help
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
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2005 mercedes benz 230k sport
help
Hi guys I need some help diagnosing a starting issue with my 2005 c180 sport. the car is from the UK and got it about two months ago. about a month ago the vehicle refused to start, it would crank and attempt to start but nothing. the fault codes I got were for the camshaft (intake and exhaust) sensors and also a maf sensor code. I replaced all three sensors, the computer does not pick up any fault codes now however it still does not start. Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
ps. from a small island in the Caribbean called Saint Lucia.
ps. from a small island in the Caribbean called Saint Lucia.
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 904
Likes: 22
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh!
2003 C230 Sports Coupe, Paprika Metallic Red, Auto, Pano, Leather
Which sensor did you change,..........
P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction (Bank 1) ) check vaccum leaks first or
P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
Change CPS (use OEM)
Check vacuum hoses,... Do the $12 vacuum hose update
P0170 Fuel Trim Malfunction (Bank 1) ) check vaccum leaks first or
P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
Change CPS (use OEM)
Check vacuum hoses,... Do the $12 vacuum hose update
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 9
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2005 mercedes benz 230k sport
I think I got the first code wrong (P0170), cant remember the exact code but it was a MAF sensor code. When I originally got the car it came with the CEL on and the code it gave was for the MAF sensor and figured it made sense because of the reduced MPG I was getting (18-23) but at that point, apart from that issue it drove ok. then after about two weeks it refused to start one evening and got the code for the camshaft position sensor. Also do you mind explaining what the $12 hose update is because trust me it wont cost $12 in my country...
ps. thanks for the help so far guys
ps. thanks for the help so far guys
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 9
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2005 mercedes benz 230k sport
are you sure its one?, remember my model is from england C180, not that I think that should matter. But yes I did change two Camshaft position sensors...
004 153 6928 (exhaust sensor)
004 153 9628 (intake sensor)
you can google it.
004 153 6928 (exhaust sensor)
004 153 9628 (intake sensor)
you can google it.
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 904
Likes: 22
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh!
2003 C230 Sports Coupe, Paprika Metallic Red, Auto, Pano, Leather
YOU can Google CPS,... buy ONE OEM CPS and change it.
Dam Brits,.... drive on the wrong side of the road and can't figure out what a CPS is. And because I drive on the right side of the road,... I'm right! ;P
Dam Brits,.... drive on the wrong side of the road and can't figure out what a CPS is. And because I drive on the right side of the road,... I'm right! ;P
Thread Starter
Newbie
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2005 mercedes benz 230k sport
Ok will do, and just to clear things up I never said anything about 2 Crankshaft position sensors I said the car has 2 CAMSHAFT position sensors which I already changed. At this point I feel the need to add the kindest "**** off" I've ever meant @sunnyraytoronto for the snide remarks, but hey thanks for help will let you know if it works.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 35
From: Austin, TX
2005 C230K(sold), Mk7 Jetta
This is a camshaft position sensor:
This is a camshaft adjuster solenoid:
It is basically an electromagnet which can change the camshaft angle according to the data ECU gets from the sensors on the first picture.
Please do listen to advice given to you since you ask for help.
UPD
Ok, sorry.. Looked in WIS, there are two hall effect sensors in M271. I stand corrected, and apologize for my ignorance
This is a camshaft adjuster solenoid:
It is basically an electromagnet which can change the camshaft angle according to the data ECU gets from the sensors on the first picture.
Please do listen to advice given to you since you ask for help.
UPD
Ok, sorry.. Looked in WIS, there are two hall effect sensors in M271. I stand corrected, and apologize for my ignorance
Last edited by VVF; Oct 18, 2013 at 03:16 PM. Reason: I posted crap, sorry...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 15
From: Orange County
2005 C Wagon (No snickering please!)
I think there is some confusion here between CAMshaft and CRANKshaft sensors. Both are called CPS by a lot of people. The car has two camshafts, and a sensor on each one. There is one crankshaft, and a single sensor on it.
The camshaft sensors are Hall effect devices which are solid state magnet detectors. There are magnets whirling about on the camshaft. The sensors do fail, but so do the magnets. Heat kills them. If a Hall effect sensor "fails," chances are the magnet is the real culprit.
The crankshaft sensor is an induction coil with a bias magnet. This sensor looks at the teeth on the flywheel and uses them as a reluctor (look it up) to change the inductance of the coil. This is used to inform the ECU when to inject fuel and fire sparkplugs.
There are codes for bad crankshaft sensors, but sometimes none show when the sensor is very high resistance. The DC resistance of the crankshaft sensor should be about 700 ohms. If it is 10,000 (10K) or more time for a new one.
The 170 code could be a bad fuel pressure regulator if too rich, or simply a clogged fuel filter if too lean. On an eight year old car, I'd start with a new filter. You also must insure the integrity of the vacuum hoses. Leaks will cause severe problems and could lead to failure of that new MAF sensor by allowing JPD (just plain dirt) to enter the intake.
The 341 code is a range or performance code. Meaning the sensor works, but the data is suspect. A change of magnet may be the easiest path to follow.
The camshaft sensors are Hall effect devices which are solid state magnet detectors. There are magnets whirling about on the camshaft. The sensors do fail, but so do the magnets. Heat kills them. If a Hall effect sensor "fails," chances are the magnet is the real culprit.
The crankshaft sensor is an induction coil with a bias magnet. This sensor looks at the teeth on the flywheel and uses them as a reluctor (look it up) to change the inductance of the coil. This is used to inform the ECU when to inject fuel and fire sparkplugs.
There are codes for bad crankshaft sensors, but sometimes none show when the sensor is very high resistance. The DC resistance of the crankshaft sensor should be about 700 ohms. If it is 10,000 (10K) or more time for a new one.
The 170 code could be a bad fuel pressure regulator if too rich, or simply a clogged fuel filter if too lean. On an eight year old car, I'd start with a new filter. You also must insure the integrity of the vacuum hoses. Leaks will cause severe problems and could lead to failure of that new MAF sensor by allowing JPD (just plain dirt) to enter the intake.
The 341 code is a range or performance code. Meaning the sensor works, but the data is suspect. A change of magnet may be the easiest path to follow.
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 904
Likes: 22
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh!
2003 C230 Sports Coupe, Paprika Metallic Red, Auto, Pano, Leather
Ok will do, and just to clear things up I never said anything about 2 Crankshaft position sensors I said the car has 2 CAMSHAFT position sensors which I already changed. At this point I feel the need to add the kindest "**** off" I've ever meant @sunnyraytoronto for the snide remarks, but hey thanks for help will let you know if it works.
Secondly, if you're going to come here seeking help for your problem,... I would strongly recommend that you do a thorough SEARCH first. These Mercedes are about 10 years old,.... and basically, every problem imaginable has been posted and solved,... and re-posted,... multiple times,.... If and only if, after you've completed a thorough SEARCH and still can't find an adequate solution, then please post your request for help,.... and post with as much details as possible in your first post,... so we don't have to go back and forth asking for simple basic information (like fault codes) that should have been posted originally. And when someone throws you a bone,... like "$12 vacuum hose update",... so a SEARCH on it! We have better things to do in life than to help someone too lazy to do a simple SEARCH.
Thirdly, if you feel entitled to service with a smile,... please, see your local Mercedes-Benz Stealership,... and pay for it! They'll also include some milk and cookies for you too!
Aliq,... and please feel free to fill out our customer satisfaction survey at 1-800-EAT-SHlT ;P
Last edited by SunnyRayToronto; Oct 18, 2013 at 03:00 PM.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 9
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2005 mercedes benz 230k sport
first off, many thanks moviela for clearing that up as I could've foreseen a long back and forth with sunny... trying to convince him that the car does have 2 camshaft position sensors, I did state in my post that I changed 2 camshaft position sensors yet you replied with your "snide remark", so its either you misunderstood or your were ignorant of the fact about the 2 sensors (feel free to take a wild guess which one I think it is...
). Just so you know I do appreciate the help which I have received / receiving and I did say that in one of my previous post, but in giving advice there's no need to come at someone like that for no apparent reason.
ps. have fun rearranging the following letters, I made it easy for you
"F C U K F O F"
). Just so you know I do appreciate the help which I have received / receiving and I did say that in one of my previous post, but in giving advice there's no need to come at someone like that for no apparent reason.ps. have fun rearranging the following letters, I made it easy for you
"F C U K F O F"
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 904
Likes: 22
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh!
2003 C230 Sports Coupe, Paprika Metallic Red, Auto, Pano, Leather
Oh great,... another game of #%$@ scrabble! Where were you a couple of days ago when Todd was playing scrabble and footsie? Dam,... my feet are still so sore! ;P
Hmmm,.... F C U K OFF,.... French Connection United Kingdom Of France,.... WTF? Dam, they can't even make up their mind on the other side of the pond,....
Hmmm,.... F C U K OFF,.... French Connection United Kingdom Of France,.... WTF? Dam, they can't even make up their mind on the other side of the pond,....
Last edited by SunnyRayToronto; Oct 18, 2013 at 04:46 PM.
Super Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 904
Likes: 22
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh!
2003 C230 Sports Coupe, Paprika Metallic Red, Auto, Pano, Leather
Moderator - Unless newbie poster "aliq" is banned for clear & repeated violations of MBWorld's Term Of Use agreement, this will be the absolute last time I ever post any help for any Newbie seeking assistance.
