Cintoman

My baby is being towed to an Indy shop. Sad day.

First time using the tow hook.

And in the last pic, it even looks like she's crying, with tears in her "eyes".

I'll update when I hear the news...

Cintoman

VVF

Nice rims!

Good luck with the repairs - hopefully minor.

Cintoman

Thank you. They're AMG replicas I bought new about 7 years ago. Not a single scuff/scrape/scratch on them. Cleaned inside and out weekly.

These are my Summer rims with Summer tires on them. Every November or so, I'll swap them out with my winter rims/tires, which are my OEM ones that came with the car. Those rims are the ones in my sig. Then in April, I'll put the Summer ones back on.

Cintoman

Glyn M Ruck

They are great wheels. It was Paul that persuaded me to fit to my old C240.

VVF

Do you guys remember who makes them and how much they weight? Thanks

Cintoman

That's right Glyn. I do remember our PM's from a long time ago. Wow.


I purchased them off eBay back in November 2007 from eBay seller eurotechwheels (Eurotech Luxury Wheels), and they're in California. I searched for them now, and they're no longer on eBay. They also had a web-site eurotechwheels.com, but when hitting that site, it redirects you to usarim.com. Checking out this site, it looks like they're the same guys. I browsed their site for Mercedes wheels, but it doesn't look like they have this style anymore. You can always check with them.

I'll go thru my invoices, info, and my back-and-forth PM's with Glyn to get some more specifics on them.

Cintoman

VVF

Thanks Cintoman! That's a comprehensive reply

I actually found the style in question on their website: http://www.usarim.com/wheels/mercede...eels-rims.html
Thanks for the pointer! They even have "two-piece" rims there, nice.

Glyn M Ruck

Paul's exact wheel style is no longer available ~ unfortunately. i.e CLK55, C55 style AMG IV.

I think they got into trouble with AMG. Paul's wheels have the correct spoke curl & perfect offsets & widths for the W203. Look better than genuine AMG IV's especially the fronts with greater dish than OE.

Cintoman

You're right Glyn. I do recall hearing something about how they were getting scrutinized by AMG because of how closely they resembled the genuine AMG IV's. I too prefer mine because my outer lip and dish are polished aluminum and the rest of the wheel is painted silver, whereas the genuine AMG wheels are all painted silver. Also, like you mentioned, the genuine wheels have a smaller dish width on the front lip, where mine have a larger dish.

Specifically, here are some specs and info I exchanged in PM's between Glyn and myself many years ago:

-------
These wheels do not have the ///AMG logo embossed on them. Also, the front wheel size is 1/2" larger width than OEM. So, OEM fronts are 7.5"x17" and OEM rears are 8.5"x 17". These are 8.0"x17" front and 8.5"x17" rear. So the fronts are a little wider.

Both the fronts and rears offsets are ET30.

The C55/CLK55 wheels have a smaller lip on the front wheels versus the rears. The fronts have say a 1/4" lip while the rears have about a 1" lip. On my car, the fronts and rears have the same 1" lip.

The other thing I preferred about mine is that the rim edge and lip are machined/polished, while the rest of the wheel is painted in that silver wheel color. The C55/CLK55 AMG wheels are all painted, including the rim edge and lip. I think the machined look on the edge/lip looks a bit nicer.
-------


Looking at usarim's site now, the only ones that closely approximate mine are the first wheel in the second row and the middle wheel in the second row. The former though have those screws along the outer rim, and only come in 8" width. Things I don't particularly like. However they also have the same inward curve to the twin spokes as mine and the AMG IV style.

The latter one looks similar, but if you notice the spokes, they don't have the inward curve to them, and there's no lip (polished or otherwise) to them. They also come in 8" widths only. If you look closely, there is what appears to be an //AMG logo on the bottom area of the middle part of the wheel. However, I'm sure it's not //AMG, but rather //AME or //AMC instead, as I've seen those styles around too.

Back in November 2007, I paid USD $648.00 including shipping. I think it was a great deal for them. This also included chrome plated lug bolts with locks. However, they sent me a set where all the bolts were the same length, and if I were to use them on the rear wheels, they would end up hitting the calipers. So I requested and received a full set of shorter bolts at no charge. +1 in my book for them looking out for their customer.

Cintoman

Cintoman

Minor update: Spoke with the shop. They're poking around and checking a few things, but nothing really substantial. I asked if they pulled the head out or the cam cover, but they haven't yet. They mentioned to pull the head out would need my authorization because it's an 8 hour job (really???) and would cost about USD $750 to do it. They suggested it might be cheaper to put a new engine in it, because we don't yet know the damage to mine. And the only way to know the damage is to pull the head off. I mentioned that it could possibly be just bent valves, and depending on what the chain did, new chain, guides, and tensioner.

So I guess my concern is with the options I potentially have right now:

1) Do I authorize the pulling of the head out, eat that cost, look at it, confirm it's just bent valves, do the work, put everything back together, and call it a day? A jumped chain & bent valves plus the $750 cost to pull the head out might be less expensive than the options below.

2) Do I authorize the pulling of the head out, eat that cost, look at it, confirm it's a total mess with bent/damaged everything, then suck up all this and get a new used engine?

3) Do I just get a new used engine?


He's going to put some pricing options together for me, and I should get this on Monday. Of course, I'm trying to go the least costly route.

Cintoman

VVF

4) find another shop? ...

About a year ago, one MB indy quoted me $1200 for chain replacement.
Another MB indy shop quoted me around $800 for chain replacement.

At least they can pull the valve cover and confirm it's the chain. (And assess the condition of camshaft sprockets which cost like $700 each)

I think pulling the head after the valve cover is off is just: 2 camshafts, and 8(?) head bolts.

Do you think your chain skipped on startup or while driving? Kinda sounds like the former. Then it's likely that the pistons are ok I'd say.

VVF

Aha, I notice the difference now.
As far as I remember, Glyn had the version with the screws on his car?
8'' all-around sounds good for tire life But I am not sure about the fit on the front. The offset is 32 vs 37 I believe for stock 7.5'' rims. They might both stick out and hit the strut

LILBENZ230

If I'm reading this thread correctly, I'd say otherwise. It sounds like the car had major driveability problems leading up to the no-start. That would lead me to believe it may have substantial damage. There's just no way to tell for sure. It's speculation.

Another note to anyone reading the thread - DO NOT believe shops, be it a dealer or an indy, that tells you timing chains do not fail on these cars. They are likely only quoting what would be common knowledge about timing chains. I ran into the same issues. These people are wrong in this case. INSIST on chain replacement.

Paul, I'm not sure what to say on whether or not to authorize a teardown.

VVF

But the car was starting.
As you've said (concerning your friend's Audi), if the valves are bent/chain broken, there is no compression in the cylinders and the car does not even start.
So I'd say the valves were not bent before the no-start condition.

Of course it is speculation I hope nobody regards us as fortune-tellers.
I am seriously speculating that it's the sprockets though... We'll see the actual reason if Paul decides to pull the valve cover.

Cintoman

My car started up fine and drove fine for about 1/4 mile. It was only after I slowed down at a stoplight that I noticed a slight shuddering. My A/C was on AUTO and it was running on max. When taking off when the traffic light turned green is when I started to experience the problem: no throttle response at all.

So it seemed fine with no issues at the initial startup of the day.

I ended up driving it in limp mode about 6 miles or so. Then stopped for about 1 hour while my son was at his karate class. Upon starting up again and driving back home there were no issues at all; the car drove beautifully. That's when I ended up hitting AutoZone to have them pull the codes. Then, driving the 4 miles back home from AutoZone, I experienced the same limp home issue. After getting home, I was able to start the car a couple more times, but each time, the startup didn't sound "right". Startup wasn't strong, meaning intial rev to about 2,000rpms, then dropping down to about 800rpms. Instead, it would start at about 500rpms then go up to about 800rpms. Always smooth though, no rough idle at all. It wasn't until the next morning when I tried starting up that it wouldn't.

Cintoman

Glyn M Ruck

I have not seen a case yet where rods were bent & pistons damaged other than minor marking. Yours could be different but unlikely.

Sometimes better the devil you know. If it was mine I would pull the head & then make a decision. Whether they recon your head with new valves or use an exchange unit is your choice.

As an example I would not fit a used engine without a new chain & tensioner. It's an unknown.

Good luck!

LILBENZ230

I agree. I would want to save the engine if possible because you know its history.

Cintoman

That's hopeful Glyn. My thinking is the same...have the head pulled out and see the damage, and if the stats are on my side, it'll be just the valves that are bent. I'm still shocked that pulling the head out is an 8 hour job. I'm communicating with another Indy to see what they have to say, and if they also say it's an 8 hour job.

Matt. I completely agree. I might get a used engine with 1/2 the mileage, but who know what its been thru. At least with mine, I know the history since the 13,025 miles it had on it when I bought it. With an engine swap, I feel that sooner or later, there's going to be some gremlins creeping up as a result of the swap. Better to keep it all original.

cm60k

Paul,

I'm fully agree to work with your exist Engine, you know every bolt in it,

you may put another Engine and having some issues after a while, if that happen, you will definitely hate the car then...!!

ZAYED,,

Cintoman

Hey Everyone,

So I called the Indy shop where my car is currently at, and spoke to the guy there. Because he was going to give me some pricing options, I hadn't yet authorized the 8 hour job to remove the head.

His determination after "checking some things" is that it's a "catastrophic engine damage." I don't know how he determined this without removing the head. His suggestions were as follows:

All prices are in USD. So get ready for

He found a 61K mile used engine, shipped for $4,300.00. Installation would be $1,323.00. I forgot to ask, so I don't know if this includes a timing chain/guide/tensioner replacement on the new used engine. But it does come with a 12-month warranty on labor and parts. That's reassuring.

If I wanted to keep my engine, a rebuild would run me about $6,500.00 NOT including the labor. This would include chain, guides, cam adjusters, valves, springs, rockers, the whole deal.

I am thinking either option is out of the question, as this is going waaay above 1/2 of the car's value. And what the hell is the point of paying over 6 thousand dollars, only to eventually sell the car in a year or two for maybe $7K or $8K if I'm lucky? Worse came to worse, I'd stab myself in the heart to destroy the many emotional ties I have with my car, and then part out everything. And honestly, it would take a couple of heart stabbings to get me to break my car into little tiny pieces and ship it to all you fine people all over the country/world that were interested in a piece of my car.

My other thinking is having the car towed back to my house, and spend the 1, 2, or 3 months it'll take, and do the work myself. Hogger's thread goes into great detail as to what he did. Cost him about $1,700 if I remember correctly. And the way I look at it, I'm somewhat mechanically inclined (In my mechanical life, I've replaced alternators, belts, hoses, radiators, t-stats, batteries, brakes/rotors, and have always done my own oil, brake fluid and coolant changes). I guess one way to look at it, is my engine is already "dead", how much worse can I make it?

I just can't see forking over that kind of money. But what kills me is that EVERY other aspect of my car is in impeccable condition. There is not a crumb of dirt on the seats or the floor, or the trunk. The engine compartment looks as new as it did on the showroom floor. And everything else is meticulous.

I had also thought instead that if I was going to spend $6K on work, I might as well just lease a new CLA250. $6K can get me a good 18 months' payments on a lease.

My whole intent prior to this issue happening was to hold onto my car for another 2 years, and by Spring 2017 or so, sell the car and purchase a Tesla Model E, which is scheduled to be out right around that time. The Model E (I know it's no longer going to be called this) is the newer smaller +/- USD $35,000 car to appeal more to the mass market, of which the current Model S is far outpriced.

Now, with this issue smacking me in the face, my ideas starting to lean me toward potentially leasing a new CLA250 for the next 2 years or so, and then, when the Model E is released, I turn in my lease and walk into a new Tesla.

At any rate, I'm still waiting to hear back from 2 other Indy shops to see if their prices are around the same as this place. If so, then I might go the same route as Hogger did.

I'm also going to follow up with the Indy shop it's currently at, to see what it would cost just to get a new head and valves installed as well as the timing chain. I can't see why they would need to rebuild everything else on my engine, when, like Glyn and others have mentioned, that it's likely just the head and valves that are gone. Potentially get my head planed, get some new valves, a chain, guide and tensioner, and call it a day.

As a final update for today, I called my local stealership to see what they had to say. Of course they'd have to look at it, but mentioned that they should be able to diagnose the problem within an hour or so (at $130.00/hr). From there, they could determine what the problem was, and what would be involved in repairing it. His quote: "It could cost $400.00 or $4,000.00". I'm thinking much more the latter. I'm also thinking it probably wouldn't be very productive, as many of you have already mentioned what the likely problem is (jumped chain/bent valves).

Oh, what to do....

Fun times.....

Cintoman

VVF

http://www.mercedesengines.net/prodd...C230Kompressor

I think he assumes the rods are bent, in that case the engine would need to be rebuilt from the ground up, but at $6k+ you can buy a used low-mileage one and replace the chain, as you said.

Sounds funny that he didn't tell you which things he checked. Probably checked how to rip you off more efficiently...

Glyn M Ruck

He can't assume "catastrophic engine damage." without removing the head & cranking the engine over to TDC on each cylinder & observing piston to deck height to check for bent rods.

The head must come off.

You need to go the Hogger route or get an Indy to follow the Hogger example for you.

I suppose one could take a rod through each plug hole & look for variation between cylinders at TDC. It's more difficult to be accurate. If all are the same you don't have a bent rod. There are no ways all rods would be bent equally.

cm60k

Agree with Glyn,

before spending $$$, head should to be opened, no any conclusion without that,,

open head & little patience are the KEY...>!<

ZAYED,,

Cintoman

Had another option just thrown my way as I was on my way to picking up my father-in-law so we could use his AAA membership to get my car towed back home. He has an Indy shop he's trusted for over 30 years. We went there, spoke with the owner, and he's the first guy I've spoken to who actually believed me and seen a stretched chain on these cars.

His suggestion was to replace the engine as well. He found an 81K mile engine with a 1 year/unlimited mileage parts and labor warranty on it. Shipped and installed would cost me USD $3,700.00, including a new chain on the donor engine.

When asked about redoing the head, replacing the valves, and installing a new chain on my existing engine, as this was likely the only issue with the car, he basically asked me "what if there's something else wrong, and now it'll cost even more?" I guess it's a valid point, but I did mention that the above were likely the only problems.

The car is back home again. However, with today's weather, I won't be able to remove the valve cover to see how the chain looks.

I guess I'm again unsure as to what I can/should do. Do I do all the work my self like Hogger did, spend around $1,700 or so, only to potentially run into a more serious issue on my hands? One that I might not be able to repair. Or do I just have another engine installed and be done with it? Then be comfortable knowing it has a one year warranty on it, and then sell the car within a year?

Cintoman

VVF

Well, since you have nothing to lose, might remove the valve cover and the head, check the piston deck height and make a decision as to installing the new engine.