Outland

Cluck Cluck

nlpamg

I'm in too! As long as they can give me a decent price on the unit/install at their shop, I'm down. Also, how difficult/expensive would it be to remove before trading it in?

Sauceboy01

well, if done properly this shouldn't stress the engine.

Right on the names are popping up. I'll have to show them the number of people that want in when this kit is released. Maybe it'll push them to make more stuff.

I'm glad finally a company is willing to start tuning our cars.. Halleluljiah!

-Danny

Sauceboy01

well here is a list of the possibly Group Buy Potentials.

1.CitronC230k 03
2.Scottisha
3.JakeSnake
4.nlpamg

if anyone else is interested please let me know.

THANKS.

-Danny

nlpamg

Sorry for asking stupid questions, but why haven't companies been willing to tune our cars?

Also, how will this affect the warranty?

Thanks!

Sauceboy01

Dont worry, not a stupid question at all.

Mostly it's because no companies out there really saw any profit from tuning our cars, and would aim to more high end cars. Evosport has been getting a lot of feedback and so they decided to start developing performance parts for our cars.

If they see good results, then that shouldn't stop them from making more parts.

By law, no modification you do to a car effects your waranty and no mod will void your waranty. The dealer has to prove that the particular mod that you put on the car caused a specific problem. So say one day you blow your motor. (the odds are slim) and you take it in and the dealer see's that you have a pulley kit. They legally cannot void your waranty until they prove that that particular mod caused the engine to fail.

and they cannot void your full waranty, they can only void that aspect of your repair. So say you have a pulley kit, and you take your car in for a malfunctioning window. The dealer cannot void your waranty for that..

get it?

-Danny

kiketron

I'm definitely in!

vadim

Any tuning puts extra stress on the engine, done "properly" or not. The problem that many see with M271 vs. M111 is that it is already tuned to a much higher degree and may not take the extra boost too well. The most noticeable hint - and you reported it yourself - the loss of power with each consecutive dyno run (not so prominent in case of M111!). If you add even more boost, it will likely be nullified by the inefficient intercooler. Another point is the supercharger itself - it has an RPM limit, after which it loses its efficiency and starts robbing the engine of power.

I am not trying to rain on many folks' so-much-anticipated parade - just warning that there may be a few clowds that may spoil the party.

You should have read debates of this kind when pullies for the M111 were still in the works - PC screens were glowing of heat. It turned out that the M111 has an ample tuning capacity, and this has been proven by time. I sure hope that the M271 will fare just as well.

breastroker

Before we do any supercharger pulley changes someone (Evosport) should get the other pullies taken care of. Only those with a 1000 watts or more of speakers need the full output of the stock alternator, it is a huge power drain at each RPM level. If that is made larger then other pullies must also change in size. Kleeman makes this part of each of their kits. Perhaps a larger PS pulley and a slightly larger water pump pulley? Then we deffinately will need a smaller idler pulley!

If Vadim can get the same HP gain as what is found using similiar pulleys on the C320 cars, about 6-10 HP, then all of us can gain that 6 HP first. Then going to either a smaller supercharger pulley or a larger crank pulley will get the M271 up to 220 HP. Kleeman and Vaath and other Euro tuners get this in short bursts. Combined with a better intercooler and a chip designed for each power level should keep the power at the higher level.

No one has been brave enough, but BMW Mini drivers have long gone to smaller split supercharger pulleys. It looks like the pulley off a BMW Mini like Alta @http://outmotoring.com/alta_supercharger_pulley.html
or a Ford type pulley in 2.70 or 2.60 inches @http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

or the Eurosport pulley @ http://outmotoring.com/eurosport_su...ger_pulley.html

Both Alta and Eurosport make split pulleys, pull the original one off with a good puller, thenjust press with your fingers the two piece pulley and bolt together!!!

Below is the Alta


Here is something to think about: "STEEL SUPERCHARGER PULLEYS - No one offers more steel pulleys for the Kenne Bell Twin Screw and Eaton Roots superchargers - because pulleys and superchargers are our business and not a sideline. Supercharger/driven pulleys are only 1/3 the diameter of crank/drive pulleys and therefore spin at approximately 3 times the speed of the crank - 750 ft/sec. This equates to over an 1/8 mile per second! That's a lot of heat and friction. Could that be why the OEM's use steel supercharger pulleys exclusively? It's precisely why Kenne Bell has never used the softer aluminum supercharger pulleys with serpentine belts - and never will. We use only durable long life high grade plated steel for both Kenne Bell and Eaton superchargers. It's common practice to switch pulleys to vary boost levels for street, weekend racing etc. Kenne Bell Steel Pulleys can be quickly and easily replaced with one bolt using the Kenne Bell Pulley Wrench (Twin Screw) or the Kenne Bell Billet Pulley Puller (Eaton). Stock Eaton pulleys are pressed on, constructed of relatively soft high lead material and are therefore easily bent by "old style" pullers when removed. Reinstallation is also difficult, requiring a press if a good installation tool is not available. Kenne Bell Steel Pulleys are virtually indestructible. Big selection. Precision machined steel and plated for corrosion resistance. "

breastroker

Oh by the way, I am in for any group buy or dyno stuff

xxbenzc230kxx

count me in.. ive been waiting for a pulley for ever.. let me kno wussup!!.. this sounds like its getting ready for a group buy...sounds like a plan

CitronC230K_03

LOL!

Buellwinkle

In what?

breastroker

Here is the problem as I see it, below is the M271 in my Coupe, with Evosport installed C32 brakes. At the bottom left is the stock alternator pulley, very small and easy to make larger. This should be the same upgrade as the C320 alternator pulley!

At the top is the power steering pulley. To the right of it is the water pump pulley. As you can see there is not much room between these two, about a half an inch. To free up power either or both could be made larger in diameter to reduce HP loss. It may not be worth it though as they are so big now.

breastroker

Here is the supercharger pulley on the right and the idler pulley on the left. Mini people have 15% and 19% smaller supercharger pullies, and Ford Eaton users go as low as 2.70 and 2.60 inches!

The idler pilley could be made smaller by using a stock MB or BMW or Audi idler pulley.

The real problem of the M271 is the supercharger runs out of pumping ability at top engine RPM. I don't see it as a problem, it just limits damage to the engine naturally. What we want to see is a HP increase where we can use it, from 2500 to 5800 RPM. In effect we move the HP curve lower. Having 20 more HP between 3000 and 5500 RPM would be huge.

Buellwinkle

Now what you need is to make a device to pull the S/C pulley off while it's still on the car. ASP sells a pulley extractor but you need a way to get in there. What do you think Wayne, anything that can come off easily to provide access?

aries palmiotto

It is a legitimate concern and question.

Increasing the boost of your S/C means increasing the normal speed of the turbines/screws. There are engineering reasons why the S/C's are running at the speeds that the factory designed it for.

From what I understand, you also have the clutch mechanism which engages and disengages at specified spindle speeds. Should you increase the speed of your drive belt, such timing of when the clutch engages and disengages also changes.

Most tuning companies take these limits at its mechanical thresholds. As Vadim stated, proper or wrong upgrades places additional stress on the engine. More power equals more stress and unlike the human body, engines cannot build additional muscle as it gets worked out.

So let's assume that even if my theories are somewhat mixed up, allow me to pose a question...

So what if, since no two like engines are identical, you end up with a lemon engine. And at the point where you installed a pulley to increase your blower speed, you reach the break point???

My question goes back.... what do you do?

Sauceboy01

well, at this point just like turbo engines, it's all going to fare the same. I tuned my WRX to 330 hp at the fly and drove that thing for 2 years straight and HARD, w/ 0 problems whatsoever.. Now ofcourse when you get to the higher mileages like 90,000 + then you may eventually encounter some stress related issues. That is the case w/ most engine modifications. I personally think the M271 will fare nicely w/ a pulley upgrade. But ofcourse time will tell, but i'm not worried whatsoever.

-Danny

Ben'sCLK

Okay so I'm interested in more power too but since I'm in Ireland, drive a CLK200 Kompressor it seem that I'm a loner !!

My car is 2003, with the 1.8 engine giving 163BHP. I believe the Sport Coupe C230K has the same 1.8 engine but give 193BHP !

Anyone know what the difference is ?? I'd sure like to know what MB changed and hopefully its a bolt on jobbie!

Anyone ?

breastroker

aries,
I the W203 C class engines, neither the 2.3L M111 engine, nor the 1.8L M271 engine use a clutch as you stated "you also have the clutch mechanism which engages and disengages at specified spindle speeds. Should you increase the speed of your drive belt, such timing of when the clutch engages and disengages also changes". You should really bone up on your engines before commenting.

There are at least 6 companies, including major European tuners that have produced pulley kits for the M111 engine. I have not seen one major engine damage due to over boost damage to the engine. Yes, there are problems with the pulleys themselves, but most issues are solved. There at 3 companies that make kits for the M271 now, although very expensive. ($2500)

With the M271 engine, Mercedes has put more technology and effort into this engine. Designed for high boost (11+ stock) every thing is there to run slightly higher boost. By that I mean 12-16 PSI. Not 20-30 like some turbo kits!

Being a smaller bore it should rev higher than 6,200 RPM, but that is not the limiting factor, the supercharger speed is.

Every dyno posted by people the last 2 years show the peak power (about 158-163 HP) going way down after 6,000 RPM.

A larger crank pulley or a smaller supercharger pulley means at say 3000 RPM on the freeway at 75 MPH, currently the supercharger pulley is turning 8,000 RPM. Going 10% would mean the supercharger would be turning 8,800 RPM, perhaps a 20 HP increase at that point.

Now at max RPM, 6,200; the supercharger would be turning 16,500 stock! It is already maxed out and power loss and heat production actually causes a net power loss. With a 10% supercharger pulley this will occure earlier in the RPM band, that is unless we remove more heat through a better intercooler.

Buellwinkle,
I think the only way to work on the supercharger is to remove the snout if possible, or the entire supercharger. There are several companies that make pulley extractors, I think Autowerks said the Maybach one works best

Once the stock pulley is off, a split, self aligning pulley with the ability to use different ratios would be cool! The Minis use 15% and 19% smaller pulleys.

I would like to start with a 10 % smaller and work up to a 15 %

mctwin2kman

I am in as well for the possible GB.

Buellwinkle

Damm, now I'll have to buy a Maybach.

aries palmiotto

Thank you for the explanation. That was the answer I was looking for.

Well stated!

tyro

Well, I put my left foot in and took my right foot out, did the hokey pokey....

Sauceboy01

btw, they are going to be changing the Crank pulley, the power steering pulley, and the alternator pulley.

-Danny