C-Class (W203) 2001-2007, C160, C180, C200, C220, C230, C240, C270, C280, C300, C320, C230K, C350, Coupe
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P0340 and car in limp mode

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Old Jul 16, 2014 | 01:11 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by VVF
Well, since you have nothing to lose, might remove the valve cover and the head, check the piston deck height and make a decision as to installing the new engine.
Also good advice..

ZAYED,,
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Old Jul 18, 2014 | 06:15 PM
  #77  
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In your shoes, I'd part ways with the car in some form or fashion at this point. Be that selling it as is or parting it out. I loved my 05 C230, too. But when I put the pencil to the paper it no longer made financial sense. I still miss it, but I made the right choice. I was actively searching (and finding dead-ends) on getting my timing chain replaced when my A/C compressor went out ($1k repair). The car was worth about $6,000. Replacing the A/C and the timing chain was already 1/3 of the value. I chose to move on.

Could I have still driven it? Perhaps. But I think you're like me - I was not happy unless the car was perfect. And as I passed 100,000 miles that became an increasingly expensive proposition.
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Old Jul 18, 2014 | 08:47 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by LILBENZ230
In your shoes, I'd part ways with the car in some form or fashion at this point. Be that selling it as is or parting it out. I loved my 05 C230, too. But when I put the pencil to the paper it no longer made financial sense. I still miss it, but I made the right choice. I was actively searching (and finding dead-ends) on getting my timing chain replaced when my A/C compressor went out ($1k repair). The car was worth about $6,000. Replacing the A/C and the timing chain was already 1/3 of the value. I chose to move on.

Could I have still driven it? Perhaps. But I think you're like me - I was not happy unless the car was perfect. And as I passed 100,000 miles that became an increasingly expensive proposition.

I hear you Matt. I know exactly what you mean. And like you, if the car is not perfect, I'd hate myself for it.

My concern is that I'd need some form of transportation for at most the next 2 1/2 years (which would be when the new Tesla Model 3 would be coming out). I could sell it as is, get whatever money I could, but then I'm faced with buying some unknown car with an unknown history that could provide me with even greater repair opportunities than my C230. Say I'd get $3k for the car. What can I buy nowadays for that kind of money? A 150K mile 2003 Honda Civic? You'll never see me in that.

I could also sell the car, take the money and put it towards leasing say, a new CLA250. I was seriously considering that, because I could lease it for 2 years, then when the lease was over, turn it in, walk into a Tesla store and walk out with my new Model 3. But at the same time, that lease would cost me quite a bit over 2 years. Figure on at least $3K down payment, then at least $300/month for 24 months. That'd be over $10K towards a car I won't be keeping. $10K that could go towards the Tesla.

I could fix it, and hopefully any issues over the next couple years would be minor. And this is what I'm tending to lean towards. I put about 10K miles or so per year, so I'd be looking at, and crossing my fingers, that the next 25K miles would be pretty painless and easy on my wallet.

One thing is for sure. My days of owning cars for 8, 9, 10+ years are over, unfortunately.

At any rate, in talking to more mechanics, they're leaning towards replacing the engine as the least time consuming and, as such, the least expensive option.

I'm still hoping to take the valve cover off this weekend to see how the chain and cam adjusters look.

Cintoman
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Old Jul 19, 2014 | 03:21 AM
  #79  
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You really need to fix it as economically as possible for it to be worth anything. I don't see parting it out as being practical.
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Old Jul 19, 2014 | 08:27 AM
  #80  
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It sounds like you have a pretty good exit plan in place for your 05 C230 so maybe just replacing the engine is not such a bad idea after all. 25,000 miles is really not that much.
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Old Jul 29, 2014 | 10:17 PM
  #81  
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Cintoman any update on the issue with the engine?
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Old Aug 11, 2014 | 11:23 PM
  #82  
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^ +1
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Old Aug 20, 2014 | 11:24 PM
  #83  
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Hey Guys,

So very sorry about the lack of any updates, but I've been away for some time on business and hadn't really had much going on during this time.

Most of the people/shops I've spoken to have advised that the best course of action in terms of cost/time involved would be to replace the engine. As much as I'd hate to do this, considering how well I know the history of my engine and the way I've maintained it, I ended up coming to the conclusion that this is the best option for me at this time.

With that said, over the past few weeks I've been calling several reputable indy shops to see who could obtain a used engine and do the engine swap for me. I ended up finding a place close to me that was able to locate an 84,000 mile engine. The cost of the engine, labor involved, and including a 1 year parts and labor warranty is going to set me back about USD $3,700-$3,800. What set this shop apart from the others is that they are familiar with M-B's, and his price included the warranty; other shops were looking at another USD $800 for the warranty.

Prior to getting the car towed again, I ended up partially removing the valve cover to get a peek at the timing chain and cam adjuster sprockets. To my surprise, the chain looked fairly tight with no noticeable sag. But then again, it could just be the angle I was looking at it.

What was definitely noticeable, and proof of what the culprit was, turned out to be the cam adjuster sprockets. Specifically, on the intake side. I was at how badly worn some of the sprockets were!! Definitely noticeable. And some of them were worn down to mere nubs !! I took some pictures, and have included them here, but it looks worse in person.

The sprockets on the exhaust side look perfect however. So just the intake side is in horrendous shape. I think the only way these could get worn so badly would be due to a loose chain. So, despite not noticing any sag on the chain, it definitely has to be there for it to cause as much wearing on the intake sprockets as I noticed.

The car was towed last Thursday (8/14/14). I haven't spoken with the shop yet, but my understanding is that he does take his time.

He did mention that he's going to give the donor engine a good once over. But I'm not sure if there's anything specific I should mention that he should be on the lookout for that should be checked out. He did say that he can't really replace parts because this will void the warranty that's on the engine from the bone yard he purchased it from. I guess the 1 year warranty gives me some comfort there if anything should go wrong.

Enjoy the pictures.
- First pic - note the lack of any sag in the chain. I wasn't able to lift on the chain so there is likely some significant looseness in it.
- Remaining pics - note how worn the sprockets are on the intake side, but on the exhaust side they look sharp and pointy.

Any comments are definitely welcome.

Apologies again for the lapse in updating all of you.

Cintoman
Attached Thumbnails P0340 and car in limp mode-imag1217.jpg   P0340 and car in limp mode-imag1204.jpg   P0340 and car in limp mode-imag1215.jpg   P0340 and car in limp mode-imag1218.jpg   P0340 and car in limp mode-imag1248.jpg  

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Old Aug 21, 2014 | 12:27 AM
  #84  
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Ok, so my speculation about the sprockets was kind of right.
And to see the chain stretch you need to feel it on the tensioner side, because on top it's always tight like that afaik.

I think you made the right decision with the new engine. That sprocket itself is like $1k.
However, the new one might be a bomb with partially-worn chain/sprockets.
You're probably ok if you want to sell it before the warranty on the engine is up...

BTW, see your original CEL code - intake cam sensor. The teeth sheared, the chain skipped some teeth but [maybe] remained in tension, so you might only have the intake valves bent actually...

Last edited by VVF; Aug 21, 2014 at 12:39 AM.
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Old Aug 29, 2014 | 02:00 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Cintoman
Hey Guys,

So very sorry about the lack of any updates, but I've been away for some time on business and hadn't really had much going on during this time.

Most of the people/shops I've spoken to have advised that the best course of action in terms of cost/time involved would be to replace the engine. As much as I'd hate to do this, considering how well I know the history of my engine and the way I've maintained it, I ended up coming to the conclusion that this is the best option for me at this time.

With that said, over the past few weeks I've been calling several reputable indy shops to see who could obtain a used engine and do the engine swap for me. I ended up finding a place close to me that was able to locate an 84,000 mile engine. The cost of the engine, labor involved, and including a 1 year parts and labor warranty is going to set me back about USD $3,700-$3,800. What set this shop apart from the others is that they are familiar with M-B's, and his price included the warranty; other shops were looking at another USD $800 for the warranty.

Prior to getting the car towed again, I ended up partially removing the valve cover to get a peek at the timing chain and cam adjuster sprockets. To my surprise, the chain looked fairly tight with no noticeable sag. But then again, it could just be the angle I was looking at it.

What was definitely noticeable, and proof of what the culprit was, turned out to be the cam adjuster sprockets. Specifically, on the intake side. I was at how badly worn some of the sprockets were!! Definitely noticeable. And some of them were worn down to mere nubs !! I took some pictures, and have included them here, but it looks worse in person.

The sprockets on the exhaust side look perfect however. So just the intake side is in horrendous shape. I think the only way these could get worn so badly would be due to a loose chain. So, despite not noticing any sag on the chain, it definitely has to be there for it to cause as much wearing on the intake sprockets as I noticed.

The car was towed last Thursday (8/14/14). I haven't spoken with the shop yet, but my understanding is that he does take his time.

He did mention that he's going to give the donor engine a good once over. But I'm not sure if there's anything specific I should mention that he should be on the lookout for that should be checked out. He did say that he can't really replace parts because this will void the warranty that's on the engine from the bone yard he purchased it from. I guess the 1 year warranty gives me some comfort there if anything should go wrong.

Enjoy the pictures.
- First pic - note the lack of any sag in the chain. I wasn't able to lift on the chain so there is likely some significant looseness in it.
- Remaining pics - note how worn the sprockets are on the intake side, but on the exhaust side they look sharp and pointy.

Any comments are definitely welcome.

Apologies again for the lapse in updating all of you.

Cintoman
Cintoman any updates? Did you own this car from day one? how often did you change the oil in this car? did you use techron additive to clean valves? coolant change?
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Old Aug 29, 2014 | 02:42 AM
  #86  
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Hey jpman. The latest update from the mechanic was that it was going "under the knife" today (Thurs 8/28/14). He's had the car for about 2 weeks or so, but has been quite busy. Plus he does like to take his time from what I hear. It should be all set by next week some time.

I've own this car from about Day 395 or so. I bought it about a year and a month after it was put into service. Car was built in late April, 2005, sold and put into service in Sept 2005, and purchased by me in October 2006. It was originally a "corporate fleet lease" vehicle, and was leased to a "well known company" (dealership could not give me the name of the company) to a middle-manager/VP. So it was likely never abused, meaning no kids/pets/vomit in the car, as it was a business use vehicle. I bought it from California from a M-B dealership, and it was a Mercedes-Benz CPO - Certified Pre-Owned vehicle, having an extra 2 years in addition to the 4year/50,000 mile M-B warranty. I had it shipped cross-country to where I live in Rhode Island. When I bought it, it had 13,025 miles on it, and it looked 100% brand new.

I followed the normal M-B scheduled maintenance, but really messed up my dealership with the A-B Service because I insisted on having the oil changed much sooner than the 1 year/12,000 mile suggested service intervals. No techron added, but Mobil 1 was always used. And the oil/filter changes were done around every 7,000 miles or so. I took meticulous care of the car/engine, with the only issue being a CEL light on because of a bad thermostat, which I was going to change out the weekend my car died.

In fact, when I called the mechanic yesterday, he was telling me he couldn't believe how new the car looked. He specifically mentioned that my wheels/tires (summer wheels, but I've had since 2008, purchased new, and used only during the summer) looked like they've never been driven on the road !!

Hopefully I'll have another update by next week.

Cintoman
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Old Sep 8, 2014 | 06:36 PM
  #87  
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In the meantime, could running the car below the optimum operating temperature (bad thermostat) have contributed to the sprocket wear? Remember how Glyn always warns against using full power on a 'cold' engine...

That might also explain the epidemic of bad sprockets in Russia... Cold winter weather, takes dozens of minutes to reach the optimum temp, and they are essentially gunning the cold engines.
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Old Sep 8, 2014 | 07:26 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by VVF
In the meantime, could running the car below the optimum operating temperature (bad thermostat) have contributed to the sprocket wear? Remember how Glyn always warns against using full power on a 'cold' engine...

That might also explain the epidemic of bad sprockets in Russia... Cold winter weather, takes dozens of minutes to reach the optimum temp, and they are essentially gunning the cold engines.
Maybe Glyn can explain this
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Old Sep 30, 2014 | 10:12 AM
  #89  
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Hey Everyone,

Well, it's back from the dead !! After 1 1/2 months, I finally got my car back this weekend (9/27/14). I knew this guy took his time, but seriously? A new used engine was installed that had approximately 85,000 miles on it. I still don't have all the paperwork about the specifics on the engine, but he's going to get it to me once I square away the balance of the payment I owe him. Earlier last week, I took it out for a test drive, and it sounded great. Startup is perfect and nice and quiet. No chain rattle. No issues at all. Runs great.

He did want to keep the car for a few more days because he was having trouble "clearing out the monitors". Apparently, after disconnecting the battery for awhile, when you plug the battery back in, there are some computer "monitors" that need to be cleared, and until then, they store some codes. Nothing CEL-related, but he did say he was able to clear out 3 of the 7 monitor codes. He's been driving it for about a week, hoping they clear, but so far no luck.

So I ended up going by there this past Saturday, to which he said the codes were still present, but he figured I could drive it instead and hopefully, they'll clear up eventually. He mentioned some cars (other manufacturers) clear after 10-20, others might take a couple hundred miles. The codes need to be cleared because I need a state inspection on the car, and it won't pass with the codes still in the system.

I figured I'd let my wife take the car today (Monday) since she has about a 50 mile commute to work each way, nearly all highway.

I'm going to take it back to him tomorrow to see if that longer drive took care of it.

In the meantime, some new interesting issues have creeped up:

While driving home, my wife noticed the CEL came on. Great...it was off during my test drive, plus when I picked it up on Saturday and during all my drives this weekend. I hit AutoZone to have them pull the code, and it's the same P0128 - Coolant temperature/thermostat code I had way before my engine issue happened. I had given him a new thermostat to replace, since I was planning on doing the job before my engine died on me. Not sure if he replaced it or not. But if he didn't, it's interesting that this new engine is coming up with the same code.

While driving back home from AutoZone at night, I noticed that I could barely see anything ahead of me. I have the OEM Bi-xenon headlights, and I could tell the light cutoff line seemed closer to the front of the car than what I remembered. Thought it could have been just me not being used to my car, since it has been about 3 months since I've driven it. Got home, parked in front of my garage, shut the car, turned off the lights, turned them back on, started the car back up, and sure enough, the lights did not angle down then up to adjust for height. I had this problem about 4 1/2 years ago, and since it was under warranty, I brought it to the dealership. They replaced the front axle inclination sensor on the car. I think this might be related to him disconnecting the battery, because I noticed this post in the battery disconnect sticky where someone had the same issue: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ml#post1227846
Hoping there's no Rear SAM issues. I'm going to bring it up to him.

A/C is not blowing any cold air. It's blowing warm air. Not sure if removing/installing a new engine would cause loss of refrigerant. Mentioning it to him too.

Finally, and I know this is definitely NOT related to my engine swap, but while driving home from the shop on Saturday, I had no system messages. Then while slowing down for a light, I got the "brake wear - visit workshop" message. From my previous experience with this, I know my car only has 1 brake wear sensor (front-right wheel), so I guess it's time for front brakes again. I replaced the front brakes and rotors back on 8/8/2009 when it had 40,204 miles, so with my car now at 99,567 miles, I guess it's time to do them again. I checked the rotors and they feel smooth on both sides, so I may not need to replace the rotors this time. But I'm going to pull the wheels off to do a better visual check on them.

So I'm really happy to have my car back, but it looks like there's just a few issues I need to get resolved. Hopefully this won't take another month to get them all fixed.

Hope you all enjoy this latest update to my dreaded saga that began back in July !!

-- Cintoman
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Old Oct 3, 2014 | 10:02 PM
  #90  
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thanks for the update, if the engine has been replaced didn't the thermostat get replaced from the other car's engine anyways?
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Old Oct 7, 2014 | 07:45 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Preet
thanks for the update, if the engine has been replaced didn't the thermostat get replaced from the other car's engine anyways?
Right...he did replace the thermostat with the brand new one that I provided to him. So that's what I found strange. He ended up returning my thermostat and got a replacement one.

I picked up my car again today. All codes are now cleared on the car, which allowed it to pass the State inspection. He recharged the A/C, so it's blowing nice cold air.

The only outstanding issue now is with the headlights not self-adjusting. He spoke with a buddy of his that works at the local Mercedes-Benz dealership (where I always brought my car for warranty work). He believes the issue with the headlights is not with either the front axle or rear axle inclination sensor on the car, but rather that the car needs to be flashed. I never heard this to be a resolution to fix the headlights; always thought the inclination sensor would need to be replaced. At any rate, he's set up an appointment to have them take a look at it next Thursday. So I'll be dropping the car off again next Wed.

Driving home, the car feels great, and it's nice to be driving it once again. I'm going to see about picking up some Akebono Ceramic brake pads and replacing the front brakes at some point over the next week or so.

More to come I guess....

Cintoman

Last edited by Cintoman; Oct 7, 2014 at 07:47 PM. Reason: adding extra info
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Old Oct 7, 2014 | 11:41 PM
  #92  
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Congratulations Cintoman!
Glad you are back in W203 club - with the issues rectified, are you considering keeping the car a couple more years beyond the original plan, or do you still plan to get rid of it soon?
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Old Oct 8, 2014 | 02:18 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by VVF
Congratulations Cintoman!
Glad you are back in W203 club - with the issues rectified, are you considering keeping the car a couple more years beyond the original plan, or do you still plan to get rid of it soon?
Considering how much I missed my car, and enjoy driving it now that I have it once again, I'm likely going to hang onto it for at least another 1 year, which is how long the engine warranty will be on it. That'll bring me until around October 2015. Ideally, I'd like to keep it until about Spring 2017. Around this time is when Telsa's new Model III will be released. Then I would sell my car and jump into the Model III.

The tough point is that time between October 2015 and Spring 2017, when the engine warranty is done and I have no warranty coverage on anything. I guess over the next year or so, I'll see how much, if at all, the car is nickel and diming me. If it's not too bad, I'll keep it, but if it's costing me a lot in repairs, I'll sell it after the engine warranty is done.

-- Cintoman
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Old Oct 28, 2014 | 10:38 AM
  #94  
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The nearly 4 month ordeal is finally over...I was able to pick up my car 2 days ago, and everything is finally all set. The headlight issue was again the inclination sensor on the front that went bad. He ended up replacing it for me.

All-in-all, a torturous experience I hope to never again go thru with any of my cars, now and in the future.

On a good note I reached a nice milestone yesterday afternoon....Took 4 months longer and about USD $3700.00 in order to reach it, but nonetheless....

Enjoy
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Old Oct 28, 2014 | 10:02 PM
  #95  
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Good to see your car is back on the road
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