W203 C180 Drive Jerk Problem
#1
W203 C180 Drive Jerk Problem
Hi everybody!
I am so glad to have found these forums as I am already pretty much fed up and exhausted in finding a solution to my problem.
Recently I bought 2006 model C180 Sedan. I have no previous experience with any German cars as I have always owned Japanese cars in the past.
The problem with my C180 is that whenever the RPM is in between 1100-1400, the car starts to jerk, sometimes it jerks just once, at other times 3-4 times and as soon as the RPM goes above 1500, jerking stops.
Most importantly, the car jerks because it suddenly loses 200-300 RPM on the engine. I have uploaded a video to youtube, if you have 90 sec of spare time pls take a look here:
What I have noticed:
1. Engine temperature (cold or warm) has no effect, jerks persist in both conditions
2. Accelerating or decelerating, whenever the engine is in the said RPM range, jerks can be felt
3. Problem persists in both auto and manual driving modes
4. Even if driving in 1st gear, the car keeps jerking in the said RPM range. So I am pretty sure that jerks are not caused by gear shifting
What the mechanic has already tried:
1. Service of throttle body
2. Replacement of all three foundations
3. Replacement of transmission valve body
But the problem doesn't go away. These drive jerks are making me look silly and funny whenever I am stuck in traffic or a signal, LOL.
Please let me know if you need any further details. Thanks a lot for your time.
I am so glad to have found these forums as I am already pretty much fed up and exhausted in finding a solution to my problem.
Recently I bought 2006 model C180 Sedan. I have no previous experience with any German cars as I have always owned Japanese cars in the past.
The problem with my C180 is that whenever the RPM is in between 1100-1400, the car starts to jerk, sometimes it jerks just once, at other times 3-4 times and as soon as the RPM goes above 1500, jerking stops.
Most importantly, the car jerks because it suddenly loses 200-300 RPM on the engine. I have uploaded a video to youtube, if you have 90 sec of spare time pls take a look here:
What I have noticed:
1. Engine temperature (cold or warm) has no effect, jerks persist in both conditions
2. Accelerating or decelerating, whenever the engine is in the said RPM range, jerks can be felt
3. Problem persists in both auto and manual driving modes
4. Even if driving in 1st gear, the car keeps jerking in the said RPM range. So I am pretty sure that jerks are not caused by gear shifting
What the mechanic has already tried:
1. Service of throttle body
2. Replacement of all three foundations
3. Replacement of transmission valve body
But the problem doesn't go away. These drive jerks are making me look silly and funny whenever I am stuck in traffic or a signal, LOL.
Please let me know if you need any further details. Thanks a lot for your time.
#2
Hello, have you tried turning "dyno mode" (in a hidden menu) AND esp off? does it still happen in S mode (C starts at 2nd gear)? Do the jerks happen when you are reversing? Did you have any error codes?
What about when in neutral and not driving?
What about when in neutral and not driving?
#3
Thanks for the reply.
It happens in both C and S modes, I have tried both.
I have not noticed jerks while reversing. I will reconfirm it soon.
No error codes at all.
I'll try turning off ESP mode and Dyno Mode off as well. Not tried before.
When the car is netrual or in "D" but not driving, there are no jerks at all.
It happens in both C and S modes, I have tried both.
I have not noticed jerks while reversing. I will reconfirm it soon.
No error codes at all.
I'll try turning off ESP mode and Dyno Mode off as well. Not tried before.
When the car is netrual or in "D" but not driving, there are no jerks at all.
#4
Just an FYI im not very experienced. Ok so in neutral no jerks (so theres no vacuum leak or mass air flow / camshaft sensor problem)
The reason i say no dyno mode/esp is just to rule one more thing out (and it kicks in over 15 or 10 km/h if i remember)
But lets be honest, its probably something in the transmission. Those motor/actuator things? can be removed and tested with multimeter (ive seen people needing to repair them) they sit on the conductor plate (which can also go bad) is that what your mechanic changed?
My knowledge of transmission issues isnt good enough to diagnose this jerk at those revs, hopefully someone else can
*when did this problem start and how many miles/km's on the car?
The reason i say no dyno mode/esp is just to rule one more thing out (and it kicks in over 15 or 10 km/h if i remember)
But lets be honest, its probably something in the transmission. Those motor/actuator things? can be removed and tested with multimeter (ive seen people needing to repair them) they sit on the conductor plate (which can also go bad) is that what your mechanic changed?
My knowledge of transmission issues isnt good enough to diagnose this jerk at those revs, hopefully someone else can
*when did this problem start and how many miles/km's on the car?
#5
But lets be honest, its probably something in the transmission. Those motor/actuator things? can be removed and tested with multimeter (ive seen people needing to repair them) they sit on the conductor plate (which can also go bad) is that what your mechanic changed?
My knowledge of transmission issues isnt good enough to diagnose this jerk at those revs, hopefully someone else can
My knowledge of transmission issues isnt good enough to diagnose this jerk at those revs, hopefully someone else can
*when did this problem start and how many miles/km's on the car?
#6
If it was transmission, shouldn't the jerks appear at randome RPMs at any time rather than at low RPM? The mechanic also wants to replace the Transmission now as he has replace the valve body (probably the conductor plate as you say).
Do you want to pay for a new transmission? more money? or can you sell it with this 'problem'? That seems like alot of money
Have a nice day and goodluck!
*just be sure its 'dyno mode' in the 'hidden' menu, on my model i turn the key one click? and press the reset button 3x and i hear a beep (if i remember) then it worked
Last edited by DjaKRAbb; 12-04-2020 at 06:50 AM.
#7
You make a good point. i dont know exactly how the transmission works so that was just my 'opinion' sorry.
Do you want to pay for a new transmission? more money? or can you sell it with this 'problem'? That seems like alot of money
Have a nice day and goodluck!
*just be sure its 'dyno mode' in the 'hidden' menu, on my model i turn the key one click? and press the reset button 3x and i hear a beep (if i remember) then it worked
Do you want to pay for a new transmission? more money? or can you sell it with this 'problem'? That seems like alot of money
Have a nice day and goodluck!
*just be sure its 'dyno mode' in the 'hidden' menu, on my model i turn the key one click? and press the reset button 3x and i hear a beep (if i remember) then it worked
Yes, just tested with 'dyno mode' off. When I turned it off the notification meter said " ESP, ABS inoperative" so I guess I did it right. But even then, the car kept jerking as ususal.
As you rightly said, I will not be able to sell this car in its current position. I might go for Transmission replacement but I have to be sure that it will resolve the problem.
Till now I am not sure if it is actually tranmission problem or not.
Do you think it can be related to current/electric components? Coils, plugs or something else?
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#8
I have just checked the price and transmission is available @ USD 300-350. I think that't a fair price for the part, right?
But again, somehow we must be sure that transmission replacement will solve the issue.
But again, somehow we must be sure that transmission replacement will solve the issue.
#9
Indeed, need to be sure of the problem. I did find someone else with the same issue here m h h auto.com https://*******.com/Thread-722-6-jer...verter-applied
Does your problem happen only when you are accelerating 'gently'? e,g if you hold brake, bring rpm to over 1500~(above where the 'problem' happens) and release brake (with dyno mode / esp off) in a safe big area incase your wheels spin. Better method = "Try on upphill and keep gaspedal steady at one point. Do car jerk? If it does replace tourque converter."
Doesnt happen in reverse?
^ look.. it could be - t orque converter, oil on the 'tcu' or just a damaged transmission ,,, so if you replace the whole transmission. it could still be the 'TCU' with oil on.. so i guess you should double check theres no oil on TCU (apparently its in the passenger footwell.. im not sure about your model)
Does your problem happen only when you are accelerating 'gently'? e,g if you hold brake, bring rpm to over 1500~(above where the 'problem' happens) and release brake (with dyno mode / esp off) in a safe big area incase your wheels spin. Better method = "Try on upphill and keep gaspedal steady at one point. Do car jerk? If it does replace tourque converter."
Doesnt happen in reverse?
I just replaced Torque converter and TCC solenoid valve and do the adaptation.
noting changed. still jerk when TCC solenoid is energized only at light throttle.
noting changed. still jerk when TCC solenoid is energized only at light throttle.
1. Valve body.
2. Conductor plate
3. Converter
4. Tranny ecu
5. Adaptation
6. Low oil / bad oil -- black/burned/smelly
7. Software issue ( but thats veeery rear)
2. Conductor plate
3. Converter
4. Tranny ecu
5. Adaptation
6. Low oil / bad oil -- black/burned/smelly
7. Software issue ( but thats veeery rear)
Last edited by DjaKRAbb; 12-04-2020 at 09:40 AM.
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sikander3786 (12-04-2020)
#10
Indeed, need to be sure of the problem. I did find someone else with the same issue here m h h auto.com https://*******.com/Thread-722-6-jer...verter-applied
Does your problem happen only when you are accelerating 'gently'? e,g if you hold brake, bring rpm to over 1500~(above where the 'problem' happens) and release brake (with dyno mode / esp off) in a safe big area incase your wheels spin. Better method = "Try on upphill and keep gaspedal steady at one point. Do car jerk? If it does replace tourque converter."
Doesnt happen in reverse?
Does your problem happen only when you are accelerating 'gently'? e,g if you hold brake, bring rpm to over 1500~(above where the 'problem' happens) and release brake (with dyno mode / esp off) in a safe big area incase your wheels spin. Better method = "Try on upphill and keep gaspedal steady at one point. Do car jerk? If it does replace tourque converter."
Doesnt happen in reverse?
^ look.. it could be - t orque converter, oil on the 'tcu' or just a damaged transmission ,,, so if you replace the whole transmission. it could still be the 'TCU' with oil on.. so i guess you should double check theres no oil on TCU (apparently its in the passenger footwell.. im not sure about your model)
Where is the Torque converter located? In the Transmission unit or somewhere else?
#13
You would have to confirm that, incase they re-use your old converter which could also have a problem . you never know. Do the converter test first, the uphill test
Last edited by DjaKRAbb; 12-04-2020 at 10:32 AM.
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sikander3786 (12-04-2020)
#14
I tested my car uphill, 40-50 degree inclination for 2 km, last night. No extra jerks except the one's that I am facing already. Drive was smooth once I crossed the 1600 rpm barrier.
#15
Have you checked intake for leaks? Looked at self adaption values. Checked valve timing. Forget about dyno mode BS! Find a merc technician that knows what to check because you guys really have no clue what you doing!
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sikander3786 (12-05-2020)
#16
Haha i agree, im trying my best but you mention 'valve timing'. he said it does not happen in neutral so would that mean the engine isnt the problem? neither is intake/vacuum leaks if its not happening in neutral?
"Forget about dyno mode BS!" - i have to disagree. I did not know this existed. I had my 2 rear wheels jacked up and i wanted to test my hand brake adjustment / brake pipe bleed. The wheels spin and then suddenly jerking and juddering.. which feels like its coming from the transmission. but it was actually the electric brake system freaking out because it thinks i have front wheel lock up. so a simple 'disable' of this to remove any guesses is a good method to diagnose .. remove something else? it turns on around 10-15km'h which is almost in the rpm range the problem occurs. so saying 'BS' is not fair.
"Forget about dyno mode BS!" - i have to disagree. I did not know this existed. I had my 2 rear wheels jacked up and i wanted to test my hand brake adjustment / brake pipe bleed. The wheels spin and then suddenly jerking and juddering.. which feels like its coming from the transmission. but it was actually the electric brake system freaking out because it thinks i have front wheel lock up. so a simple 'disable' of this to remove any guesses is a good method to diagnose .. remove something else? it turns on around 10-15km'h which is almost in the rpm range the problem occurs. so saying 'BS' is not fair.
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sikander3786 (12-05-2020)
#17
Mate please, I have worked on mercs daily for 30 years and w203 since they were launched. Never have I needed to switch off esp to diagnose anything. Putting a car in neutral and saying then it can't be the engine is total nonsense! Where do you get your information from? You are totally misleading
#18
Mate please, I have worked on mercs daily for 30 years and w203 since they were launched. Never have I needed to switch off esp to diagnose anything. Putting a car in neutral and saying then it can't be the engine is total nonsense! Where do you get your information from? You are totally misleading
Glad to know about your expertise but I was unable to find any tech of your level here in my city. So, your input really matter for me.
My tech wants to replace the transmission. He is pretty confident that the problem isn't in the engine. Most of the threads I have seen here with similar symptoms, their issue was resolved after replacement of solenoid or valve body. You might be able to better guide me on that.
Another fact that my tech has replaced 3 valve bodies and the issue seems to go away for 10-20 km of drive. Next morning when I take the car out of garage, the jerks come back. That's is something strange but it also probably points toward the problem being with valve body/tranmission, right?
#19
Then you are exactly the person who's input is greatly appreciated and i thank you for that. I am learning myself and asking questions, maybe you mistook my questions as statements (i was explaining my reasons for believing what i think) and i would gladly like to be told if im wrong. im explaining why i have formed an opinion on something and im open to be corrected. putting a car in neutral and increasing the revs = engine working pulling in air / fuel so in my mind if the problem isnt happening here.. but only when he's in drive.. to me that is 1+1=2 or?
Dyno mode / esp - kicks in around 10-15km/h - i read it in my owners manual. and have experienced the juddering effect of it. Why get so offensive or discredit it as a cause (even if its a small % of being faulty) when its simply pressing a button 3 times to turn it off? Scotty kilmer has worked on cars for over 52 years ! "total nonsense" "totally misleading" "BS"
Dyno mode / esp - kicks in around 10-15km/h - i read it in my owners manual. and have experienced the juddering effect of it. Why get so offensive or discredit it as a cause (even if its a small % of being faulty) when its simply pressing a button 3 times to turn it off? Scotty kilmer has worked on cars for over 52 years ! "total nonsense" "totally misleading" "BS"
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sikander3786 (12-05-2020)
#20
So, transmission was replaced on Saturday. Including the Torque Converter. But the jerk problem didn't go away. The car still jerks same like it used to jerk with the old transmission.
Another thing I've noticed that the car jerks more when the engine is cold. This I didn't notice earlier but yesterday morning and today morning it was quite obvious that the car jerked more frequently and violently when the engine was cold and seemed to settle down after 15-20 min of driving after the temperature crossed 80 degrees.
Another thing I've noticed that the car jerks more when the engine is cold. This I didn't notice earlier but yesterday morning and today morning it was quite obvious that the car jerked more frequently and violently when the engine was cold and seemed to settle down after 15-20 min of driving after the temperature crossed 80 degrees.
#22
Like I said. Find someone with star Diagnose do a short test and post the results here. Not some cheap aftermarket scanner! Then get comms with engine and post all self adaption mixture values. Also look in menu "check idle speed" i want to see intake and exhaust cam values at idle when hot. Post it all here. Then we can start seeing what's really wrong without guessing. Good luck!
#23
Like I said. Find someone with star Diagnose do a short test and post the results here. Not some cheap aftermarket scanner! Then get comms with engine and post all self adaption mixture values. Also look in menu "check idle speed" i want to see intake and exhaust cam values at idle when hot. Post it all here. Then we can start seeing what's really wrong without guessing. Good luck!
#24
Like I said. Find someone with star Diagnose do a short test and post the results here. Not some cheap aftermarket scanner! Then get comms with engine and post all self adaption mixture values. Also look in menu "check idle speed" i want to see intake and exhaust cam values at idle when hot. Post it all here. Then we can start seeing what's really wrong without guessing. Good luck!