MiKeSSw203

It's good to know I'm not the only one with M271 pulleys on the brain

Maybe they will be out in 2 more months

C230SportsCoupe

Any updates from PowerChip on the ECU progress for those of us with the Renntech dampened pulleys?

BadAssC230k

can't we just slip a roll of duct tape over the pulley? lmao

nuclearhappines

there may be no peak gains from the pulley, however there are up to 15hp worth of power band gains from 2000 to 5500 rpms ...

that's worth something. .. however renntech is already producing that basic pulley kit

the m45/mp45 is small and punchy... if you want power... you either make the m45/mp45 operate at lower psi's (Where it's more effecient) ...which means head work, cams, and larger displacement... there is potentially 30hp in that path and a reduction in inlet temps by 40*s (pre intercooler temps).

the other way to go is a centrifugal or m62 conversion pacakge

so if i were to make anything for the car i'd make cams, and a 7500 rpm chip :p

C230SportsCoupe

Interesting.

I have a shop willing to port my mp45 and a member on MBKlasse that posted a 8hp gain from this mod.

There is a lot of room for low-end gain before the ECU kills high-end, especially with making flow better (header, bore TB, port SC) and that would make the car a lot more fun as a daily driver even if peak HP never increases.

I only worry about the ECU kicking in the timing kill earlier (it happens @ ~5.5K with the Renntech pulley dynos) with more boost being generated.

The M271 needs a ECU solution before big gains can be attempted.

linkmustang

so what up with this

C230SportsCoupe

I think its dead, no word from EvoSport.

The Renntech pulley is a great alternative for now, and some have started having luck with ECU piggyback devices like Kleemann's KBox.

At this point I'd bite the bullet and buy the Kleemann pulley + KBox, then wait on the header dyno from CarLab.

otoupalik

none of the pulleys on the market are making real reliable power. The add-on boxes do not control the torque limiter, all they do is add fuel. That is why some are seeing gains - more fuel.

We have a pulley done and can sell it with an add-on like the others, but it is artificial and you will not get what you are paying for.

Until we can get a real solution to the ECU, we will not put our name on a product in the market.

Thanks
Brad

mig888

While we're all at it, I'll be looking into a C230 with a combination of the Renntech pulley, custom FPR, custom headers and custom chip tuning (to eliminate the need of a piggy back) in the near future. I personally had some pretty good luck with the Kleemann pulley kit + KBox (but I too had some chip tuning on top of it).

The infamous banned Taylor192 (now only found on the other forum) has the Renntech pulley and headers - all I think he'd need is for someone to figure out fuel pressure and come up with a good ECU tune - but his progress is notable and I'm following along quite diligently .

flip

mig888

So how much would the pulley kit be approximately - and would you guys sell the pulley by itself. Always good to know that there are alternatives for further testing.

flip

otoupalik

I do have a pulley available. If you want to do some independent testing, I can arrange a special one time deal most likely - email me!

Thanks
Brad

C230SportsCoupe

Fair enough.

Are you willing to comment on PowerChip's progress on the Seimens ECU? and/or Evosports relationship with PowerChip to try to get this done - ie is PowerChip independently investigating this and Evosport awaiting results, or is Evosport sponsoring this and can maybe lend some muscle to getting it done?

Could you possibly explain in detail a little more about why the ECU solution is preferred over just dumping more fuel and fooling the ECU to not back off timing? I'm new to this yet would love to learn more.

drexappeal

Nice. Sorry, bro. Been so busy the past few days, but did you get my voicemail? I'll call you as soon as I get a chance.

nuclearhappines

brad, your honesty rocks...

-nuke

Sauceboy01

We need a more serious tuner on this that really knows what their doing..

linkmustang

so when will this be out

C230SportsCoupe

No we don't, we need a more serious car community that is willing to pay for this mod. We were all spoiled with the ease to mod the 2.3L cheap and no-one wants to pony up the $$$ to mod the 1.8L.

I'm interested in what Brad meant. All the dynos have indicated a pulley loses HP at the high end, yet we all thought it was pulling fuel and timing and the piggyback ECus fooll the ECU into not doing this.

What do you mean by "torque limiter"? I thought this term was used in trannies and clutches to hold power while shifting...???

otoupalik

Sorry guys, been tied up for the last few days.

I am willing to comment. Powerchip and evosport are BOTH investigating this, in unison and independently. We are utilizing all resources (domestic and abroad) to get the code to make this happen. However, the only sources the may have it are VERY expensive and are not able to guarantee that they can address the torque limiting issue.

More or less fuel and/or timing is great. However, the torque limiting feature built into this car will actually bleed boost off before the motor. If it sees that the motor is producing torque in excess of the window the factory sets, it will bleed of the boost. Therefore, more fuel and timing will not do anything but waste money (fuel) and make the motor ping (detonation from too much timing and not the proper air/fuel ratio).

BTW, the piggy-back boxes that are used by many (including us on some applications) are only able to control fuel. Some VERY new ones can do timing, but they are prototypes and not in wide circulation.

Thanks, I tend to agree with you. For those that do not know, we are a very serious tuner with full engine building on site, an engineering department, access to the most sophisticated machines and technical resources, here and in europe and japan.

However, to break this torque limiting code is a serious order. It really takes a back-door into Siemans (someone who is willing to give the code out), and that it VERY expensive (ten's of thousands of dollars). Now, we do have access to people, but 1. they are not sure they can support helping in finding the code that will address torque limitation (Mercedes invested a lot of IP to make this a part of the code, and it is not a simple on or off switch) and 2. we are not sure we could sell enough to recoup the costs of such information.

Does thie clear it up for you guys? I hope so. It IS a bit esoteric and very frustrating.

Thanks
Brad

BadAssC230k

frustrating indeed. maybe ill just get headers and exhaust and call it a year for the c230 :o/

C230SportsCoupe

Thanks Brad,

That was very informative, yet I'm afraid to ask a stupid question: why not tackle the boost bleed off (purge valve?) with a piggy back ECU rather than timing and fuel?

I wish I worked for Seimens. I wonder why MB is so secretive with this when they are in a HP war with other manufacturers. You'd think if there's more power to be had they'd let us access to it, do they do the same with the other engines? Do you think this engine can handle 250-300 crank hp on stock internals?

Cheers!

otoupalik

I wish it was that simple. A piggy-back will not accomplish that, I wish it did.

They do the same with ALL cars in the range now. All the makers are really anti-aftermarket these days.

Frustrating is that we have about 5-6K tied up in development so far and may never be able to sell anything.

Thanks
Brad

ZAKON

Absolutely correct!

StealthAuto

Brad,

WELL SAID!

-Aaron

drexappeal

This thread came back from the dead...

StillKickin

Its worse, I spent my whole accounting and ethics classes reading this thread and not looking at the dates, excited that there are pulleys...im an idiot and midterms are next week....