Any difference between Germany and South Africa builds?
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C300
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-...sults/2098558/
seems both are good. SA plant scores slightly higher in IQS, but Bremen plant also builts more complicated cars. So the result is reasonable to me.
seems both are good. SA plant scores slightly higher in IQS, but Bremen plant also builts more complicated cars. So the result is reasonable to me.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I could be mistaken but the sheet metal on my SA built unit appears to be thinner than the EU ones. I noticed when I was waxing the hood, it gave way slightly when I pressed on it whereas the loaner I had which was made in EU did not despite how hard I pressed it ... trust me, I did press pretty hard since it was a loaner!
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C300 Sport/Palladium Silver on Black/P2
To me, I always think I can "feel," a difference in the plastics and whatnot in the cars. Not that one is better or worse, just that you can tell they aren't from the same place as nothing can be identical.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Vietnam cars are beautifully assembled from CKD kits.
South African cars have better leather & more sun resistant plastics.
SA plant just scored top of all Benz plants in the latest JDPowers survey.
South African cars have better leather & more sun resistant plastics.
SA plant just scored top of all Benz plants in the latest JDPowers survey.
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From: Dix Hills, New York
2012 C250 Coupe
My sister just got a 2011 South african built c-class. And to be honest, I think its better. They use different glass. They use Auto something on the windows that move up and down, but then use pilkington on the rest. Just for the record, it has none of the rattles that my 2009 german built c-class has.
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From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
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2016 C300 4Matic Lux w/ P1, P2, Lighting Package
Having recently ordered a 2011 C (it'll be Thanksgiving before it arrives if I'm lucky), according to my dealer there were around two dozen 2011s remaining for production at Bremen. Thereafter, all C class models destined for the US (Canada??? I don't know) will be produced in East London, South Africa. And this, only until the next generation C class production moves entirely to the US in Alabama. I wanted a Bremen-made 2011 C but it wasn't possible. My 2005 C was made in Bremen and it's been flawless. All the accolades over the East London facility - I'm kinda thinking it's a good thing my forthcoming C is South Africa-built.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Our SA built C240 is 7 years old to the day & has zero squeaks or rattles. Our C350 likewise thusfar.
Tuscaloosa built ML's to SA are not well finished. Most supply has been moved to Graz after too many complaints.
Tuscaloosa built ML's to SA are not well finished. Most supply has been moved to Graz after too many complaints.
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From: DC 'burbs
2016 C300 4Matic Lux w/ P1, P2, Lighting Package
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Having recently ordered a 2011 C (it'll be Thanksgiving before it arrives if I'm lucky), according to my dealer there were around two dozen 2011s remaining for production at Bremen. Thereafter, all C class models destined for the US (Canada??? I don't know) will be produced in East London, South Africa. And this, only until the next generation C class production moves entirely to the US in Alabama. I wanted a Bremen-made 2011 C but it wasn't possible. My 2005 C was made in Bremen and it's been flawless. All the accolades over the East London facility - I'm kinda thinking it's a good thing my forthcoming C is South Africa-built.
There are even some *STUTTGART* made Cs on the lots right now in the U.S. This blew my mind as it didn't happen in the previous model years.
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merecedes c200k 2009
German
My c200k 2009 was manufactured in Germany(Stuttgard Factory). I don't know about the diference between factories in MB, but in other brands (chevrolet, nissan, etc.) the cars made in USA are mucha better that the ones made in Mexico an Venezuela. Here in Dominican Republic the models made in USA have higher resale values.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Attitudes vary by market. I come from a market that believes that anything automotive built in the US is crap. Sometimes unfairly. I'm afraid the big three's reputation for awful QC has rubbed off on everything.
BTW - what is sometimes termed the Stuttgart plant is actually the Sindelfingen plant at Poplingen outside Stuttgart.
BTW - what is sometimes termed the Stuttgart plant is actually the Sindelfingen plant at Poplingen outside Stuttgart.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Sep 20, 2010 at 09:42 AM.
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From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
Having recently ordered a 2011 C (it'll be Thanksgiving before it arrives if I'm lucky), according to my dealer there were around two dozen 2011s remaining for production at Bremen. Thereafter, all C class models destined for the US (Canada??? I don't know) will be produced in East London, South Africa.
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From: Illinois
'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i
For what it's worth, I owned an Ohio-built Honda Accord once... fit and finish was terrible... poorly fit interior elements, air leaks, water leaks galore. But that was 10 years ago. Maybe things have changed (for the better).
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C300 Luxury
Just remember figures can lie. The German MB factory might report more flaws than the South African factory because they are better. The better and more efficient factory might be able to detect more flaws in the assembly process than the less efficient factory.
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
Quality assessments are not self-reported. 3rd party assessments are used, even for internal purposes, with outside companies auditing the plants using standardized processes. Reported quality issues are not reported during stages of assembly, but for the plant's internal reporting purposes, just prior to shipping. (Measures are used in each stage to effect process improvements, but not create overall vehicle scores.) Therefore, any efficiencies in plant processes upstream of shipping audit would have no effect on the ability of an outside inspector to identify an issue. External third party assessments utilize VIN to track back vehicle issues to identify the sourcing plant. With these systems, South Africa has outperformed Germany, but cars from either plant are leaders in the segment.
Last edited by Sportstick; Sep 20, 2010 at 12:16 PM.
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From: Dix Hills, New York
2012 C250 Coupe
There is a much easier way to tell where the vehicle was made. Open the driver door and look down to the right, there is a little tag there, and in horizontal writing, the south africa ones will say "assembled in south africa". In the United states it is required by law for car manufacturers to state on the door jamb on the drivers door where the vehicle was assembled.
Going on to the difference between south african built ones and german ones. I am not sure if this is because of the new 2011 beige interior, or if all 2011 have this, or if it is specific to south africa builds. The command hub is no longer flat black, it is now grey with sparkles, actually looks quite nice on the beige, not sure how it would look on the black. Also, on my car, there is chrome strips around the window buttons, on her car (south africa 2011) there is no chrome, but rather sliver painted aluminum, kind of like what is in the infiniti g37. She also has wood package, and I am not sure if this is normal for wood instead of aluminum trim, but she has a leather shift knob.
I don't see why everyone thinks that it is such a bad thing that they are from South Africa, the reliability track record for problems per 100 cars is lower, its not like they are not authentic because its not german built, heck, I think all the 2012 c-classes are to be built here in the states anyway... In fact, I would rather a South African built one over my german one with all the stupid little problems I have been having lately...
Going on to the difference between south african built ones and german ones. I am not sure if this is because of the new 2011 beige interior, or if all 2011 have this, or if it is specific to south africa builds. The command hub is no longer flat black, it is now grey with sparkles, actually looks quite nice on the beige, not sure how it would look on the black. Also, on my car, there is chrome strips around the window buttons, on her car (south africa 2011) there is no chrome, but rather sliver painted aluminum, kind of like what is in the infiniti g37. She also has wood package, and I am not sure if this is normal for wood instead of aluminum trim, but she has a leather shift knob.
I don't see why everyone thinks that it is such a bad thing that they are from South Africa, the reliability track record for problems per 100 cars is lower, its not like they are not authentic because its not german built, heck, I think all the 2012 c-classes are to be built here in the states anyway... In fact, I would rather a South African built one over my german one with all the stupid little problems I have been having lately...
Last edited by jctevere; Sep 20, 2010 at 12:18 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
If you talk to the Sindelfingen & Bremen plant senior personnel. They will all tell you that their problems are mainly with their Turkish labour force.
SA benefits from so much of the durability testing done here. If a fault is detected it is rectified immediately in production or pre production as the case may be.
SA benefits from so much of the durability testing done here. If a fault is detected it is rectified immediately in production or pre production as the case may be.
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From: Waldfischbach-Bergalben, Germany
2008 MB C300 Sport (Mars Red)
My '08 SA-built C300 now has 50k miles and not a single problem has arisen... No rattles, squeaks or anything. I don't have a single complaint! (Hope I'm not jinxing myself now!!!)
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C300 Luxury
Quality assessments are not self-reported. 3rd party assessments are used, even for internal purposes, with outside companies auditing the plants using standardized processes. Reported quality issues are not reported during stages of assembly, but for the plant's internal reporting purposes, just prior to shipping. (Measures are used in each stage to effect process improvements, but not create overall vehicle scores.) Therefore, any efficiencies in plant processes upstream of shipping audit would have no effect on the ability of an outside inspector to identify an issue. External third party assessments utilize VIN to track back vehicle issues to identify the sourcing plant. With these systems, South Africa has outperformed Germany, but cars from either plant are leaders in the segment.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
That's strange. When I was touring the Sindelfingen factory a few months ago for my European delivery, there were these signs all over the place which counted the output so far for the day, the target for the day and the number of flaws found, but perhaps that is something different.
Sportstick is spot on regarding what JDPowers & the like report.
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From: Toronto
2008 c300
Was it a Turkish worker, or a German supervisor, that let my car roll of the line with an off centered steering wheel? And be delivered the same way.
The Turkish "guest worker" has been a factor for MB since 1950 and wasn't a problem in the good old 1970-80's! MB management, on the other hand has been awful, since about 1990.
Cheers
Keith
