loungeliz

Well with all the snow we have been getting, I'm sure there are lots of others out there with observations of their cars performance in the snow.

Last winter driving my C230 with all seasons was terrible! Got stuck in the snow too many times. Never thought RWD in the C230 would have such bad traction (I guess it is just too light in the back...). So this winter I got winter tires (Dunlop Graspic).

With lots of fresh snow falling in the last couple of days, I have had ample opportunity to compare driving in my wife's Saturn L, which she got in Aug03, with horrible Firestone Crapfinity tires to my C230 with winter tires. I'd have to say hands down that a FWD car with bad tires offers much better traction in snow than the C230 with winter tires (and I drove both with ESP on and off).

Right about now I miss my Ford Expedition. Now that was a beast. So big and heavy, it didn't even need to be 4WD. I never had to switch it out of RWD to 4WD unless I wanted to park it on a really big snow mound. Ah well, just venting... I'm just tired of shovelling and driving in snow.

Keithb

I've driven both RWD and FWD through many winters and I continue to come back to RWD.

I think a lot of it has to do with what you grew up with - that first experiences sliding around in a RWD are pretty hard to un-learn. Even when I'm not paying attention, I automatically correct if I start to slide with RWD.

I really believe in good winter tires (not all-seasons), I have run Bliazzaks on my Mustang for almost 7 years now and the difference was like nite and day. I think the biggest problem with most people is that they just plain try to drive to fast in the winter - people - there's no traction on snow - slow down...

tuscanraider

First of all you CAN have traction on snow with the right tires, like your Blizzaks, I have GoodYear Ultra Grips, and they are good too.
Its the ice that you have to worry about.

Now come my questions:


I thought only girls drove V6 Mustangs, and why would you try to tune it? Why not just go for a V8? make a fast car faster, no?

Secondly, if you have a C-Class as a daily beater like I do, why would you try to drive the Mustang in the snow? Put it in the garage and wait for spring or nice weekends.........

I dunno, just asking how you do things up North....

taylor192

Traction is misleading, you must decide what you want - stop or go? In snow I'd rather have stop than go.

The sports coupe is horrible to get going, yet fairly easy to stop. My old 4WD Dodge pickup was great for go in the snow, yet if you had to stop, better hope there's a soft snow bank to stop you!

That's the myth everyone has about FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD - its all the same under braking, none offer an advantage to stopping when conditions are slippery and the advantage in acceleration usually gives people a false sense of added traction.

Keithb

It's mainly that I bought the car cuz it was a convertible, it's really not bad if you do the right mod's. You should see http://www.3.8mustang.com and check out some of the numbers guys are getting with decent mod's. (btw I have had 4 Mustangs, 2 with V8's - 86 5.0 and a 76 302 and 2 six cyls - the 96 and a 66).


The Mustnag has been my daily driver year round since I got it (1996). It's only recently that I got the C320, and I'm trying not to put a whole slew of KM's on the Benz too early....

Buellwinkle

I've driven both in 60 degree winters and 90 degree summers and I get the same traction in both conditions. Once it rained and I notice a little wheel slip during heavy acceleration from a standing start. But that's so rare I don't worry about it.

sleepygeneral

hahahha in sunny cali, never seen a day of snow...i got the tc for the light drizzle though....

loungeliz

For you boys and girls that have not had the pleasure of seeing snow yet. The balcony swing is free if you want to enjoy some some.

I just took this pic of my 3rd floor balcony, this is the type of snow I'm talking about...

<img src="http://www.chin-a-young.com/pics/balconyswing.jpg" border="0" alt="">

GDawgC220

I've driven FWD, AWD, 4WD and RWD. I can say, RWD take some practice to get use to, especially with all seasons. I run my car 365 days a year and thru all seasons. I've gotten use to driving in the snow by now (my 3rd winter season) and just gotta practice taking off and such. Obviously, 4WD and AWD have the upper hand on taking off from stops and FWD.

Braking tho, I can say that our ML definately brakes better in the snow than our Quattro A6. I've tried braking in a parking lot with the Audi and the ML. ML brakes much faster and stable than the Audi, while the audi take a little longer to stop. My car, heh, that takes a little longer than the both of them. Guess all depends on how your brakes are, lol.

If i had a choice, I'd probably take the AWD or 4WD over my RWD, but i'm so use to it now, doesn't make a difference...well, except when I gotta take off on hills

Keithb

I agree, the Benz is way better braking (not just the ABS - it just seems to stop better even in the snow, than my Mustang ever has.)

I have been driving both cars this winter and the C320 is waaaay better - I love the ESP in the winter - keeps me from getting myself into some nasty trouble. In my 20+ years of driving in winter in Canada - this is the safest I've ever felt. (Yup I have driven a 4X4)

underwhirled

I have just had the experience of driving my car on a light snow covered road. I have to say the I can't imagine any car handling worse than my C230 coupe. It handles worse than civic or a tempo - both of which had all seasons and crappy brakes.

I've driven twice on snow now and I've actually decided to not drive it in inclement weather (snow). I've already told everyone that I never expected a car to handle like this - ever.

And as for stopping. It won't do it. I can be going 5 miles an hour, a full block-and-a-half from a stop sign, on a level road, and I bet I won't be able to stop the car in time.

I've actually been trying to find a solution to this problem, but I don't think that any solution will offer much improvement. Other than that the car is wonderful.

GDawgC220

Hmm...honestly, all the c-classes i've driven in the snow handle fine for me. c220, c230 kompressor, c320, all with just all-seasons, stock.

even the heavy @$$ s500 handles pretty well in the snow here with all-seasons.

braking, acceleration are all good. just have to take it easy and it will make it thru.

Keithb

That's what happens without proper winter tires. Just for a yuck this year, I tried to drive in the first snow fall with the stock 17" Continental whatever's that came stock on my car - it was a disaster - those tires (and most squatty performance tires) suck in the snow.

GDawgC220

you have the c7 wheel package right? those are sport/summer tires on that package, if I remember correctly. The Conti all-seasons handle just fine in snow here in New England.

Keithb

Yeah - I'm talkin about the Conti summers... I have Firestone Firehawk SZ50's on my Mustang for summer, and they were almost drivable when I tried them one year in the first snowfall. No way I'd use either for the winter, but it's sometimes fun to play a bit

GDawgC220

hehe...i've love sliding around with my car in parking lots. so fun, as long as it's safe

Keithb

Try having that kind of fun in a FWD! (Plus FWD suck with torque steer and all the other nasty s***...)

GDawgC220

i've tried with a mini-van...lol. doesn't do it, or it does it much differently. RWD definately much better

mctwin2kman

I have ContiExtremes on mine and it is good in the snow. Not as good going as stopping but it can be done. My 190E is much better and I dirve that instead. Just to save the coupe from getting hit. Plus it is more easy to control when having fun.

Lynn

Between the ESP, ASR, and snow tires, the car is absolutely fabulous on snow and ice. I have never understood the attraction of FWD. Personally I think FWD is the biggest phucking joke ever perpetrated on the car buying public.

Outland

I recently got to 'compare' my coupe, first riding on its C7s-then winters in the rear only, against some other cars over two days of a recent snowstorm.

A few observations in 6inches of fresh snow....

The Coupe on C7's is frightening in terms of getting moving. The ESP system works so well once you are underway, that the car handled just fine. Getting stuck is rather likely though, should you have to stop, and then go up even a mild, but slippery incline. With a pair of winter tires on the rear only, the car moves out much better, but it plows hard in turns- stopping and normal handling remain great.

The Lumina I drove in the same snowstorm, had goodyear Eagle M+S tires- and easily outpaced the C7 Coupe in the snow. Stopped good, and handled like you expect FWD to in the snow(sliding sideways when you accel hard).

My Jeep can usually go thru most snow just in RWD. I still put it in 4WD a lot- mostly to keep the lever from seizing from lack of use . When in 4WD it accellerates easily in snow. Braking however, isn't as good as the coupe(winter tires) or the Chevy.

My wife has a Grand Cherokee w/quadra drive- and it is so good in snow(stopping and starting) that it could drag the coupe and my jeep in tow while still going thru whatever you can throw at it.

Mike T.

Oh, such language, you're making me blush

Well, our C 230 K stays in the driveway when it's snowy and the Peugeot 405 gets the nod. The 405 is a Traction Avant, as they say in France, and:
1) it has no torque steer (please, no jokes about it having no torque - that's not quite true );
2) it is MORE, yes MORE fun to drive on a dry AND wet AND snowy road than the C 230 K.

Some front wheel drive cars are set up nicely. Peugeot was renowned for this in the 1980s, when the 205 GTI and later the 405 were introduced. Their cars are set up to be neutral (more neutral than any Mercedes) and to oversteer on trailing throttle. This is the inverse of a RWD car but in my experience it is a more rewarding type of setup when pounding around some very twisty roads maintaining a high average speed. On snow at highway speeds, the 405 is fantastic, with a totally neutral comportment and light oversteer being easily available when you need it. Of course I use four Hakkapeliitta snow tires on steelies, which helps.

Most RWD and FWD cars are set up to have massive understeer. This is something that can be counteracted with power-on oversteer in a non-ESP RWD car. It's not possible to counteract in most FWD cars without using the handbrake. The manufacturers' lawyers prefer understeer because it makes average drivers back off and keeps them out of trouble.

Lynn, I suggest you find someone who has a 1991 Peugeot 405 Mi16 and ask the owner to let you pound the car on a track. You will be converted, I guarantee it.

Now, even Peugeot has gone to the liability-avoiding route and dialed some significant understeer into most of its cars, with the exception of the 206 GTI 180 HP version. I guesss their lawyers figure those who buy the GTI 180 know what they're doing.

Lynn

I haven't seen a Pug on the street in years. When did they stop selling them in the US? The nearest 405 to me may be yours. There was an ancient 5something down the street a few years ago. You know, the one that looked like some one put it in a microwave.

Mike T.

Peugeot chickened out and ran home to Mama in 1991, July to be exact. Remember, at that time VW and Audi almost left too and look where they are now - too bad the Frenchies didn't stick it out.

I remember Consumer Reports being HORRIFIED at the 405's trailing throttle oversteer - they called it dangerous and said it could lead to "fishtailing". Idiots. I respect their reliability surveys, but keen drivers they are not.

The melted-in-the-sun Peugeot is the 504, with the droopy trunk lid - my Dad had two of those in the seventies, good cars, especially the Canadian versions which had the European headlights (which were VERY cool, almost unique) at the time. Good cars, slightly offbeat styling.

My guess is there may be about 1000 405s left in the USA so there is indeed one nearer you than mine. They only sold about 5000 of them in the USA over three years. Funny, they managed to sell ~3 million of them in other countries. I guess the scrappy electrics on early cars and the Consumer Reports "fishtailing" thumbs down scared the unwashed masses away

The 405 Mi16 is the 150 HP twincam version of my 110 HP car - it goes well and handles extremely well too (more sporting suspension setup). They're quite rare these days, and quite desireable if you're looking for a haul-*** Q car for back roads.

vadim

The solution is simple - get a set of snow tires. Summer tires are worthless in the snow.