Another no cranck no start
12-23-2014, 08:41 AM
#26
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10 speed bicycle
However my goal is the quickest and most accurate diagnosis. I agree to check the easy stuff first, which if you look at my first post step 1 does the key turn and the cluster light up...maybe it took 10 seconds of your time?
Step 2 jump the relay with something as simple as a paperclip...maybe 2 minutes of your time?
Did the starter turn yes or no? If yes you have a bigger problem, if no then it could be the wiring or starter in which case go to town whacking away if you like...
12-23-2014, 10:26 PM
#28
Super Moderator
Recap. You tried a new relay. Was it known good?
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-23-2014 at 11:21 PM.
12-23-2014, 10:53 PM
#29
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Thread Starter
12-24-2014, 06:09 AM
#30
Super Moderator
I think it's time to get this car onto a Star. You could be heading for an EIS.
12-24-2014, 08:53 AM
#31
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10 speed bicycle
While the starter contact switch is not a common failure, it does fail from time to time. The only pain is you need to crawl under the car with a torx socket and remove the heat shield and then unplug the connector from the trans. If that is the issue the car will start with it unplugged.
If that does not cause the car to start, then Glyn is right you have no choice but to connect DAS.
If that does not cause the car to start, then Glyn is right you have no choice but to connect DAS.
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Jorge Lpz (10-09-2020)
12-24-2014, 11:32 AM
#32
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Few questions
A) Can I run the car with the jumper for 10 miles (this is how far an independent shop I would like to take the car is)
B) In addition I want to start the car and run it long enough (5 minutes) to plug my OBD II reader (before a STAR diagnose) Maybe I'm able to find something (I'm optimistic at this time)
C) If the car starts with the connector unplugged then what? do I need to replace the plug in the transmission?
D) Can some one explain EIS - This is what I found out
E) This is a lien car I bought and it did not come with the key therefore I bought a new key from the dealer (all coded per the VIN) Would this be the problem that the new key need to be sync to the car? Also the Key turned freely no problem on locked steering or anything
Thank you all for walking me through these issues.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
A) Can I run the car with the jumper for 10 miles (this is how far an independent shop I would like to take the car is)
B) In addition I want to start the car and run it long enough (5 minutes) to plug my OBD II reader (before a STAR diagnose) Maybe I'm able to find something (I'm optimistic at this time)
C) If the car starts with the connector unplugged then what? do I need to replace the plug in the transmission?
D) Can some one explain EIS - This is what I found out
E) This is a lien car I bought and it did not come with the key therefore I bought a new key from the dealer (all coded per the VIN) Would this be the problem that the new key need to be sync to the car? Also the Key turned freely no problem on locked steering or anything
Thank you all for walking me through these issues.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Last edited by amcink; 12-24-2014 at 12:13 PM.
12-25-2014, 01:41 PM
#33
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Thread Starter
New update!!!!
The car now will not start. With the jumper the car was starting I started several times in other to hear the engine today started the car again with the jumper and I let it run for 5 minutes I turned the heater (was checking is things were working properly) the only thing that was not working were the wiper.
After turning the heater for about a minute smoke came in the cabin therefore I turn it off. After this the car did not start I could still hear the starter or the solenoid turning but not engaging. there are no codes on the obd scanner but some of the indicateded sections were blinking. Finally I was able to test the gears to move the car a little bit.
Check all the rest of the fuses and they are OK the only item I found out is thst fuse #58 was a 10 amp I double check the chart and found out that is suppose to be a 40amp therefore i change it. Incredible the 10amp was not blown
Any help?
The car now will not start. With the jumper the car was starting I started several times in other to hear the engine today started the car again with the jumper and I let it run for 5 minutes I turned the heater (was checking is things were working properly) the only thing that was not working were the wiper.
After turning the heater for about a minute smoke came in the cabin therefore I turn it off. After this the car did not start I could still hear the starter or the solenoid turning but not engaging. there are no codes on the obd scanner but some of the indicateded sections were blinking. Finally I was able to test the gears to move the car a little bit.
Check all the rest of the fuses and they are OK the only item I found out is thst fuse #58 was a 10 amp I double check the chart and found out that is suppose to be a 40amp therefore i change it. Incredible the 10amp was not blown
Any help?
Last edited by amcink; 12-25-2014 at 03:02 PM.
12-25-2014, 07:50 PM
#34
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2017 GLC300, 2013 C250 Coupe (sold), 2008 CLK 550 Cabrio (sold), 2002 C240 Sedan (sold)
Very interesting thread. please keep us posted. Merry Christmas.
12-25-2014, 09:04 PM
#35
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I decided to move forward and take the starter out and taking it to Autozone to rested. I need this to be running correctly in order to test the connector from the transmission in order to continue forward
12-26-2014, 03:36 AM
#36
Junior Member
Thread Starter
MB Tech or Glyn
I found these post and it relates the a CDI software upgrade and a re-SCN solved the issue. Any thoughts?http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...mittent-2.html
I found these post and it relates the a CDI software upgrade and a re-SCN solved the issue. Any thoughts?http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w211...mittent-2.html
12-26-2014, 10:26 AM
#37
Super Moderator
I know of no start authorisation glitches on Gasoline models that is software related. But I don't pretend to know everything. Harry (Diesel Benz) is very knowledgeable.
Whatever. You need to get the car onto a Star.
Whatever. You need to get the car onto a Star.
12-27-2014, 11:13 AM
#38
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10 speed bicycle
Sorry been out and about for the holidays...
As stated before, you are at the point where you need DAS. As of now you are likely spinning your wheels with diagnosis.
As stated before, you are at the point where you need DAS. As of now you are likely spinning your wheels with diagnosis.
01-02-2015, 07:49 PM
#40
Junior Member
Thread Starter
UPDATE....
I install a reused starter from a 2012 C230 got it for $50 and 6 month warranty..
Car start normal with the transmission connector disconnected!!!!!!!!!!
I went and disconnected the transmission connector and it was typically soak in oil (see photos)
I went and starter the car normal with the fuse and relay on( not with the jumper) and the car starter normal and is running nice!!
I cleaned the connector s and the inside as much as possible with electrical connector spray and let it soak and dry for 7 minutes then I reconnected and the car does not crank or start. Therefore I think is something to do with the immobilizer.
Any thoughts
I install a reused starter from a 2012 C230 got it for $50 and 6 month warranty..
Car start normal with the transmission connector disconnected!!!!!!!!!!
I went and disconnected the transmission connector and it was typically soak in oil (see photos)
I went and starter the car normal with the fuse and relay on( not with the jumper) and the car starter normal and is running nice!!
I cleaned the connector s and the inside as much as possible with electrical connector spray and let it soak and dry for 7 minutes then I reconnected and the car does not crank or start. Therefore I think is something to do with the immobilizer.
Any thoughts
01-03-2015, 12:30 PM
#41
Super Moderator
Have you moved the transmission selector around multiple times? Has fluid wicked up the TCU harness to the TCU under the passenger kick plate?
As mentioned earlier you might have a damaged microswitch or conductor plate in the transmission.
You need to get the car onto a Star.
As mentioned earlier you might have a damaged microswitch or conductor plate in the transmission.
You need to get the car onto a Star.
11-08-2017, 02:47 AM
#42
Let step back and analyze your whole situation here. Now I am going to assume (and I really don't like to assume when diagnosing 
) that when you say no crank no start that the key turns in the EIS and that all the accessories and cluster illuminates...is that correct? Also I will assume this is a US spec vehicle as you make reference to "Autozone"
Further for some terminal designations in my description, please also reference Bosch terminal designations here:
http://www.type2.com/library/identifi/bosterm.htm
So lets begin assuming all previous statements...
We are working on a 2003 203 with M271 that will not crank or start but key turns in the EIS. This confirms that fuse 31 cannot be blown as this fuse provides circuit 30 to EIS, steering column module, and steering angle sensor...check
Now the next easiest check is to remove the relay N10/1kS and take a jumper wire and jump terminal 30 and 87 of the relay socket on the SAM N10/1. This should allow the starter to crank with the key on, if it cranks this confirms the starter, wiring, and fuse is ok. Now you need to look at the two measures listed below. There is one part where you state no power to N10/1f52, that is correct as it will only have power while the key is in the crank position. If it does not crank, then you need to look at what was just mentioned.
I am not sure what diagnosis tool you are using, but if you were using DAS and you have no DTC's but can communicate with ME, then that confirms fuse 57 is ok as this powers the ME and you would have no communication along with many additional CAN codes from other control units...check
Next step using DAS would be to check drive authorization of ME, ETC, ESM, and EIS. All those control units should say yes. If not then ou would need to look into the control unit not providing Drive auth. Assuming that is all ok...check
Now we need to look at the actual values in ETC (transmission). There is one value in particular we want to pay attention to and that is Y3/6s1 - this is our starter relay cutout switch which is part of the contact plate in the transmission. A simple check for this is unplug the round connector at the trans and the vehicle will now start (trans of course will be in limp home mode). This part is known for various failures, but if that checks ok then...check
Hope that helps!
) that when you say no crank no start that the key turns in the EIS and that all the accessories and cluster illuminates...is that correct? Also I will assume this is a US spec vehicle as you make reference to "Autozone"Further for some terminal designations in my description, please also reference Bosch terminal designations here:
http://www.type2.com/library/identifi/bosterm.htm
So lets begin assuming all previous statements...
We are working on a 2003 203 with M271 that will not crank or start but key turns in the EIS. This confirms that fuse 31 cannot be blown as this fuse provides circuit 30 to EIS, steering column module, and steering angle sensor...check
Now the next easiest check is to remove the relay N10/1kS and take a jumper wire and jump terminal 30 and 87 of the relay socket on the SAM N10/1. This should allow the starter to crank with the key on, if it cranks this confirms the starter, wiring, and fuse is ok. Now you need to look at the two measures listed below. There is one part where you state no power to N10/1f52, that is correct as it will only have power while the key is in the crank position. If it does not crank, then you need to look at what was just mentioned.
I am not sure what diagnosis tool you are using, but if you were using DAS and you have no DTC's but can communicate with ME, then that confirms fuse 57 is ok as this powers the ME and you would have no communication along with many additional CAN codes from other control units...check
Next step using DAS would be to check drive authorization of ME, ETC, ESM, and EIS. All those control units should say yes. If not then ou would need to look into the control unit not providing Drive auth. Assuming that is all ok...check
Now we need to look at the actual values in ETC (transmission). There is one value in particular we want to pay attention to and that is Y3/6s1 - this is our starter relay cutout switch which is part of the contact plate in the transmission. A simple check for this is unplug the round connector at the trans and the vehicle will now start (trans of course will be in limp home mode). This part is known for various failures, but if that checks ok then...check
Hope that helps!
The procedure describing how disconnecting the round connector to check the started relay cutout, is similar to what I have done:
I checked the 13 pin connector at the transmission; no leaks.I checked my fuses and all of them are fine.
Tested the relays and they are good.
Checked for corroded, damaged connections and wires and they are good.
I removed the TCM from the passenger side to see if there were any ATF: there is any.
With the TCM disconnected I thought of turning on the switch for the computer to detect it was not there and after reconnecting it, and turning the switch on it would reset something.
So, with the TCM disconnected and the shifter in Park, opened the switch to the on position, but decided to give it a try, and to my surprise the engine started right away.
The dash message said NO MALFUNCTION, and there was no check engine light.
I left it running for awhile and then thought what would happen if I connected the TCM.
I connected it and the car kept running with no warning messages or lights.
I kept it running some more.
Then I turned it off.
Tried to start it again and would not start.
Since there are two connectors, I tried to figure out which side was causing the problem, I reconnected the right side connector (I think is for data communication).
The car started; NO MALFUNCTION, no check engine light.
Moving the shifter won't engage gears and won't show shifter position on dash.
Turned the car off, moved the shifter to R, car won't start.
Moved the shifter to P, car started.This second time, the check engine light turned on, but NO MALFUNCTION MESSAGE on dash.
Connected Creader VIII. It showed P6000 Serial Communication Link (I figured because TCM is unplugged)Also the scan showed 8 errors related to solenoids, communication.
With the engine running, connected the left connector.
With both connectors on TCM, shifter position shown on dash, NO MALFUNCTION, check engine still on.
Cleared fault memory.
Scanner shows NO DTC's.
Moved shifter to R and D, wont engage.
Turned the car off.
Tried to start car again, it would not start. NO MALFUNCTION message.
Tried disconnecting the right connector, leaving the left one in place (I think is has to do with the solenoids).
The car started, and pretty much the same behavior than when I did it with the right connector in place and the left one removed.
In summing up:
The car would not start if the TCM is connected.
It will start if I disconnect both of them or if I leave just one of the two connected.
I am completely lost; at first I thought it could be the shifter that had failed, then with the TCM acting weird, I was almost putting the blame on it. But I have been reading about bad solenoids, bad conductor plate, etc.
What leaves me without a clue, is that it would not show any codes or malfunctions when I get it to start with the TCM disconnected, neither when I connect the TCM while running. It idles and revs ok, but it would not engage in gear and when the TCM is connected it would not start.
As I said before, the connector is dry and there is no ATF at the TCM.
If there are no codes, neither Malfunction messages, would the STAR be able to find if I have a problem with the starter relay cutout switch, a solenoid, or the contact plate? How accurate would it be to conclude that I need to replace the cutout switch?
Thanks in advance for any help I could get.
Last edited by lecha; 11-09-2017 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention another symptom that could help diagnosis.
08-07-2019, 11:25 PM
#43
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C32
No crank when hot.
Facing a problem with intermittent hot no crank on a C32. Has happened about 6 times in the past 1 month.
When it is cold or it has rested 30min to 45min, it starts up fine and the runs well and normal.
All dash lights and dash indicators are on like in a normal start. In P position as well. No fault codes at all when tested at an indie with Mercedes STAR.
An earlier diagnosis was the electronic ignition switch which the indie saw a fault code. Was then sent to a dealer who after checking confirmed. So the EIS was replaced. But the problem recurred after about a week.
Also in a bid to eliminate the issue. I bought a used starter and solenoid and had it serviced and then installed, the problem remained. Also changed the starter relay too.
The indie is now stumped as it cannot be reproduced while in the shop and he would prefer not to continue guessing and replacing components.
Anyone with further ideas with this intermittent no crank when hot. Given that starter, solenoid, relay and EIS has been replaced and the symptoms are still the same. It starts up every time for the last 6times after about 35mins rest on average. I have tried to move the shifter to D and back to P when unable to crank and it does not do anything.
It never happens when engine is cold. Battery seems fine as it’s 12.5v
When it is cold or it has rested 30min to 45min, it starts up fine and the runs well and normal.
All dash lights and dash indicators are on like in a normal start. In P position as well. No fault codes at all when tested at an indie with Mercedes STAR.
An earlier diagnosis was the electronic ignition switch which the indie saw a fault code. Was then sent to a dealer who after checking confirmed. So the EIS was replaced. But the problem recurred after about a week.
Also in a bid to eliminate the issue. I bought a used starter and solenoid and had it serviced and then installed, the problem remained. Also changed the starter relay too.
The indie is now stumped as it cannot be reproduced while in the shop and he would prefer not to continue guessing and replacing components.
Anyone with further ideas with this intermittent no crank when hot. Given that starter, solenoid, relay and EIS has been replaced and the symptoms are still the same. It starts up every time for the last 6times after about 35mins rest on average. I have tried to move the shifter to D and back to P when unable to crank and it does not do anything.
It never happens when engine is cold. Battery seems fine as it’s 12.5v
07-16-2021, 07:54 AM
#44
Let step back and analyze your whole situation here. Now I am going to assume (and I really don't like to assume when diagnosing ) that when you say no crank no start that the key turns in the EIS and that all the accessories and cluster illuminates...is that correct? Also I will assume this is a US spec vehicle as you make reference to "Autozone"
Further for some terminal designations in my description, please also reference Bosch terminal designations here:
http://www.type2.com/library/identifi/bosterm.htm
So lets begin assuming all previous statements...
We are working on a 2003 203 with M271 that will not crank or start but key turns in the EIS. This confirms that fuse 31 cannot be blown as this fuse provides circuit 30 to EIS, steering column module, and steering angle sensor...check
Now the next easiest check is to remove the relay N10/1kS and take a jumper wire and jump terminal 30 and 87 of the relay socket on the SAM N10/1. This should allow the starter to crank with the key on, if it cranks this confirms the starter, wiring, and fuse is ok. Now you need to look at the two measures listed below. There is one part where you state no power to N10/1f52, that is correct as it will only have power while the key is in the crank position. If it does not crank, then you need to look at what was just mentioned.
I am not sure what diagnosis tool you are using, but if you were using DAS and you have no DTC's but can communicate with ME, then that confirms fuse 57 is ok as this powers the ME and you would have no communication along with many additional CAN codes from other control units...check
Next step using DAS would be to check drive authorization of ME, ETC, ESM, and EIS. All those control units should say yes. If not then ou would need to look into the control unit not providing Drive auth. Assuming that is all ok...check
Now we need to look at the actual values in ETC (transmission). There is one value in particular we want to pay attention to and that is Y3/6s1 - this is our starter relay cutout switch which is part of the contact plate in the transmission. A simple check for this is unplug the round connector at the trans and the vehicle will now start (trans of course will be in limp home mode). This part is known for various failures, but if that checks ok then...check
Hope that helps!
) that when you say no crank no start that the key turns in the EIS and that all the accessories and cluster illuminates...is that correct? Also I will assume this is a US spec vehicle as you make reference to "Autozone"Further for some terminal designations in my description, please also reference Bosch terminal designations here:
http://www.type2.com/library/identifi/bosterm.htm
So lets begin assuming all previous statements...
We are working on a 2003 203 with M271 that will not crank or start but key turns in the EIS. This confirms that fuse 31 cannot be blown as this fuse provides circuit 30 to EIS, steering column module, and steering angle sensor...check
Now the next easiest check is to remove the relay N10/1kS and take a jumper wire and jump terminal 30 and 87 of the relay socket on the SAM N10/1. This should allow the starter to crank with the key on, if it cranks this confirms the starter, wiring, and fuse is ok. Now you need to look at the two measures listed below. There is one part where you state no power to N10/1f52, that is correct as it will only have power while the key is in the crank position. If it does not crank, then you need to look at what was just mentioned.
I am not sure what diagnosis tool you are using, but if you were using DAS and you have no DTC's but can communicate with ME, then that confirms fuse 57 is ok as this powers the ME and you would have no communication along with many additional CAN codes from other control units...check
Next step using DAS would be to check drive authorization of ME, ETC, ESM, and EIS. All those control units should say yes. If not then ou would need to look into the control unit not providing Drive auth. Assuming that is all ok...check
Now we need to look at the actual values in ETC (transmission). There is one value in particular we want to pay attention to and that is Y3/6s1 - this is our starter relay cutout switch which is part of the contact plate in the transmission. A simple check for this is unplug the round connector at the trans and the vehicle will now start (trans of course will be in limp home mode). This part is known for various failures, but if that checks ok then...check
Hope that helps!
this is an old post,but maybe you can still help.
i can the same issue on C240-2005, but after jumping the relay S, car just crank but not start..your help will be very usefull.
thanks
01-15-2022, 11:22 PM
#45
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The 2003 E320
Need help
I'm having the same kind of problem so I've tried this I've run a hot wire to my starter and my car cranks fine and runs fine but when I cut it off I still cannot crank it with the key
10-01-2022, 08:09 AM
#46
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2003 C230K Coupe Orion Blue
Time to bump this thread. My turn. 
Everything was fine until halfway through the day when I turned the key and the car cranked a single turn and abruptly stopped. Dead silence. Now there is no crank no start. The car started and ran fine 10 minutes earlier.
Battery is OEM and 2 years old and shows 12.3V. I don't see any voltage drop at all when turning the key to position 3. No electrical errors in the dash so I assume the battery is fine.
The starter relay is actually quite easy to test as there are 3 of the same relay (confirmed with the same PN) inside the front SAM. I swapped them around and tried all 3. No joy. I can hear a distinct click from the SAM when turning the key to position 3 for all the relays.
Checked fuses 31, 52, 57. All are good. Replaced fuse 52 with a 20A fuse since I had everything apart.
At this point I'm going to assume the starter has died. Not bad for 19 years and 246k km.
Any special tricks or gotchas I should know about before attempting to tackle this one? I have the WIS document. According to the official document, the supercharger intake muffler has to come out which is a real pita. However, the guy in the video below managed to wiggle the starter out without having to do so. He also mentioned that the steering column connecting shaft doesn't have to be removed at all.
Any recommendations for which part to buy? The choices seem to be OEM/dealer (crazy expensive), aftermarket remanufactured Bosch, aftermarket remanufactured Denso, and aftermarket brand new Valeo (cheapest by 30% compared to Bosch/Denso).
The dealer computer shows PN 005-151-39-01-84 but searching online I also find 005-151-39-01 (missing the "84" at the end). Does this one work the same?
Thanks in advance.
Everything was fine until halfway through the day when I turned the key and the car cranked a single turn and abruptly stopped. Dead silence. Now there is no crank no start. The car started and ran fine 10 minutes earlier.
Battery is OEM and 2 years old and shows 12.3V. I don't see any voltage drop at all when turning the key to position 3. No electrical errors in the dash so I assume the battery is fine.
The starter relay is actually quite easy to test as there are 3 of the same relay (confirmed with the same PN) inside the front SAM. I swapped them around and tried all 3. No joy. I can hear a distinct click from the SAM when turning the key to position 3 for all the relays.
Checked fuses 31, 52, 57. All are good. Replaced fuse 52 with a 20A fuse since I had everything apart.
At this point I'm going to assume the starter has died. Not bad for 19 years and 246k km.
Any special tricks or gotchas I should know about before attempting to tackle this one? I have the WIS document. According to the official document, the supercharger intake muffler has to come out which is a real pita. However, the guy in the video below managed to wiggle the starter out without having to do so. He also mentioned that the steering column connecting shaft doesn't have to be removed at all.
Any recommendations for which part to buy? The choices seem to be OEM/dealer (crazy expensive), aftermarket remanufactured Bosch, aftermarket remanufactured Denso, and aftermarket brand new Valeo (cheapest by 30% compared to Bosch/Denso).
The dealer computer shows PN 005-151-39-01-84 but searching online I also find 005-151-39-01 (missing the "84" at the end). Does this one work the same?
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by slammer111; 10-02-2022 at 03:00 PM.
04-16-2023, 01:35 PM
#47
It's my turn. 2004 W203 C240 4matic M112 engine. I have all the symptoms described.... My car turns the EIS all the way but no crank and no start. However I can jump it via the purple starter wire or by jumping the starter relay sockets. But it doesn't start from the key. What do I need to check?
MBtech1098 and amcink your help is needed
MBtech1098 and amcink your help is needed
