c7 shifter vs. stock shifter
#1
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
c230k, black, auto, c2 (let the sunshine in), Bose, leather, and CD
c7 shifter vs. stock shifter
Hi all!
As I get closer to filing my lemon law suit, I've really thought about getting a standard tranny despite the fact I live on the steepest hill in San Francisco. I just miss driving a stick so much and decided that the headache parking is a fair trade-off for a stick.
When I bought my car, I test drove the stock shifter and was unimpressed. I know everyone sezz it gets better, but I just did not like it enough. So my question is how much better is the C7 shifter? Could someone please describe the differences.
(btw, Lynn, I would have PMed your directly, but I thought others would like to know this too. )
Cheers,
Beth
As I get closer to filing my lemon law suit, I've really thought about getting a standard tranny despite the fact I live on the steepest hill in San Francisco. I just miss driving a stick so much and decided that the headache parking is a fair trade-off for a stick.
When I bought my car, I test drove the stock shifter and was unimpressed. I know everyone sezz it gets better, but I just did not like it enough. So my question is how much better is the C7 shifter? Could someone please describe the differences.
(btw, Lynn, I would have PMed your directly, but I thought others would like to know this too. )
Cheers,
Beth
#2
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From: Central NJ
C230K Coupe/Orion/C4/C5/CD/AMG Spoiler/V60/TeleAid, 2 MGB's
I'm told C7 cars have a shorter throw shifter, but I didn't really notice the difference. The shift arm in the non-C7 car has a bend in it and it is slightly longer. To tell you the truth, I hated the feel of the C7 shift "knob"...sort of like a victorian door knob. I prefer the pistol grip style of the standard shift.
#3
If you want to make your way down to South SF during the
weekday you can drive mine a bit. I work on Oyster Point
Blvd. 2K miles on it right now, definitely feels better
than when I picked it up but I'm hoping it breaks in a
little more still. Don't remember how the non-C7 feels
so I can't compare.
weekday you can drive mine a bit. I work on Oyster Point
Blvd. 2K miles on it right now, definitely feels better
than when I picked it up but I'm hoping it breaks in a
little more still. Don't remember how the non-C7 feels
so I can't compare.
#4
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
c230k, black, auto, c2 (let the sunshine in), Bose, leather, and CD
Thanks Rick, I'm hoping to avoid going to test drive it, but your post makes me think I should. To be honest, I really just want the door handles especially if I don't get black. I really do not like the c7 wheels (no one shoot me please).
We'll see what others have to say. Heard you got some rain. Are the flows up?
Cheers,
Beth
We'll see what others have to say. Heard you got some rain. Are the flows up?
Cheers,
Beth
#5
Re: c7 shifter vs. stock shifter
Originally posted by galaxygrrl
I've really thought about getting a standard tranny despite the fact I live on the steepest hill in San Francisco. I just miss driving a stick so much and decided that the headache parking is a fair trade-off for a stick.
I've really thought about getting a standard tranny despite the fact I live on the steepest hill in San Francisco. I just miss driving a stick so much and decided that the headache parking is a fair trade-off for a stick.
If you have to parallel park a lot in the hilly terrain, I just want to point out the floor e-brake is a pain in the @$$ to use in these conditions.
BT
#6
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
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Re: Re: c7 shifter vs. stock shifter
Originally posted by trench
Beth
If you have to parallel park a lot in the hilly terrain, I just want to point out the floor e-brake is a pain in the @$$ to use in these conditions.
BT
Beth
If you have to parallel park a lot in the hilly terrain, I just want to point out the floor e-brake is a pain in the @$$ to use in these conditions.
BT
So, the floor e-brake is a pain, but it is still doable right? It's not like I need a third foot?
thx
Beth
#7
Re: Re: Re: c7 shifter vs. stock shifter
Originally posted by galaxygrrl
So, the floor e-brake is a pain, but it is still doable right? It's not like I need a third foot?
So, the floor e-brake is a pain, but it is still doable right? It's not like I need a third foot?
Of course, if you had a third foot it would be no problem at all.
BT
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#8
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
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Originally posted by hphan
If you want to make your way down to South SF during the
weekday you can drive mine a bit. I work on Oyster Point
Blvd. 2K miles on it right now, definitely feels better
than when I picked it up but I'm hoping it breaks in a
little more still. Don't remember how the non-C7 feels
so I can't compare.
If you want to make your way down to South SF during the
weekday you can drive mine a bit. I work on Oyster Point
Blvd. 2K miles on it right now, definitely feels better
than when I picked it up but I'm hoping it breaks in a
little more still. Don't remember how the non-C7 feels
so I can't compare.
Beth
#9
Beth, the C7 shifter is so much better than the regular shifter. I'd say it is worth at least half the price of the C7 package. Is it as good as an RSX? Not by a long shot. But, it is much better than a WRX. I've had a brief drive in a BMW Z3, which is supposed to have a great shift feel. Honestly, I don't think the C7 shifter is very inferior to that.
I just went to the garage and rowed the shifter of my now dead 280z. I really liked the way that car shifted, even if I did go through three used trannies in the 7 1/2 years I drove it. The C7 has shorter thows and a narrow gate. The MB trans is stiffer, but then it only has 3900 miles while the Datsun has who knows how many.
While St. Louis isn't as hilly as SF, it isn't exactly flat, especially where I live. One route I take often almost always requires stopping on a semi-steep slope. The car has no problem starting from a stop and going up the hill.
This brings up little side issue and question.
I was taught to drive a standard on hills steeper than most in SF in an International Scout with the under the dash engage and disengage by hand parking brake. The insructor taught me how to use disengage parking brake, engage the clutch and gentley press the throttle to start from a dead stop. I told him this seems silly, can't I just keep my right foot on the brake, and when the time comes release the brake, move my foot to the throttle, and engage the clutch. He told me to try it. I rolled back about three feet the first time. That was the last time in 36 years I have ever rolled back more than a few inches. My question is this. Do people really use the parking brake to start from a dead stop on a hill? The whole idea boggles my mind!
Edit: I wrote the above after reading Beths's original post, and with out reading the rest. I can see how the parking brake might be useful when parallel parking a very steep hill.
I just went to the garage and rowed the shifter of my now dead 280z. I really liked the way that car shifted, even if I did go through three used trannies in the 7 1/2 years I drove it. The C7 has shorter thows and a narrow gate. The MB trans is stiffer, but then it only has 3900 miles while the Datsun has who knows how many.
While St. Louis isn't as hilly as SF, it isn't exactly flat, especially where I live. One route I take often almost always requires stopping on a semi-steep slope. The car has no problem starting from a stop and going up the hill.
This brings up little side issue and question.
I was taught to drive a standard on hills steeper than most in SF in an International Scout with the under the dash engage and disengage by hand parking brake. The insructor taught me how to use disengage parking brake, engage the clutch and gentley press the throttle to start from a dead stop. I told him this seems silly, can't I just keep my right foot on the brake, and when the time comes release the brake, move my foot to the throttle, and engage the clutch. He told me to try it. I rolled back about three feet the first time. That was the last time in 36 years I have ever rolled back more than a few inches. My question is this. Do people really use the parking brake to start from a dead stop on a hill? The whole idea boggles my mind!
Edit: I wrote the above after reading Beths's original post, and with out reading the rest. I can see how the parking brake might be useful when parallel parking a very steep hill.
Last edited by Lynn; 05-16-2002 at 08:15 PM.
#10
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
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Re: Re: Re: Re: c7 shifter vs. stock shifter
Originally posted by trench
It's doable - but awkward. On an especially steep hill it might be very difficult - I had a little trouble on the steep part of Powell near the top of *** Hill once keeping the car from rolling backward too much while trying to work the brake, clutch and gas all at once.
Of course, if you had a third foot it would be no problem at all.
BT
It's doable - but awkward. On an especially steep hill it might be very difficult - I had a little trouble on the steep part of Powell near the top of *** Hill once keeping the car from rolling backward too much while trying to work the brake, clutch and gas all at once.
Of course, if you had a third foot it would be no problem at all.
BT
thanks for your help!
Beth
#11
Originally posted by Lynn
The insructor taught me how to use disengage parking brake, engage the clutch and gentley press the throttle to start from a dead stop. I told him this seems silly, can't I just keep my right foot on the brake, and when the time comes release the brake, move my foot to the throttle, and engage the clutch. He told me to try it. I rolled back about three feet the first time. That was the last time in 36 years I have ever rolled back more than a few inches. My question is this. Do people really use the parking brake to start from a dead stop on a hill? The whole idea boggles my mind!
Edit: I wrote the above after reading Beths's original post, and with out reading the rest. I can see how the parking brake might be useful when parallel parking a very steep hill.
The insructor taught me how to use disengage parking brake, engage the clutch and gentley press the throttle to start from a dead stop. I told him this seems silly, can't I just keep my right foot on the brake, and when the time comes release the brake, move my foot to the throttle, and engage the clutch. He told me to try it. I rolled back about three feet the first time. That was the last time in 36 years I have ever rolled back more than a few inches. My question is this. Do people really use the parking brake to start from a dead stop on a hill? The whole idea boggles my mind!
Edit: I wrote the above after reading Beths's original post, and with out reading the rest. I can see how the parking brake might be useful when parallel parking a very steep hill.
Funny, but the car I drove prior to the Merc was the first one I ever had with a hand-brake, and before it I never had any problems - but believe me, you can get addicted to the hand brake in a big hurry. As Yoda would say - Unlearn bad habits you must.
:p
BT
#12
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
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Lynn,
Thanks! I knew you would have an idea about this one. Your memory must be pretty good to remember the other car I looked at was the RSX (which shifted so well, I just did not like the rest of the car).
Well, it good to know that the C7 package shifts better. I really miss drving a stick.
Yes, Lynn, you need to use the e-brake to park near my house. I see people get in so much trouble all the time because they don't know that trick. And you can smell them blowing their clutch. The slope on the hill outside my house is 31 degrees.
Thanks
Beth
Thanks! I knew you would have an idea about this one. Your memory must be pretty good to remember the other car I looked at was the RSX (which shifted so well, I just did not like the rest of the car).
Well, it good to know that the C7 package shifts better. I really miss drving a stick.
Yes, Lynn, you need to use the e-brake to park near my house. I see people get in so much trouble all the time because they don't know that trick. And you can smell them blowing their clutch. The slope on the hill outside my house is 31 degrees.
Thanks
Beth
Last edited by galaxygrrl; 05-16-2002 at 08:33 PM.
#13
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From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
My opinion, FWIW
I've tried both the "Evolution" (C7 in USA) shifter and the regular one - the regular one on the car I drove was very fluid and nice to use, whereas the Evo one was notchy into first (from neutral) and from first to second.
So it seems it's the luck of the draw to some extent.
Bos wrote a while back that the shifters of both types are adjustable, so maybe therein lies the apparent inconsistency between opinions.
So it seems it's the luck of the draw to some extent.
Bos wrote a while back that the shifters of both types are adjustable, so maybe therein lies the apparent inconsistency between opinions.
#14
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From: Gaithersburg, MD
2002 C240 6-spd (ret)
Can't help it, but I must...
Originally posted by galaxygrrl
Thanks Rick, I'm hoping to avoid going to test drive it, but your post makes me think I should. To be honest, I really just want the door handles especially if I don't get black. I really do not like the c7 wheels (no one shoot me please).
Thanks Rick, I'm hoping to avoid going to test drive it, but your post makes me think I should. To be honest, I really just want the door handles especially if I don't get black. I really do not like the c7 wheels (no one shoot me please).
#15
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
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OK, OK, OK, I'll go test drive it. Fair point.
Let me point out, if the dealer would sell me a car that worked, I would not have this problem. And for the record, I've never asked a dealer for a new car. Please lay blame where it belongs before aiming both your barrels at me.
Cheers,
Beth
Let me point out, if the dealer would sell me a car that worked, I would not have this problem. And for the record, I've never asked a dealer for a new car. Please lay blame where it belongs before aiming both your barrels at me.
Cheers,
Beth
Last edited by galaxygrrl; 05-16-2002 at 09:25 PM.
#16
C7 is FAR FAR better than the regular shifter. Agree w/Rick about the shape but that's all. The throws are much shorter, crisper and more defined between gates. I remember missing many shifts on aggresive changes and the manual being one of my few dissapointments on the non C7 car I tested. If you could find the gear it engaged a bit smoother as I recall whereas the the C7 seems to "pop" into gear. Its still somewhat of a matter of preference I guess. Final word - test them both and see what u think.
#17
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
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I have no problem test driving a car, it's just there were no C7s to test drive when I bought mine. But given hphan offer, that's not a problem now.
#18
Beth, The problem is that they are all different in the way they shift. I test drove a C7, and it seemed smoother than my quite notchy non C7. Others report the C7's are notchier. You can drive 2 non-C7's or 2 C7's and they would feel different. Hell, mine feels different everytime I shift it on the 1st to 2nd shift. Drive one of each, but make sure you drive the one you are going to buy extensively, to make sure you are happy with the way it shifts. My trans shifts quite differently when it is hot vs when it is cold, so drive it enough to see if you like it. BTW, I agree with you on the wheels-I like the look of the stock wheels better, but I wish you could get them in 17's. I was reading EVO (a european car mag) and it showed the A class evolution package, and it had the exact same wheels as the C coupe C7 package-same pedals, too.
#19
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
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Originally posted by speedfrk
make sure you drive the one you are going to buy extensively, to make sure you are happy with the way it shifts.
make sure you drive the one you are going to buy extensively, to make sure you are happy with the way it shifts.
Thanks though
Beth
#20
i really don't think there is any difference between the regular 6-spd and the those with the wheel pkg C7.
if the C7 really have a shorter throw shifter wouldn't MB had noted in their website and on the 2002 catalog?
i found this on the MB web as the detail of what is the C7 package:
-
2002 Options
C7: Wheel Package
Four 17" 7-spoke alloy wheels with 225/45 ZR17 high-performance tires. Color-keyed exterior door handles. Enlarged, polished stainless steel exhaust tip. 3-spoke sport steering wheel with raised thumbgrips. Leather-covered sport shift knob. Rubber-studded aluminum pedals. Patterned aluminum door sill applique's.
-
they only say that the shift knob is covered with leather nothing more.
this is the picture that goes with the text:
if the C7 really have a shorter throw shifter wouldn't MB had noted in their website and on the 2002 catalog?
i found this on the MB web as the detail of what is the C7 package:
-
2002 Options
C7: Wheel Package
Four 17" 7-spoke alloy wheels with 225/45 ZR17 high-performance tires. Color-keyed exterior door handles. Enlarged, polished stainless steel exhaust tip. 3-spoke sport steering wheel with raised thumbgrips. Leather-covered sport shift knob. Rubber-studded aluminum pedals. Patterned aluminum door sill applique's.
-
they only say that the shift knob is covered with leather nothing more.
this is the picture that goes with the text:
#21
The shifters have a different part #. Bos actually changed his out for a C7 part # shifter, and it is indeed different. He posted pictures. If you do a search, you can find the thread. I was quite pissed when I found out there were actually mechanical differences since my sales person said it was all cosmetic.
#22
Originally posted by speedfrk
The shifters have a different part #. Bos actually changed his out for a C7 part # shifter, and it is indeed different. He posted pictures. If you do a search, you can find the thread. I was quite pissed when I found out there were actually mechanical differences since my sales person said it was all cosmetic.
The shifters have a different part #. Bos actually changed his out for a C7 part # shifter, and it is indeed different. He posted pictures. If you do a search, you can find the thread. I was quite pissed when I found out there were actually mechanical differences since my sales person said it was all cosmetic.
maybe MB do that to give the C7 pkg a shorter feel. don't really know.
the best way is that someone email MBUSA and find out...
#23
Another C7 difference.
Next time you are on the MB lot, drop down and look under a couple of coupes. The C7's don't have the exhaust resonator.
There is no mention of this in any of the promotions I have seen.
Here in Canada they don't call it C7, it called the Evolution package and comes with floor mats embroidered with Evolution.
See ya, Smoky
There is no mention of this in any of the promotions I have seen.
Here in Canada they don't call it C7, it called the Evolution package and comes with floor mats embroidered with Evolution.
See ya, Smoky
#25
Originally posted by FrankW
i don't think there is mechanical difference after examim the picture the only difference from what i can see if the connecting rod. one is bend and one is straight.
maybe MB do that to give the C7 pkg a shorter feel. don't really know.
the best way is that someone email MBUSA and find out...
i don't think there is mechanical difference after examim the picture the only difference from what i can see if the connecting rod. one is bend and one is straight.
maybe MB do that to give the C7 pkg a shorter feel. don't really know.
the best way is that someone email MBUSA and find out...
Go here for more pics etc.