hanke

In a thread below, Rick states that "2002's have the M-111 engine, thats a desirable and functional feature compared the the new motor". Can someone please explain why the M-111 is more desireable?

Thanks

mctwin2kman

It had the ability to be pullied cheaply and gain 25-30 hp and 30 ft.lbs of tourque for about $600. It also had a slightly better tourque curve. The M271 gets a mile or two more per gallon and has more boost and is a quiter motor. I have driven coupe's with both engines and the diference stock is negligeable to most people. With an Automatic Tranny you notice the diference the most due to the lower tourque curve on the M111 the car seems to do better with less downshifting. I have a 6 speed and my M271 powered coupe does just fine, even at 75+ MPH without needing me to ever downshift unless I really want to overtake someone quickly and fast. The M271 powered cars have a lower rear gear than the M111's to compensate for the diferent tourque curve and that helps the vehicle accelerate slightly quicker than a stock M111 or the same. There are pulley kits available for the M271 engine now but no one with Dyno's to prove what gains are achieved. If the M271 Pulley kits can get 20-25 more Hp like the M111's it should be a nice deal. Considering the lower gear ration on the M271 equiped cars. Really when it comes down to it they both have there strengths and weakness' and most would not be dissapointed with either.

Edit: M111 stock boost is 7 psi and M271's stock boost is 11 psi BTW.

Oil Change

are pully safe? or they might hurt the engine?

BabyBenz6spd

Pulley's are safe.......however they will definitly void your warrenty...

Sauceboy01

well, i'll be going in to Evosport tomorow and getting a baseline dyno on the car! Then they will start taking some measurements so that soon we can all get some aftermarket performance parts for our M271 engines.

I'll keep you all posted.

-Danny

Saprissa

Most people on this forum believe that tuning shop pulleys are safe... However no one has had a pulley long enough to find out what the long term damages are on the power tranny and camshaft.

Mechanical engineers will tell you NOT to do it ! They have Mercedes running for over 10+ years.

Salesmen and racers will tell you to go for it ! They sell their Mercedes after 2-3 years.

It's your choice. If I were to do it, I would go for the proven KLEEMANN, CARLSSON or BRABUS set ups that involve more than just pulleys. Because the pulleys alone don't make the car ! But now we're talking $1000's not $100's.

Carlos

Saprissa@aol.com

Rick

I agree with what Mctwin posted....but I refer to the torque curves as well as the displacement of the two engines. I have a 2002 coupe with the 2.3 liter M-111 and a six speed. The M-271 is a 1.8 liter with more boost and less displacement.
I have driven coupes and sedans with both engines and auto trans. The torque picks up sooner with the M-111, regardless of the transmission. It's not exactly a "kick you in the seat of the pants" difference, but it's something I just....feel. I've had heavily mod'ed cars, and I know the difference. The 1.8 M271 is a good, solid aluminum block, but it needs the extra boost to match performance. I'd be wary of tweaking this engine too much because from an engineering standpoint, it's close to it's max limitations when it rolls out of the showroom (my humble opinion).
I do not have a pulley, and have not done any major mods for performance (maybe after the warranty runs out if I don't trade it in). My main point is that the older, iron block engine offers more torque at less boost, and therefor is probably more reliable. After all, Mercedes has used the same 2.3 liter iron block design as the M-111 (albeit with different heads, obviously) since 1953.

SergC

What about Renntech Guys ?
I was thinking to get a pully kit,ECU and an exhaust from them ( $2195 )

mctwin2kman

Well I guess we have to hope that the M271 block and heads are built to the same stringent engine specs as the M111 was. Also hey if VW's 1.8 can handle the boost enough to push past 275Hp then I would hope the M271 could handle a few more psi, to push it to 220-225Hp...

Yeah I think the M102 engine in my 190E is the same block as the M111!


SergC yeah the Renntech is good as well. Hopefully someone will do before and after dyno's and purchase one of the available kits so we can see what these tuners are getting!

scottisha

My biggest concern with doing a pulley is the fact that this new engine has an aluminum block. I also have a 2002 GTI 337 1.8t. The 1.8t VW block is cast iron and has five main bearings compared to the four main bearings in the VR6 motor.
I've put 59k miles on my GTI since new and the past 28k miles have been with 285 hp and 299.5 ft/lbs at the wheels. At 57k miles I had Aristocrat VW do a leak down and compresion test. Both tests showed the motor to have no wear. Seriously, the leakdown showed all four cylinders to be "at or less than" 3% and the compression was near exactly the same as a new motor.

If I do go with some type of pulley kit for my M271, then I will only go with a tuner offering revised fuel, air and timing to compliment the pulley. I think it's best to spend the money on a complete package that has been well tested.

I would think that MB would build a strong bottom end, even if it's made out of alumium, but only time and beta testers will tell.......

Scott

SergC

Mctwin2kman,I think I will do it after the SEMA in november,I 'l ask about dyno before and after.
Also I'm thinking about Renntech wheels 8.5/9.2x18 on235/255 Pilots...
I'l post the results