05 C230 sedan or Acura TL
07-19-2004, 10:48 PM
#101
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Actually the TSX is the Civic platform but i may be wrong. The TL is a great looking car if you want a stretced out Accord platform and FWD. My neighboor got one the week after i got my c230. C all the way!
07-19-2004, 11:33 PM
#103
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white and whiter
Originally Posted by terp97
Actually the TSX is the Civic platform but i may be wrong. The TL is a great looking car if you want a stretced out Accord platform and FWD. My neighboor got one the week after i got my c230. C all the way!
07-20-2004, 12:18 AM
#105
TL runs 0-60 in 6.1 sec, offers DVD nav, bluetooth phone connection. It's one of the best FWD sedans money can buy.
230 on the other hand is much slower and doesn't offer the advance electronics. It does look better than TL though.
And yes, the TL is loosely based on the accord chasis. TSX is the european accord that's on a different chasis.
230 on the other hand is much slower and doesn't offer the advance electronics. It does look better than TL though.
And yes, the TL is loosely based on the accord chasis. TSX is the european accord that's on a different chasis.
07-20-2004, 06:12 AM
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white and whiter
Originally Posted by Noble C320
So basically Acuras entire line up is based on an Accord? How FREAKIN sad is that! 
the new RL will have a different new chassi w/ MDX's 4wd system.
07-20-2004, 10:47 AM
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Lots of good laughs in this thread; the only objective thing the C230 competes with the TL on (other than they are both cars) is price. When comparing cars at a price point, then they might be in the same mix. When comparing "classes" of cars, the C230 is compared to the TSX.
Looks-wise, the TL is very attractive if a little uninspired. IMHO, Mercedes makes the most beautiful cars on the road.
1SickleX (sp?) - have you done the same search for issues with the C230 for comparison? How about posting it here so people can make a fair assessment? Generally speaking, Acura is a much more reliable brand (MB ranks below average and below Oldsmobile and Ford, etc).
The TSX is a modified Euro Accord. The TL a modified US Accord. I find it ironic and amusing that people that buy/own/love MB bash Acura for platform sharing. TSX is one of C&D's 10 best (TL wasn't because of "torque steer" on the manual).
Looks-wise, the TL is very attractive if a little uninspired. IMHO, Mercedes makes the most beautiful cars on the road.
1SickleX (sp?) - have you done the same search for issues with the C230 for comparison? How about posting it here so people can make a fair assessment? Generally speaking, Acura is a much more reliable brand (MB ranks below average and below Oldsmobile and Ford, etc).
The TSX is a modified Euro Accord. The TL a modified US Accord. I find it ironic and amusing that people that buy/own/love MB bash Acura for platform sharing. TSX is one of C&D's 10 best (TL wasn't because of "torque steer" on the manual).
07-20-2004, 11:47 AM
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C230K
Originally Posted by FrankW
not entirely, the RSX is the new Integra which has a new chassi that's same w/ the Civic.
the new RL will have a different new chassi w/ MDX's 4wd system.
the new RL will have a different new chassi w/ MDX's 4wd system.
07-20-2004, 12:37 PM
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2008 c350 SG - 2004 c240 Wagon BS
A new Seiko watch is far more "technologically advanced" than a new Rolex.
Seiko's all electronic quartz movement is probably more accurate than Rolex's hand made all mechanical movement.
You never have to wind the Seiko and they even have models that can tell the weather for you.
Beyond the basic time of day, about the best a Rolex can do is tell you the day and the date.
I guess using the logic I've read above, a Seiko is a superior watch to a Rolex.
Oh, but there's that thing called craftsmanship, quality of materials and beauty of design.
Seiko's all electronic quartz movement is probably more accurate than Rolex's hand made all mechanical movement.
You never have to wind the Seiko and they even have models that can tell the weather for you.
Beyond the basic time of day, about the best a Rolex can do is tell you the day and the date.
I guess using the logic I've read above, a Seiko is a superior watch to a Rolex.
Oh, but there's that thing called craftsmanship, quality of materials and beauty of design.
07-20-2004, 12:38 PM
#110
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Originally Posted by wblynch
A new Seiko watch is far more "technologically advanced" than a new Rolex.
Seiko's all electronic quartz movement is probably more accurate than Rolex's hand made all mechanical movement.
You never have to wind the Seiko and they even have models that can tell the weather for you.
Beyond the basic time of day, about the best a Rolex can do is tell you the day and the date.
I guess using the logic I've read above, a Seiko is a superior watch to a Rolex.
Oh, but there's that thing called craftsmanship, quality of materials and beauty of design.
Seiko's all electronic quartz movement is probably more accurate than Rolex's hand made all mechanical movement.
You never have to wind the Seiko and they even have models that can tell the weather for you.
Beyond the basic time of day, about the best a Rolex can do is tell you the day and the date.
I guess using the logic I've read above, a Seiko is a superior watch to a Rolex.
Oh, but there's that thing called craftsmanship, quality of materials and beauty of design.
07-20-2004, 01:10 PM
#111
Out Of Control!!
Originally Posted by outie
Not to mention the depreciation of a seiko and appreciation for a rolex!
07-20-2004, 01:23 PM
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2016 E63s AMG
acura site's take
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87025
you guys should check out what they are saying on the Acura site. Same question just their take
you guys should check out what they are saying on the Acura site. Same question just their take
07-20-2004, 09:09 PM
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2001 ML320 E, 2003 C230K Sport Sedan
That is pretty good - the TL sight I mean.
People are so superficial and just don't appreciate quality - at least not in North America.
I went to see the rice rocket today, took it for a test drive. My impression is that there are a lot of Mercedes/BMW/Audi owners who would not put up with the TL thing very long if they had one.
Minuses.
1) The front and rear bumper skin's paint doesn't match properly to the rest of the body paint. They are two entirely different shades for all colours (I can only speak for the one's in Canada). No **** – I’m not joking take a look for youself they are 2 different shades. That kind of stuff would just drive me nuts if I had one.
2) You can have any colour interior - except they only have black dashes. I guess someone FU^&ed up when ordering materials and only ordered black dashes. The black doesn't blend with the 2 shades of brown at all.
3) They forgot the outer seals on the edges of the Hood, Trunk, and front of the front doors.
4) They forgot to overlap the gap on the front to back doors.
5) They forgot the bellypan.
6) All seals on the doors, & trunk are **** compared to Mercedes. Even where they do fit properly, they are about ½ the thickness of the Mercs.
7) The mirrors are Bolted to the car, like a cheap domestic, and they don’t blend with the door very well.
8) The doors don't match the sideskirts at all - looks like the car has some rice-aero kit on it.
9) The joins of the rice side skirts don’t have seals between them. Nice place for salt to get into and stay.
10) The whole car has a tin-ey sound to it – just roll up the windows on a Merc, then try it on the rice rocket. Go close the trunk, close the doors …. It’s bad.
11) You can hear every rut in the road from inside while you drive….. rice-road feedback – there is no sound insulation in it at all.
12) Leather seating squeaks. (They haven’t figured to treat the leather so it doesn’t squeak.)
13) No Rear side airbags (seriously …not available) – just wait till a Mercedes T-Bones a TL with kids in the rear…..dead kids.
14) No Torque steer – bulb**** – go to a big empty parking lot & try for yourself.
15) Found Glue residue (From the rice aero kit most likely) on the side skirts, and on the door sills. Did you notice the rear door sills are bonded on?
16) Subframe is thin tubular aluminum, not forged aluminum like Mercs.
17) Don’t like the Hood/Fenders. First service, someone will f&*k up the fenders. Who cares it’s just a Honda anyway.
18) No Memory Passenger seat?
19) No auto door unlock when grabbing for the handle? No memory if one or all doors should be unlocked?
20) No power adjustment on steering column?
On the plus side:
1) I was pleasantly surprised by the handling. Most front wheel drive vehicles suffer a lot of nose-dive under braking, this one doesn't.
2) They finally got the seats right – copied the perforated leather of Mercedes.
3) Got the interior door handles right – they were purchased rejects from Mercedes.
4) Panasonic Stereo sounds great.
5) Nice Engine.
6) It's cheap.
7) Interior flows well - nicely styled.
8) # 3,4,5, & 6 from the minuses (previous section) mean you will never run into a deer on the highway. The car will produce so much wind noise, animals will be able to hear you coming from miles.
This is what I picked up from one hour with the car. I'm sure if I owned it - i'd get rid of it after 6 months.
Sorry - TL just doesn't cut it.
Ed.
People are so superficial and just don't appreciate quality - at least not in North America.
I went to see the rice rocket today, took it for a test drive. My impression is that there are a lot of Mercedes/BMW/Audi owners who would not put up with the TL thing very long if they had one.
Minuses.
1) The front and rear bumper skin's paint doesn't match properly to the rest of the body paint. They are two entirely different shades for all colours (I can only speak for the one's in Canada). No **** – I’m not joking take a look for youself they are 2 different shades. That kind of stuff would just drive me nuts if I had one.
2) You can have any colour interior - except they only have black dashes. I guess someone FU^&ed up when ordering materials and only ordered black dashes. The black doesn't blend with the 2 shades of brown at all.
3) They forgot the outer seals on the edges of the Hood, Trunk, and front of the front doors.
4) They forgot to overlap the gap on the front to back doors.
5) They forgot the bellypan.
6) All seals on the doors, & trunk are **** compared to Mercedes. Even where they do fit properly, they are about ½ the thickness of the Mercs.
7) The mirrors are Bolted to the car, like a cheap domestic, and they don’t blend with the door very well.
8) The doors don't match the sideskirts at all - looks like the car has some rice-aero kit on it.
9) The joins of the rice side skirts don’t have seals between them. Nice place for salt to get into and stay.
10) The whole car has a tin-ey sound to it – just roll up the windows on a Merc, then try it on the rice rocket. Go close the trunk, close the doors …. It’s bad.
11) You can hear every rut in the road from inside while you drive….. rice-road feedback – there is no sound insulation in it at all.
12) Leather seating squeaks. (They haven’t figured to treat the leather so it doesn’t squeak.)
13) No Rear side airbags (seriously …not available) – just wait till a Mercedes T-Bones a TL with kids in the rear…..dead kids.
14) No Torque steer – bulb**** – go to a big empty parking lot & try for yourself.
15) Found Glue residue (From the rice aero kit most likely) on the side skirts, and on the door sills. Did you notice the rear door sills are bonded on?
16) Subframe is thin tubular aluminum, not forged aluminum like Mercs.
17) Don’t like the Hood/Fenders. First service, someone will f&*k up the fenders. Who cares it’s just a Honda anyway.
18) No Memory Passenger seat?
19) No auto door unlock when grabbing for the handle? No memory if one or all doors should be unlocked?
20) No power adjustment on steering column?
On the plus side:
1) I was pleasantly surprised by the handling. Most front wheel drive vehicles suffer a lot of nose-dive under braking, this one doesn't.
2) They finally got the seats right – copied the perforated leather of Mercedes.
3) Got the interior door handles right – they were purchased rejects from Mercedes.
4) Panasonic Stereo sounds great.
5) Nice Engine.
6) It's cheap.
7) Interior flows well - nicely styled.
8) # 3,4,5, & 6 from the minuses (previous section) mean you will never run into a deer on the highway. The car will produce so much wind noise, animals will be able to hear you coming from miles.
This is what I picked up from one hour with the car. I'm sure if I owned it - i'd get rid of it after 6 months.
Sorry - TL just doesn't cut it.
Ed.
07-20-2004, 09:12 PM
#114
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by fasteddie
That is pretty good - the TL sight I mean.
People are so superficial and just don't appreciate quality - at least not in North America.
I went to see the rice rocket today, took it for a test drive. My impression is that there are a lot of Mercedes/BMW/Audi owners who would not put up with the TL thing very long if they had one.
Minuses.
1) The front and rear bumper skin's paint doesn't match properly to the rest of the body paint. They are two entirely different shades for all colours (I can only speak for the one's in Canada). No **** – I’m not joking take a look for youself they are 2 different shades. That kind of stuff would just drive me nuts if I had one.
2) You can have any colour interior - except they only have black dashes. I guess someone FU^&ed up when ordering materials and only ordered black dashes. The black doesn't blend with the 2 shades of brown at all.
3) They forgot the outer seals on the edges of the Hood, Trunk, and front of the front doors.
4) They forgot to overlap the gap on the front to back doors.
5) They forgot the bellypan.
6) All seals on the doors, & trunk are **** compared to Mercedes. Even where they do fit properly, they are about ½ the thickness of the Mercs.
7) The mirrors are Bolted to the car, like a cheap domestic, and they don’t blend with the door very well.
8) The doors don't match the sideskirts at all - looks like the car has some rice-aero kit on it.
9) The joins of the rice side skirts don’t have seals between them. Nice place for salt to get into and stay.
10) The whole car has a tin-ey sound to it – just roll up the windows on a Merc, then try it on the rice rocket. Go close the trunk, close the doors …. It’s bad.
11) You can hear every rut in the road from inside while you drive….. rice-road feedback – there is no sound insulation in it at all.
12) Leather seating squeaks. (They haven’t figured to treat the leather so it doesn’t squeak.)
13) No Rear side airbags (seriously …not available) – just wait till a Mercedes T-Bones a TL with kids in the rear…..dead kids.
14) No Torque steer – bulb**** – go to a big empty parking lot & try for yourself.
15) Found Glue residue (From the rice aero kit most likely) on the side skirts, and on the door sills. Did you notice the rear door sills are bonded on?
16) Subframe is thin tubular aluminum, not forged aluminum like Mercs.
17) Don’t like the Hood/Fenders. First service, someone will f&*k up the fenders. Who cares it’s just a Honda anyway.
18) No Memory Passenger seat?
19) No auto door unlock when grabbing for the handle? No memory if one or all doors should be unlocked?
20) No power adjustment on steering column?
On the plus side:
1) I was pleasantly surprised by the handling. Most front wheel drive vehicles suffer a lot of nose-dive under braking, this one doesn't.
2) They finally got the seats right – copied the perforated leather of Mercedes.
3) Got the interior door handles right – they were purchased rejects from Mercedes.
4) Panasonic Stereo sounds great.
5) Nice Engine.
6) It's cheap.
7) Interior flows well - nicely styled.
8) # 3,4,5, & 6 from the minuses (previous section) mean you will never run into a deer on the highway. The car will produce so much wind noise, animals will be able to hear you coming from miles.
This is what I picked up from one hour with the car. I'm sure if I owned it - i'd get rid of it after 6 months.
Sorry - TL just doesn't cut it.
Ed.
People are so superficial and just don't appreciate quality - at least not in North America.
I went to see the rice rocket today, took it for a test drive. My impression is that there are a lot of Mercedes/BMW/Audi owners who would not put up with the TL thing very long if they had one.
Minuses.
1) The front and rear bumper skin's paint doesn't match properly to the rest of the body paint. They are two entirely different shades for all colours (I can only speak for the one's in Canada). No **** – I’m not joking take a look for youself they are 2 different shades. That kind of stuff would just drive me nuts if I had one.
2) You can have any colour interior - except they only have black dashes. I guess someone FU^&ed up when ordering materials and only ordered black dashes. The black doesn't blend with the 2 shades of brown at all.
3) They forgot the outer seals on the edges of the Hood, Trunk, and front of the front doors.
4) They forgot to overlap the gap on the front to back doors.
5) They forgot the bellypan.
6) All seals on the doors, & trunk are **** compared to Mercedes. Even where they do fit properly, they are about ½ the thickness of the Mercs.
7) The mirrors are Bolted to the car, like a cheap domestic, and they don’t blend with the door very well.
8) The doors don't match the sideskirts at all - looks like the car has some rice-aero kit on it.
9) The joins of the rice side skirts don’t have seals between them. Nice place for salt to get into and stay.
10) The whole car has a tin-ey sound to it – just roll up the windows on a Merc, then try it on the rice rocket. Go close the trunk, close the doors …. It’s bad.
11) You can hear every rut in the road from inside while you drive….. rice-road feedback – there is no sound insulation in it at all.
12) Leather seating squeaks. (They haven’t figured to treat the leather so it doesn’t squeak.)
13) No Rear side airbags (seriously …not available) – just wait till a Mercedes T-Bones a TL with kids in the rear…..dead kids.
14) No Torque steer – bulb**** – go to a big empty parking lot & try for yourself.
15) Found Glue residue (From the rice aero kit most likely) on the side skirts, and on the door sills. Did you notice the rear door sills are bonded on?
16) Subframe is thin tubular aluminum, not forged aluminum like Mercs.
17) Don’t like the Hood/Fenders. First service, someone will f&*k up the fenders. Who cares it’s just a Honda anyway.
18) No Memory Passenger seat?
19) No auto door unlock when grabbing for the handle? No memory if one or all doors should be unlocked?
20) No power adjustment on steering column?
On the plus side:
1) I was pleasantly surprised by the handling. Most front wheel drive vehicles suffer a lot of nose-dive under braking, this one doesn't.
2) They finally got the seats right – copied the perforated leather of Mercedes.
3) Got the interior door handles right – they were purchased rejects from Mercedes.
4) Panasonic Stereo sounds great.
5) Nice Engine.
6) It's cheap.
7) Interior flows well - nicely styled.
8) # 3,4,5, & 6 from the minuses (previous section) mean you will never run into a deer on the highway. The car will produce so much wind noise, animals will be able to hear you coming from miles.
This is what I picked up from one hour with the car. I'm sure if I owned it - i'd get rid of it after 6 months.
Sorry - TL just doesn't cut it.
Ed.
07-20-2004, 10:24 PM
#115
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2001 ML320 E, 2003 C230K Sport Sedan
Originally Posted by dead_eye
Not to mention the NSX and the MDX (SUV). In fact the Honda Pilot is based on the MDX, or rather, they took the MDX design and looked at how many corners they can cut.
Not to mention the MDX is based on the ML??????
Ed
07-21-2004, 10:55 AM
#116
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As pretty as the C230 is, I'll take the Acura TSX over both the C230 and TL. Just a better car overall (and the C230 is more a TSX competitor than TL, except in price). However, I could still see someone taking the C over any Acura based on looks, but that's not me.
FYI - bashing on platform sharing is what I see a lot of people do on various forums when the competition is so close, or superior... hope you're not falling victim to this tendency.
FYI - bashing on platform sharing is what I see a lot of people do on various forums when the competition is so close, or superior... hope you're not falling victim to this tendency.
07-21-2004, 12:17 PM
#117
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2001 ML320 E, 2003 C230K Sport Sedan
Originally Posted by vitocorleone
As pretty as the C230 is, I'll take the Acura TSX over both the C230 and TL. Just a better car overall (and the C230 is more a TSX competitor than TL, except in price). However, I could still see someone taking the C over any Acura based on looks, but that's not me.
FYI - bashing on platform sharing is what I see a lot of people do on various forums when the competition is so close, or superior... hope you're not falling victim to this tendency.
FYI - bashing on platform sharing is what I see a lot of people do on various forums when the competition is so close, or superior... hope you're not falling victim to this tendency.
Nope... Not platform bashing. I can recognize a 3 dressed up as a 9. I think Acura is much more close to say a well fitted Pontiac Sunfire or maybe even a Grand Am as a comparison. Seems most prople just don't look close enough.
German cars are designed to provide solid safe, high speed crusing on an Autobahn. Few non-German cars can compare to this. Imangine driving to work everyday at say 110 mph (or even 130, 140 ) for about a half hour every day. I would prefer to do it in a Merc, BMW, Audi, or even a VW. Last thing I would want to be in is a Japanese or Korean car.
Look at any accident with a German car and a Japanese car....the big loosers are the people in the Japanese cars.
Ed.
07-21-2004, 01:44 PM
#118
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C32
Originally Posted by fasteddie
Nope... Not platform bashing. I can recognize a 3 dressed up as a 9. I think Acura is much more close to say a well fitted Pontiac Sunfire or maybe even a Grand Am as a comparison. Seems most prople just don't look close enough.
German cars are designed to provide solid safe, high speed crusing on an Autobahn. Few non-German cars can compare to this. Imangine driving to work everyday at say 110 mph (or even 130, 140 ) for about a half hour every day. I would prefer to do it in a Merc, BMW, Audi, or even a VW. Last thing I would want to be in is a Japanese or Korean car.
Look at any accident with a German car and a Japanese car....the big loosers are the people in the Japanese cars.
Ed.
German cars are designed to provide solid safe, high speed crusing on an Autobahn. Few non-German cars can compare to this. Imangine driving to work everyday at say 110 mph (or even 130, 140 ) for about a half hour every day. I would prefer to do it in a Merc, BMW, Audi, or even a VW. Last thing I would want to be in is a Japanese or Korean car.
Look at any accident with a German car and a Japanese car....the big loosers are the people in the Japanese cars.
Ed.
I wouldn't even consider a Korean because their technology is mostly based from licensed "been there done that" Japanese products form the previous decade. Cheap? Of course. But the companies still have catching up to do. Without the price incentives and the warranties they simply cannot compete, not even with the big 3.
As far as the accident between a German car and a Japanese car, I beg to differ. While this may hold true years ago, the Japanese have caught up significantly and the extent of damage depends on too many factors beyond the scope of this email. Most people get the perception of safety simply because the metal seems to be thicker on the panels or the doors are designed to close in a certain manner. i.e. If you think an A-class can "out-hit" a LS430 in a head on collision you are in for a reality check.
07-21-2004, 01:48 PM
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C32
Originally Posted by fasteddie
Not to mention the MDX is based on the ML??????
Ed
Ed
I don't see how the MDX is based on the ML. I drove the ML350 as a loaner on two occasions and allow me to tell you it is an overpriced, poorly designed SUV. For this reason, many dealers offer a significant discount on it. The only good thing about it is the fancy leather on the transmission console in the Special Edition.
Thank God/Allah... that MB is redesigning it for 06.
07-21-2004, 03:03 PM
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C320 Coupe
Originally Posted by ultraseven
Actually, I would not take a VW. No offense, but their reliability record doesn't bode well, even when compared to Big Brother MB.
If you think an A-class can "out-hit" a LS430 in a head on collision you are in for a reality check.
obviously, any like 3000 lb car will be done if hit by a car that weighs a thousand more lbs. but an S-class and an LS430 collision, i'd probably take the S-class. just because MB is pretty well known for safety, and my mom's been in a pretty serious accident with her c280 once (she was hit by a small SUV), and she described it as feeling like "sitting on a cushion". that aside, my car, for example, comes standard with rear side airbags and head curtains, among several other safety options. the 3 series and a4 don't have that standard. and for christsakes, haha, the SL comes with a freakin knee airbag!!
07-21-2004, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fasteddie
Nope... Not platform bashing. I can recognize a 3 dressed up as a 9. I think Acura is much more close to say a well fitted Pontiac Sunfire or maybe even a Grand Am as a comparison. Seems most prople just don't look close enough.
German cars are designed to provide solid safe, high speed crusing on an Autobahn. Few non-German cars can compare to this. Imangine driving to work everyday at say 110 mph (or even 130, 140 ) for about a half hour every day. I would prefer to do it in a Merc, BMW, Audi, or even a VW. Last thing I would want to be in is a Japanese or Korean car.
Look at any accident with a German car and a Japanese car....the big loosers are the people in the Japanese cars.
Ed.
German cars are designed to provide solid safe, high speed crusing on an Autobahn. Few non-German cars can compare to this. Imangine driving to work everyday at say 110 mph (or even 130, 140 ) for about a half hour every day. I would prefer to do it in a Merc, BMW, Audi, or even a VW. Last thing I would want to be in is a Japanese or Korean car.
Look at any accident with a German car and a Japanese car....the big loosers are the people in the Japanese cars.
Ed.
As for Acura like a Pontiac - can't dispute your opinion. Of course, mine is that MB these days is lots of style (so damn beautiful), little substance (so damn unreliable - rated as more unreliable than a Pontiac). If I could afford an S-class or somesuch MB, then I'd get it - because I could also then afford to pay hired help to take it in for repairs.
07-21-2004, 04:36 PM
#122
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2004 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by fasteddie
No Rear side airbags (seriously …not available) – just wait till a Mercedes T-Bones a TL with kids in the rear…..dead kids.
Can someone prove me wrong? Of all the USDM cars I've come across, the maximum airbag count I've seen is 6 (driver, passenger, 2x front side, 2x side curtains), except for MB which has 8 (driver, passenger, 2x front side, 2x rear side, 2x side curtains)
Not even Volvo, with their reputation for safety, offer rear side airbags...
And to add to that safety question, the C-Class is one of only five cars that scored a perfect 5 stars in the euro NCAP test.
As for A-class vs LS430 - I remember reading a magazine article a while ago about the new Volvo S40, and they showed pictures of it being hit by a XC90... there was virtually no damage/injuries to the dummies in the S40, but the S40 was a mess. The safety of a car is in its design, it's supposed to give its life for yours. Doesn't matter if its small or big, it can still be designed to sustain a large impact.
Last edited by [180]; 07-21-2004 at 04:45 PM.
07-21-2004, 08:47 PM
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2001 ML320 E, 2003 C230K Sport Sedan
Originally Posted by [180]
I don't think anyone but MB offers rear side airbags in the US - not even in the BMW 3 series, which is odd since all euro market 3 series have rear side airbags standard.
Can someone prove me wrong? Of all the USDM cars I've come across, the maximum airbag count I've seen is 6 (driver, passenger, 2x front side, 2x side curtains), except for MB which has 8 (driver, passenger, 2x front side, 2x rear side, 2x side curtains)
Not even Volvo, with their reputation for safety, offer rear side airbags...
Can someone prove me wrong? Of all the USDM cars I've come across, the maximum airbag count I've seen is 6 (driver, passenger, 2x front side, 2x side curtains), except for MB which has 8 (driver, passenger, 2x front side, 2x rear side, 2x side curtains)
Not even Volvo, with their reputation for safety, offer rear side airbags...
Ed
07-21-2004, 09:21 PM
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2001 ML320 E, 2003 C230K Sport Sedan
Originally Posted by vitocorleone
As for Acura like a Pontiac - can't dispute your opinion. Of course, mine is that MB these days is lots of style (so damn beautiful), little substance (so damn unreliable - rated as more unreliable than a Pontiac). If I could afford an S-class or somesuch MB, then I'd get it - because I could also then afford to pay hired help to take it in for repairs.
At the last JD Power quality thing - Buick was high on the list, Pontiac is low on the list. What is the difference between the 2 - it's the driver. 1 is an oblivious little old lady who bought the Buick with her husbands death benefit. The other is a young to middle aged male who wants a flashy sporty car.
Where is the quality complaints going to come from? It's the middle aged man in the Pontiac. The little old lady in the Buick just loves the way it starts so nicely when she turns the key.
Anyway - I honestly believe you cannot always just take a cheaper platform and just dress it up and call it luxury. With Merc, Audi, and BMW, at least you have got a platform designed to be what it is. Not something that has been brought up in scale.
Cadillac tried it with the Caterra - and did not receive the most favorable results. I liked the STS & the SLS and with their new cars now, they have got something good starting to happen again. (No, I would probably not buy one over a Merc, but it's nice to see the homegrown domestics do well.)
Ed.
07-21-2004, 10:09 PM
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Being an owner of both TL and W140 S-Class, I might as well jump in....
TL, very nicely equipped, reasonably finished(though, IMHO, Toyota's fit/finish is probably the best among Jap cars), but chassis is no where near what German cars are.... It's good, but not excellent with noticeable body/chassis flex after you drive it for a extensive period of time....
Cornering feels natural with slight hint of under-steer, which I think it's pretty good consider it's size and drivetrain layout..... It's a car that I wouldn't mind driving for 2 - 3 years, sell it and move on... But for a car to keep, there aren't many cars that would hold together as nice as German cars.
TSX, Accord, TL, all use the same basic platform.... Supposely, TSX is the one started it all(Jap/Euro Accord), and with some modifications(chassis lengthen/toughen up), it became the platform for US Accord/TL....
TL, very nicely equipped, reasonably finished(though, IMHO, Toyota's fit/finish is probably the best among Jap cars), but chassis is no where near what German cars are.... It's good, but not excellent with noticeable body/chassis flex after you drive it for a extensive period of time....
Cornering feels natural with slight hint of under-steer, which I think it's pretty good consider it's size and drivetrain layout..... It's a car that I wouldn't mind driving for 2 - 3 years, sell it and move on... But for a car to keep, there aren't many cars that would hold together as nice as German cars.
TSX, Accord, TL, all use the same basic platform.... Supposely, TSX is the one started it all(Jap/Euro Accord), and with some modifications(chassis lengthen/toughen up), it became the platform for US Accord/TL....
