Jcapp3078

Okay, here are the details. I drive an '02 C230 with 4100 miles. I changed the oil at 2000 using a topsider and switching to Valvoline 5w-40. This weekend I was going to trek around 400 miles. Therefore, I checked everything including the oil before the trip. The FSS told me the oil level was fine. The dipstick had the oil about 4 mark below the max. I therefore left it alone. Now for the good part. I came back from my journey and let the FSS do its thing. It told me to add one quart. Being a bit on the inqusitive side, I took a peak at the dipstick. The oil was in the same exact place it was before I left. Nevertheless, I added enough oil out of a new bottle of oil to bring the oil to the max mark on the dipstick. This was approximately 16oz of oil--no means 1 quart. Ran the engine and again checked with the FSS. The time it told me the oil level was okay. What gives here. Am I missing something. It almost seems, in my limited experience with the FSS, that it tells you to do stuff at predetermined intervals. My take on all this is as follows. Mercedes used a dumb computer in the C230. Therefore, they determined that after 4000 new miles the car should be about a quart down. The programers took into consideration the break-in with Mobil 1 and the extra oil burn off during this period. I guess they figured most car buyer would not bother to get there hands dirty checking the dipstick and adding oil when it was just a bit low. Oh! there were a few instance where the FSS stated the oil level was okay but I would top it off with a few oz. Now that I think about it, all those topoffs would have been about a quart over the 4000 miles.

What do you all think. Do we have a dumb computer, or do we have a dumb owner. In short, I am now going to start a log when I add oil. I am going to use the dipstick to keep the oil at the max level, and I am then going to see when the FSS tells me to add oil again.

Buellwinkle

I trust only the dipstick and not the computer. The computer tells me to add oil when the dipstick says it's full. Took it to the dealer and they agree with the dipstick and added a few onces of oil to get the computer to read full.

MarkL

We've already determined that only the C230's (and maybe not all of them) have dipsticks. I've got a C240, so I rely on the FSS system to check my oil level. I've got 8200 miles and the level is still reading "OK".

As far as I know, the only thing pre-determined by the FSS is the base-line 10K miles bewteen service intervals. From what we've been told by some of the techs, there are several sophisticated sensors which monitor oil level, degree of contamination, temperature, etc. The base-line 10K service interval will be modified by the FSS if necessary based on driving conditions, time elapsed, etc. There's no pre-set timing when it tells you to add oil. I understand there may be some amount of discrepancy between the physical dipstick and the computer reading of the level, but I would think the instruction by FSS to add oil is not based on time or miles, but by the actual level. Also, I read that the FSS will modify time left to service if additional oil is added. Have you checked your miles remaining to service "A"?

Jcapp3078

Yes, I have checked the miles remaining. Nothing changes with adding oil or doing oil changes. I only think the FSS updates that info on some of the other C class models. I was quite shocked to see that the FSS told me I was a quart low. Especially since I checked it a prior to my driving. If I went through a quart of oil within 400 miles of driving, something is wrong. What gets me, is that 16oz not only filled the car according to the dipstick, but it also registered is okay using the FSS. This is an area that needs to be looked into. Thankfully we have close to 8 quarts of oil in the system, so driving a bit low is not going to have that much of an impact. However, I am quite **** when it comes to my oil. I just do not like the discrepancy between the dipstick and the FSS. I am going to call Mercedes tomorrow, I will let everyone know what is said. I will say one thing, if I did not have a dipstick, I would go nuts--not that I am not close now

Buellwinkle

According to the MB website, the 4 cyl cars have a very simple FSS and the 6+ cyl cars have the advanced FSS. I believe the C230s FSS does not monitor oil quality but the C240/C320 does. This is why changing oil on a C230 has no effect on the FSS service intervals but would on the sedans.

MarkL

Yeah, let us know. Also, it took me a while to get used to not having a dipstick. I can't understand why all the engines don't come with one even if you choose to let the FSS tell you what to do. I always like to add oil when it's 1/2 quart down. But, like you say, with 8 qts, I guess I qt. low before it tells you is OK. I am a little skeptical though of having driven 8200 miles and it still says "OK".

Mike T.

From MBUSA.com, under C 230 Kompressor Sportcoupé:

"Flexible Service System calculates and displays distance remaining to next regular maintenance service based on actual driving conditions and oil quality."

Which MB website did you get your info from, Buelli?

MarkL, for cars with a dipstick (i.e. the C 230 K and in Europe, some Diesels), the difference between "maximum oil level" and "minimum oil level" is 2.0 litres. So if you're down 1 L according to the FSS or dipstick, the oil level is still in the middle of the operating tolerance.

Buellwinkle

I knew someone was going to make me look it up. OK, this is a cut and paste from their website.....


Since 1998, we've equipped all new Mercedes-Benz vehicles with the Flexible Service System (FSS). An electronic monitor checks the quantity and, on the advanced version in our new family of V6 and V8 vehicles, the condition of your engine oil. A "wrench light" on your dashboard lets you know when it's time for a regular maintenance service.


Click here to read it for yourself

Mike T.

So I looked at your link, and the "click here for more details" link on that page led me to the following:

"The advanced version of FSS also alerts you when your oil level is below minimum or above maximum. It even indicates how much oil you need to add."

According to my owner's manual, the C 230 K has this function, so that must mean that these cars have the "advanced FSS". Right?

This, combined with what MBUSA says under the C 230 K specifications...

"Flexible Service System calculates and displays distance remaining to next regular maintenance service based on actual driving conditions and oil quality."

...makes me believe that the C 230 K has both the "advanced FSS" AND a dipstick.

Silver_Lana

You didnt read the whole thing...

Since 1998, we've equipped all new Mercedes-Benz vehicles with the Flexible Service System (FSS). An electronic monitor checks the quantity and, on the advanced version in our new family of V6 and V8 vehicles, the condition of your engine oil.

That is from that page... without clicking the details link.
I think thats what he was refering to Mike.

Lynn

The FSS is different for the 2.3 liter. https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...&highlight=fss

Mike T.

Actually I DID read that, but assumed it was wrong based upon the other information to the contrary on the MBUSA website.

Based on Lynn's link to the Tech thread, it's obvious that the 2.3 four really DOES have a simpler FSS, but that's not entirely clear from some of the (mis-)information on the MBUSA website.

Thanks everyone for the clarification.

MB-BOB

As Mike T. pointed out, there is quite a range of tolerable oil level, during which the FSS reports everything OK. I know my oil is at 7.5 qts, but the FSS says all is fine. It won't actually tell you it's low until it's at least a quart low (others say it's 1.5 qts).

Why, oh why, would you throw out the Mobil 1 at 2000 miles for Valvoline quasi-synthetic? Previous threads here have tried to convince us all that Mobil 1 is the only 100% synthetic... and the rest are synthetic/petroleum-based BLENDS. (I realize Mobil 1 is a MBUSA policy and that regular oil is used elsewhere. But I wonder if MBUSA will question your warranty if you use anything less than Mobil 1.)

TimmyC230boy

I will go by the dipstick before i use computer.

Jcapp3078

Approved oils for use in the C230 Valvoline SynPower Full Synthetic Motor oil 5w-40. I used this oil in my 1.8t jetta which was running an apr chip. I never had a problem with the oil. Also, the Valvoline website has some good info on this oil. I will trust Valvoline untill I can get the Mobil 1 0w-40. To me the Mobile 1 15w -50 is just to heavy.

Lynn

MB-BOB, I have read that all Mobil-1 grades except 0W-40 now contain significant amounts of reformulated pertoleum. Several years ago, Mobil took some competitors to court over their use of refomulated petroleum and calling it synthetic. By some great leap of logic often shown by our judiciary, the court ruled that reformulated pertroleum is a synthetic lubricant. Recently, Mobil joined their competitors in its use to reduce manufacturing costs.

Many MB dealers do not use Mobil-1. Mine uses Castrol synthetic.

Jcapp3078

I spoke to a technician today regarding FSS oil level post. I explained the problem just as I did in the post. The first question the tech had was how did I check the oil using the dipstick since the car does not have one. I remained speechless for a moment. I ask him what the stick next to the oil filter was. He said I don't know what your talking about the C230 does not have a dipstick. I thus stated that I checked the oil with whatever object comes out of the car with oil on it. I further stated that this object has marks, one stating max. I also said this object does have oil on it. He was still a bit confused, telling me my car does not have a dipstick. After going back and forth for a few minutes, I asked him to go look at a C230, model year 2002--he did. Oh, I'm sorry, I was thinking of the C320.

Nevertheless, he told me that the dipstick would be a more accurate reading of the oil in the vehicle. Actually, he was kind clueless with the entire question. He additionally stated that the FSS could have a bad sensor, and therefore it could be sending wrong information to the computer. He told me just to keep checking the oil using the dipstick untill the first service, at what point I should have the FSS checked. Great response! The entire conversation made me feel real confident about having my car serviced. In the past, I read several post about members' of this board knowing more about the cars than the tech. I now am begining to believe it. It is just so hard to believe that a technician that works on Mercedes all day does not know the difference between the parts of a c320 and a C230. It is a shame that Mercedes Benz USA does not monitor these forums. They could learn a lot about what is going on with their customers and their shops.

Buellwinkle

Sure they are off but somewhat close. Think when they go to drive by wire. We'll see how close they get that.

viper

Not all the technicians that work at MB dealers are top notch.
Some used to work on domestic vehicles.

avlis

Awwww...I wish I was there to hear THAT conversation!

This is why I make every effort to check this board before considering bringing my car in for service. There's a lot of bad information on this board, but the tech's seem to have even worse info!