alanmb

According to Wikipedia's C-Class page (http://*******/WLt4TK), such an animal exists, although in limited quantities (100 each model).

I just searched Autotrader and neither model is for sale, which was expected.

I've been looking for a hot-rod wagon, and can't find one that floats my boat. (I currently have an SLK32 and a C55.) While looking for a wagon, I found two high-mileage C320 wagons for sale in the $5k range. I kept looking ... about a month now, off and on. Something about the $5k C320's has been stuck in my head since I saw them, but I couldn't figure it out. Then, today, as I climbed out of my SLK32, it hit me - why not buy a $5k wagon and find a wrecked C32, or buy a used powertrain, and build my own?!

My friend, a professional Mercedes mechanic, does all the work on my SLK32. I bet he'd be willing to give it a shot. I figure $5k (old wagon) + $7k (parts & labor, if direct install) = $12k. Sure beats a Volvo V50! (and I've been drooling over the C63 wagon - check out Drive on Youtube)

Are the engine and transmission mounts the same on the C32 and C320 wagon?

I'll bug MIke, my mechanic guru, and post an update. Anyone else interested in something like this? Done it? Challenges? I suspect the challenge will be finding the magical "wrecked C32" or "used powertrain" at a reasonable cost.

TTR

I talked to one of the forum guys on here about doing a C43 engine swap into my C240. Apparently it'll be just too much power for the car to handle since it'll be key performance parts here and there. Just the result of a conversation I've had, if you heard differently then ooooohhhh baby.

tommy

WaveyKat did the swap. I just can't see it being a very smart thing to do, from a money perspective.

alanmb

Since the 3.2 L AMG engine is based on an internally modified Mercedes 3.2 L engine, I think the external mount points and most of the primary systems interfaces are in the same position. The chassis are also the same, so the transmission, rear, and suspension should swap with little effort. Since the C32 and C320 wagon chassis (front of A/B? pillar) and engines (externally) are the ~same, there would be little to no modifications necessary, it's the only swap I'd consider.

The question is: are the assumptions about the chassis and external mount points of the powertrain correct?

Mercedes had to modify the front clip on the C-class chassis to get the v8 to fit in the C55. I imagine it would be a nightmare to install a C43 v8 engine in a v6 C240.

alanmb

What swap did he do? C32 powertrain -> C320 wagon?

I would never swap engines between a C32 and C320 - just buy a C32! The C-class wagon wasn't offered, for all practical purposes, as an AMG, but the guts of the car are the same, so wouldn't it be straightforward to install a C32 powertrain in a C320 wagon? Perhaps the wagon has a longer wheelbase? So, I'd need to use the driveshaft. Are the AMG and standard 5-speed autos the same externally?

tommy

He did the C240 Sedan --> C32 swap.

He's got a thread on here, so you should search for it. Michael doesn't really have a full writeup of everything, but there's some info there.

Hey, it was an aubergine (purple) C240, which also wasn't available in a C32.

IIRC, there is some beefing up of the tranny to handle the add'l power, and I wouldn't be surprised if the mounts were also different. But you're right, I would think that the mounting points would essentially be the same, so it should be possible. Though total up the costs and compare it to a used E55 wagon, which might start to look like a good option at that point.

Alswag

It's the exact same chassis on the exact same engine. Theoretically, it should be bolt-on with no modifications necessary (except for the manifold, the C32 uses a different manifold)
Though, I would just take the supercharger off a wrecked C32 and install it that way. Probably would be less costly than doing an entire swap.

Indeed. The C55 used the front end from the W209. Also, the C43 and the C55 use the same engine (M113), just with a different bore, manifold, and a few things here and there. My friends dad owns a C55 and his grille was cracked, so he ordered a regular W203 grille and it didn't fit.
Heck, I warned him. But he did it anyway.

Speaking of which, I would like to eventually attempt this project on my little coupey. I'd probably have the only C32 AMG coupe in Canada. Also now that I work at an indy, chances are it'll be a little easier to do.

alanmb

From what I've read about the AMG engine, there are a lot of internal differences between it and the stock 3.2 L engine. For one thing, at least, the compression ratio is lower on the AMG engine to accommodate the supercharger. The ECU programming would be a nightmare because of this too. I think the labor cost to swap the whole engine would work to be cheaper than the headaches (=time = money) from a supercharger install. (without a kit from an aftermarket company)

I did some searching today. The 3.2L AMG engines on ebay don't include the supercharger. I assume they're selling them separately. One engine, w/o sc, was <$2k. Here's an example parts car:

http://stores.ebay.com/B-and-R-Auto-...4.c0.m14&_vc=1

cvx

I am not sure where you live, but the C32 estate not super rare care here in Europe. Germany alone has 40 for sale right now (mobile.de), Sweden 7 (blocket.se) and Finland 8 (nettiauto.com). Hard to imagine half of the produced cars would be on sale now

Can't answer anything about the engine swap but $12k would be pretty bargain for it.

alanmb

Wow, thanks for the info about the C32 estates for sale in Europe. The 100 number is from the C-class wikipedia. Perhaps it's 100 each (C32 and C55) for the US market only?

I talked with my mechanic last night. At first, he warned me about some of the typical gotchas, most of which I had already factored into my decision to use the C32 sedan/estate pair for the transplant. He's talking to his friend, who's a Mercedes mechanic this weekend. Shopping around for parts, my low ball, bare bones swap is still in the $12k range. I don't have new paint and AMG bodywork mods in the budget right now. I'm contemplating keeping the exterior as stock as possible, albeit with bigger rubber, but probably not staggered, and not "summer" tires. I'm not auto crossing with it. If (when) I do get in a race, it will be a short stop light to stop light run - or an open highway roll on. Super sleeper - tons of fun! (I'd like to do the pulley and ecu mod though... but not at $3500(!))

alanmb

Just checked out some of the estates for sale on mobile.de! Great prices (9k EUR = $12.4k) and great cars! Hmm... Next questions I need to answer is: How difficult and expensive to ship to USA?

http://*******/d8Riek

Moviela

It is easy to ship to the USA, and not really expensive, but getting past the government roadblocks is a difficult journey.

alanmb

That's good news - the not really expensive part. I assume there are shipping companies who know how to navigate around the government roadblocks. I just need to find a good one. Have you imported a car to the US? How did you do it? Many thanks!

hanknum

And I thought I was the only one crazy enough to do this...

First take a look at this thread on w203 wagons:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ight=wagons+ho

C32 & C55 wagons were never brought into the US. I think your thoughts on the swap are pretty good. Externally, I think the engine and tranny are pretty much identical. I don't even think the wheelbase changed. I know there used to be an aftermarket kit that you could add a S/C to the existing C320 V6. It was supposed to add around 100hp so it would still be down a little to the C32. For me, I'd much rather do the swap than adding a S/C...OEM engineering I'm sure would be much better.

I've been wanting to do this for years, but with kids, new job, moving, and the rest of life happening, it has not come to fruition. If you are serious about this I might be interested in doing some sort of "two for one" deal with your mechanic. I'm sure once the R&D has been done for one car, then it would be easy to replicate. I'm in Santa Barbara, CA...where are you?

Let's chat sometime.

Henry

hanknum

Are you still around? Anymore thoughts on this?

glocati

Henry- I think you are going to have to jump on the grenade here, and pioneer this effort.

There's a thread over on Benzworld, where a guy dropped a SBC in a C240 sedan. He kept the stock sheet metal/front clip-proving you can drop a V8 in w/o going with the CLK front clip. Crazy- but do-able

All this said, you would certainly have the easiest time with a C32 conversion. I occasionally surf CraigsList and look for a wrecked C-32. Pretty sure you do the same.

hanknum

Happy New Year Greg.

I'm sure the labor would be somewhat intensive, but the job should be pretty straight forward. Once done, it should be pretty easy to replicate. The trick is to find a shop who can do it and then a couple or three guys to spread the cost. I'd love to undertake this job, but as you well know, kids and project cars don't mix very well. LMK, if you ever get serious about this and maybe we can work something out. Hi to the fam.

Henry

Eau_Rouge

Hotrod wagon? If you want luxury, power, manual trans, LSD, this might be for you.

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/show...&highlight=e39

tommy

I was thinking WRX 5-door, up pipe, intercooler, bump up the boost, etc....

The project under discussion here, I don't see as being worthwhile, though I would certainly follow the build.

glocati

Happy New Year to you as well ! Definitely get the projects and kids don't mix scenario. I don't even have time to do brake and oil jobs any more..

You do the same and let me know if you get close to doing this.. I think alanmb/OP may do it first.

Take care and let me know next time you're in Portland.

Greg

glocati

Rouge - that is COOL ! Thanks for the link.

glocati

I hear ya Tommy. It would be a labor of love thing for sure..

hanknum

Anyone know if it would be possible to bolt on a C32 supercharger onto a C320 motor? Just a thought...

Alswag

Yup! Completely possible. But for the amount of work you would have to do - along with custom fabrication with mounts and such - you might as well buy a C32 motor with a supercharger. They could usually be had for about 6 grand.

hanknum

Yeah, just a thought. I'd need wiring harness, ECU, as well as all kinds of other things that I don't know of.

Best to just find a wrecked C32 and do the swap.