GDawgC220

Oh yeah, Bosch is one of the major auto part suppliers for the automotive industry. Sharing common parts do cut their costs quite a bit for the company as a whole because now instead of spending money on two different parts, possibly from two different manufacturers, now they only have to spend it at one place for one part.

Since the part is the same, you could probably get say a water pump for much cheaper at a Chrysler dealer than MB dealer (as you know the markups)

pmb600

Well as long as they buy good stuff like Bosch I don't see any problem with sharing parts like this. I do find it funny that the navigation system in the new Sebring looks more advanced than anything Mercedes has yet to offer.

arbittan

You are right, most people will talk about their bad experiences with their cars than make talk about good things.

I will say, I love the acceleration the ML has!

But things MB needs to work on are:
- Service Departments (regardless of ownership)
- Better Interior quality
- Standardizing optional equipment as Standard Equipment (Bluetooth, etc)


I was listening to "Car Talk" here on my AM Dial and one of the callers made a good point. "We do not have cars that look different anymore"

I agree with that statement after I parked my ML next to a Chevy Equinox.....
Side by side they look the same....

Does anyone know if the new C is front wheel or rear wheel drive?

pmb600

Rear wheel or AWD 4Matic will be available in the fall. No Mercedes is front wheel.

PhilipM1

The day Mercedes Benz redefines elegance, performance, and luxury with a front wheel drive car, Is the day I will loose all respect for a 110 year old company.

GDawgC220

Actually, Mercedes does make two front-wheel drive vehicles (just not in the U.S. Market), the A-Class and B-Class.

pmb600

And so far they have rightly kept them away.

GDawgC220

true that

e1000

I'm sorry but this isn't fair. Most likely, the 4WD car will weight significantly more, thereby losing traction first. With the staggered setup of the Sport Sedans, cornering ability is also most often limited by the ammount of traction of the front wheels, not the rear breaking loose. Adding weight and power to the front wheels will only make this understeering effect worse. Not only does 4WD add weight, there are also greater drivetrain losses.

I'm sorry, but RWD is for sport inspired driving.

PhilipM1

I wasnt sure if the b class was fwd, i didnt even know about the a class. European models dont count. europe makes funny cars for good reasons that dotn appeal to america, wich is great. But, when you think of mercedes, nothing lower then a C class should come to mind.

Are those cars wood grain, leather, power seats as options? Or are they really basic?

PhilipM1

Under steer, the loss of TRACTION in the front wheels. Steering wheel turned left, car going straight.

The loss of traction, would be do the fact that no power is turning the front wheels. When the wheel hits a certain angle, the tire cant grip with that much force. If the wheel had power turning it, it will loose traction, but not until a high amount of force is asserted onto the wheel.

When was the last time you saw a 4wd car under steer? Subaru's rally driver puts his life in the hands of engineers that know the best way to receive traction.

Also, a heavier car is going to have downward force onto the ground (weight). Look at how easy it is to spin the tires on a Dodge ram pick up truck in the rain. No weight in the rear end. Put that truck in 4x4 and if you can spin the tires significantly in a straight line ill be very impressed. Ive tried, I failed. I was driving an 05 Dodge 2500 Hemi Magnum 4x4, stock tires.

If any of that seems wrong please correct me. I'm not an engineer. I just know what makes sence in my head, and what Ive personally experienced.

e1000

That's not exactly correct. With a given contact patch and tire, you will have a limited amount of traction. You cannot exceed this traction limit. 4WD cars have a tendancy to be more neutral than both FWD and RWD, but this does not mean that they inherintly have more cornering ability. Regardless of drivetrain configuration, all cars can be pushed beyond it's limits to show either understeer or oversteer, or a neutral slide. A Subaru rally driver is also trained to not exceed this traction limit, therefore he does not go barreling off of a cliff.

Your analogy about the truck is true, but on a sedan, things behave differently. The C-Class has almost a 50/50 weight bias, with a little more going towards the front wheels. Weight over the drive wheels is only advantageous during hard acceleration. That is what you're seeing in the truck. Since it is heavily weight biased towards the front wheels, and you are using your rear wheels to drive the truck, it will spin. Cornering is a bit differently because the weight of the vehicle is not helping traction, as in the weight shift to the rear wheels during acceleration, it is causing the traction problems. So for example, you take a completely neutral car, then add weight to the front, it will understeer, likewise, move it to the rear and it will oversteer.

4WD cars give the illusion of greater cornering ability on dry, paved roads but this is not actually the case.

BTW - both Subaru's and Audi's have a tendancy to understeer beyond the limits of traction.

Capt Nemo o2

A heavier car will have more momentum to overcome when turning making oversteer more possible with everything else the same. 4WD cars understeer very easily when you dont know how to handle a 4WD/AWD car. And the reason why you cant get the Ram truck to spin its tires is because now instead of all the torque going to the back wheels only, its being divided by 4 instead of two. Therefore there is a larger margin between the amount of torque being applied and the amount required to make them loose traction. Also power is being lost due to higher drive train loss and spinning mass. A FWD car will spin the tires more easily than a RWD or 4/AWD due to weight transfer during acceleration. During braking when entering a turn, it doesnt matter which wheels drive the car, but if your front tires are close to the limit of traction and apply power to the front wheels, they will be more likely to spin. Same with RWD and 4/AWD but with the appropriate drive wheels.

Now as far as 4/AWD being more sportier and better handling than RWD... Audi has a driving school to teach people how to drive fast with AWD. Basically because all 4 wheels can drive the car, when you are in a turn the weight transfer to the outside tires can be used to your advantage. With R & FWD you would only have one tire with weight on it, where AWD has two. If you drive a AWD car like you would a RWD car it would not be as fast in the corners, but if you learn how to drive AWD right, you can actually get better times.

sorry if I went on a tangent... just really bored!

PhilipM1

+1 to each. I like you guys. I learned more in 3 minutes of reading then all my years of driving (3 lol) but Ive got over 100,000 miles under my ***.

So, given the same car, same tires, same conditions. RWD vs. 4matic. Which car will loose control first off the line wet, and on a dry turn?

P.S. I hope no one cares if I post in w204 w203 w202 forums, not a whole lot goes on in w201. and not a lot of people reply to my post there. But, I figure if i can learn more, do so, if i can share my opinion do so.


What was the main topic of this thread again ? we got onto a rwd 4matic debate. lol.

the new w204 is growing on me. I want to know if its the car being released in NY april 4th. maybe a black edition AMG coupe c?

e1000

off the line, 4WD will always jump ahead, dry or wet. In the wet, the 4WD car will simply embarrass the RWD car. In dry, the RWD will SLOWLY reel back the 4WD car.

dude - you can post wherever you want!

Oh yeah, the original intent of the thread. - I have no idea why they always treat the C-class differently. No other model line has a separate sport model, rather it is a sport package. Dosen't make any sense. I also agree that the C350 should be available as a 6-speed. I guess the 2006-2007's C350 Sport 6-speeds will be very special cars.

PhilipM1

Two words.

Paddle Shift.


By far my favorite thing. I dorve a lambo gulardo or soemthing when I was a valet for the Grand Hyatt in Tampa Bay. That was awsome. And yes, when you have a badass car, and you let the valet drive it, and he takes it where you cant see him, he will stomp on it! I had to take that one around back because it was too low to make the dip to go underground parking.

Around back was one of the greatest events in my life.


I think mercedes. should come up with a paddle shift/automatic transimsion for the sport edition.

2 friends of mine, one drive a BMW330i and one has an M3. The 330i is modded to be just as fast as the M3, only difference is the paddle shifting M3 takes him going into second because the car shifts so freaking fast.

Also, the C class probably get treated differently because its the US entry level MB. Granted the c350 is like 40k or more? They have to give the other models extra. Or else why by the E class? when you can get everythign yuo want out fo the c? I think mercedes has too many models to be profitable. I think they would sell more cars if they had less chasis and more features to add on. Im also not a marketing director for mercedes so what do I know?

e1000

pretty sure the new sport models will have paddle shifters. The CLK has them now on the non-AMG models too. From the interior shots, the interior pic of the 3 spoke steering wheel (assuming it's the sport model) has paddle shifters as well.

PhilipM1

Not that I can afford one. But I like paddle shift. and if i dont want to shift is there an automatic mode?

e1000

yeah - it's always automagic - once you hit the downshift paddle, it will go manual. it will still upshift if you hit redline and downshift if you decelerate enough however.

PhilipM1

you know if you have an ecplipse, and you put it in 2 it stays in two, unless you stop! I liek that. Its true manualmatic. If you red line itntacs out adn yells at you. If you slow down it stays in the gear you want. MY cousin had a CTS and you could be doing 120 in 1st. lol. you put it in first at the lights, and it shifted through all the gears. it was a waste of space. That could have been one more cup holder there.

pmb600

Basically I started the thread to b**** about MBUSA's typical lack of offerings and basically dumbing down US W204 models so that less features are available than Euro counterparts.

I'm not saying that dealers should order loaded C-Classes or 6-speed C350s since I know that most C-Class buyers are not looking for all the "bells and whistles." I just wish that through the special order process there were featuers that we could get if we wanted (for example Parktronic). If you configure an Audi online there are a few options that are "special order only" meaning that you will only find them if a car was ordered by a specific customer; the dealership wouldn't order ones like that just for their inventory.

Seeing how many people on MB World have modded their cars to include Euro options like folding mirrors and parktronic, I think we should all start a letter writing campaign to MBUSA telling them what we want. I always wonder what idiots they are pulling together for their focus groups.

Oh and one more thing to add to my bitc* fest. The lack of retractable rear head restraints on the W204 really pisses me off to no end. I think the non-retractable ones look so incredibly cheesy.

PhilipM1

What is the point of a retractible rear headrest.. if its up and non retractible doesnt it look the same ?


Im in a 93 190E we didnt have that luxory. 190D's did though. go figure.

pmb600

I think its a great idea, because it really does improve your rear visibiltiy when they are down. I rarely have rear passengers so I prefer to have them down when I am driving.

Besides its a fun little toy that seems like a Mercedes trademark now, people that get in my car enjoy that feature.

PhilipM1

haha your awsome.

yeah i guess that would impair vision, I dont have them so i dont know the difference.

Oh well, i dont use head rest. i tilt my seat back, and half my back actually sits off of it. its kidna wierd. and i HAVE TO HAVE a door handle to hold on to.

pmb600

Yeah I usually dont use mine either, its really for saftey not comfort, that's why they call them head restraints not rests. It's supposed to protect your neck in a rear collision. My favorite are the ones in the S-Classes that have the rear seat package. The head rests come up automatically when the person gets in and buckles their seat belt.