't matter if your car is perfect, in the end you all pay the price for MB's reputation. If it turns sour you will sell your car for thousands less than if it's great, doesn't matter if you keep it 1 year or 10. The person buying won't know if you took it in once or 20 times for warranty work. Personally I would prefer that MB's reputation stay great, that way when it is time to sell I can get a fair price and buy another car, maybe even another MB.

So your fight should not be with me but the idiots at MB.

steffen

I am a Consumer Reports subscriber. The C class is listed as "Much Worse Than Average" in reliability. They get this information by sending a survey to subscribers on an annual basis. I don't know exactly what the difference is between "Much Better Than" and "Much Worse Than" but it is probably somewhat subtle - like the difference between 1 visit per year to the dealer and 3 visits per year.

My previous car was also rated as "Much Worse than Average" and a "Used Car to Avoid" but it served me quite well.

I use Consumer Reports and JD Power as a guide in making my purchasing decision but only as an influencer. I accept the fact that quality for MB has declined (the surveys show lots of evidence of this happening). No need to be in denial about this - we accept this and still buy MB because we like how the service guys treat us, we like the brand, and we like the performance of the product.

--Steffen

FrankW

damn...some of you sure whines a lot and some of you just don't want to admit even if your car has minor problems.