C300Sport

You seem to enjoy knocking on the W204 with comments like “stupid looking star”, etc and then want to cry about it when someone brings up the fact that part of the reason they prefer the W204 is that the reliability of the W203 played a major roll in tarnishing MB’s reputation for reliability. Could you tell me how that is an idiotic comment? It seems like you are getting a little worked up because I don’t prefer your car…
And yes, they sold well...but wouldn’t that be expected as they were MB’s entry level or “volume leader”…if you don’t understand that terminology, try Google…
Finally, what point are you trying to make about the fact that they are updating the styling after two years and that much of the W203 was incorporated into the W204? Very few vehicles are clean sheet designs and a two year refresh and four year major makeover seems to be pretty common in the industry and not indicative of any underlying styling problems.

RLE

Please explain your use of the term "over-engineered." I think you read that someplace......

C300Kid

The newer models are softer bc MB buyers couldn't handle the ride?

tijn

yes softer suspension, because old men want a smoother ride.

FrankW

cry about what? you seem to fail to realize I have both. so you don't prefer my C350 either? awesome. do i care? no...just like I don't give much **** about the W204 forums either. did I say "stupid looking star"?...I think the clearly said it doesn't work on the sedan. I don't hold one over the other. I know the good and the bad of both model. The first two year of owning the W203 I had ZERO problems. The first two year of owning the W204 I have ZERO problems. It's funny how we didn't have a thread like this "do you like the w202 better or the w203" when the 203 was first introduce. You are right about one thing, w204 sure attracted a lot of new buyers that didn't look at MB before...unfortunately it also turned the 204 forum into another "e46fanatics".

both the W202 and the W203 had 7 years run of each. 4 year major makeover might be the "industry" standard for domestic and japanese, but not for Mercedes or BMW (might be a fact with recent Audi however). The need for mirror change was obviously a design flaw where it created much of the 204's wind noise where the 203 is very quiet and that was the point. just FYI, the W203 did not receive any makeover after the first two year other than the introduction of Bi-xenon. The change came in 2005 (almost 5 years into the production).

get your fact straight. the W203 did not have nearly enough issue as the W211 which is the main money maker for Mercedes. W203 is the major issue for tarnishing MB's brand image? what a fan-boy comment just because you don't like the 203. The two major player was the W211 and the W163, not the W203.

i.e. flip-up and out cupholder. typical broken item in a lot of the w203. 2-piece interior door handle. flip down rear seat head-rest.

go drive the 2010 and a 2008. you'll see how different they are.

K-A

Also, W220 was pivotal in tarnishing M-B's quality image. I don't remember hearing the W203 being much of a disaster, when I started researching M-B models in depth a couple years ago (when my buying craze started). The W220, W163, W210 (seems there are two sides here, some who see it as the last of the "old school", and some who see it as the first of the decade long quality debacle), and early W211 seem to have been the poster boys. Of course, the W203 is a simpler car, so a lot of the key disaster points (Airmatic, SBC, to name a couple), weren't available on it.

C300Kid

Was '10 the first year of the modified suspension or is my '09 softer too?

FrankW

the '10 is definitely softer. not sure about the '09 (maybe the late '09 models)

C300Sport

Frank, what are you still going on about? Everyone on this forum for more than a couple months is well aware that you own both. And yes, you really do seem to care as you just can’t be quiet about things you have already been proven wrong about. Example: post # 297 where you stated “minus the stupid looking star grille... ”…is your memory really that bad…seems you are going for quantity and not quality with your 20,000+ posts.

As far as the demographics and attitudes on this forum degrading into “BMWesque one-upmanship”, you seem to be the one spewing classy terms like “talking out of your ***” and “idiotic” in response to a comment about the difference in the reliability of the two models. How exactly does that make me a W204 fanboy? Seriously Frank tell me. It seems you see yourself as the epitome of class and anyone stating something you don’t agree with is beneath you…should I apologize for trashing up the forum with my terrible comments.

Almost all makers have upped their “refresh” schedule over the last two decades so I still don’t see the validity of the “it was so bad we had to fix it after two years” reasoning. And if you would care to reread and comprehend my statement about the W203 helping to tarnish MB’s reliability reputation, I said it played a role…which naturally means there were others…so thanks for listing them for us.

Seriously, aren’t you getting tired looking ignorant every time you try to defend your first rant against my reliability comment? It was a simple comment and it doesn’t seem you are going to be happy until you beat me down for it. What gives?

tijn

C300Sport I think you got such backlash off FrankW is because instead of proving that the w204 has all these great features and looks. You just attacked the w203 instead which made FrankW attack you back.

my 2 cents (might have got ripped off)

C300Sport

Hmmm...that was not really my intent. I actually like the W203 but never could pull the trigger on one and ended up with something else. I didn't mean the W203 was a POS but that it didn't live up the the high standards set by many of its predecessors; while the W204 has often been lauded as one of the vehicles starting to work MB back to the automotive pinnacle.

Hey Frank, sorry about the recent smart *** comments and I am going to drop this from here.

Glyn M Ruck

It should be noted that the W203 also had things softened up a little at the mid life 2005 face lift. Seems a Benz move back in the direction of refinement rather than trying to be a BMW 3 Series.

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...on-changes.pdf

Sportstick

agreed....which would be consistent with the brand positioning. My early 09 offered pleasing, but not very quick chassis reflexes. We've had plenty of discussions on improving tires, but after more time, I think I've found the formula to keep almost all of the ride comfort, but take the handling more toward 3 series "slot car" precision. This has no visual benefit for those who like to lower their cars, but simply installing the Eibach front and rear antisway bars (and associated bushings) creates an excellent overall balance. I don't plan to go any further with the chassis...this is Mercedes ride comfort, but with faster/crisper steering response and a new level of very stable, flat, tight cornering.

FrankW

funny how when people can't back up their argument with factual responses they always turn into personal attacks. I stand corrected if i did make the comment on the star on the grille, so this is about me now? not on how you want to prove the 203 was the worst car in MB history that tarnished it's brand image?

I've already gave you the facts where the 211 and 163 and as K-A mentioned the 220 had the major issues where the public started the questions the build quality of the MB. Study was also done on these cars that per minimum number of units (forgot if it was 1000 or 10000 units) that the 211 and 163 had the most problems out of all Mercedes-Benz sold around the world. If i remember correctly this study was done back in 2003 or 2004. The 203 was no where near this conversation.

yet, in your previous comments you seems to be fixated on trying to convince others that 203 was the worst car of all time that played a "major" role in tarnishing MB's brand on how terrible they are in reliability just because they showed no interest or dislikes of the W204 which you own.

yes, I tell it like it is. you do sound like a fan-boy when you started throwing out comments simply to disagree with someone else and bash on their low post count. AND no, I don't bash someone when they don't agree with me however I do bash someone when they started throwing out comments that are not true as if they are. opinions and facts are two different things.

you can read up on what my 20000+ post was about.

edit: and why apologize? this is an open discussion.

FrankW

Eibach sways worked wonders for the 203 as well. for 204 the wheel/tire change made a big impact on handling for me. the oem a/s touring tires just wasn't cutting it. chassi wise since i'm trying to keep this more comfortable than the 203 i won't be changing anything to the suspension.

Glyn M Ruck

+1

K-A

Good. Benz has always >>>> BMW to me, especially historically. So they've done something very right.

M-B need to stay as the quintessential "Luxury Car", or else, they'll start getting beat due to lack of experience in others forte's, and start losing ground in their own, while others creep up.

The W204 to me, is an example of this. Perhaps the best all around car in its class, but it doesn't do anything best, and this includes Luxury, due to the ride being perhaps too "hard"/Sporty (I never had much of a problem with it, after-all, it is a C-Class, so they can get away with a bit of a sportier ride), and mainly, due to the spartan, and very unrefined/crude interior/lack of sound filtration/etc.

Also, the W204 is on a normal route to when it gets its face-lift/update. 2012, which will take it until the W205 comes out in 2015 MY. The LED's have been included due to EU Regulations demanding that all cars are required to have daytime LED's, otherwise, of course, M-B would have never put LED's standard on their entry level car.

I do agree though, that for a car that had so much testing, why so many little changes? 2008's had complaints about too much noise, so they added some sound deadening, and possible refinements. The suspension though maybe makes sense; they wanted to see if they could push it to 3-Series territory, and they probably got a lot of "my fillings are falling out" complaints.

The mirrors were axed immediately, perhaps due to M-B wanting to save cost by producing just one mirror to put on all their new models, and of course, due to the poor wind-design of them.

Wheels seem to have been changed, which is fine (keeps things kind of fresh). However, IMO, if MBUSA didn't supply ALL C-Classes with Sport Packs, and mixed it up with more Luxury units available (or raised the cost of the Sport Package), then the Sport Package would have a longer "freshness" life, it'd look cool, kind of rare, and special, as it should. Not like a lamp post, with them at every corner, while the Luxury becomes the head turner, due to you thinking "what the hell is that?", i.e, a rare sight. At the same time, they could get away with a Sportier suspension, due to the people actually going out of their way/paying more to get that kind of ride, not grandma blue-hair just getting the first one she see's on a lot (of course with Sport Package), and then later finding out it's rattling her poor fragile bones.

C300Sport

Wow, I thought I would let this go graciously but you just won't stop. It is funny how you state the uninformed turn to personal attacks, especially seeing as you were the one that made the entire thing personal with your "talking out of my ***" and "idiotic" statements regarding my post.

I was referring to several negative comments from several posts from different members and did not specify any of them...you took it upon yourself to attack me for a general comment about comparative reliability...one that still stands as the truth no matter how badly you don't want it to be true or how many numbers you throw out about how other cars were/are statistically more problematic. Check True Delta, Consumer Reports, JD Power, etc. if you disagree.

Why do you continue to state that I tried to make the W203 sound like the worst car ever made...you must be the only one that came away with that impression?

Where did I bash someone's low post count? Sorry bro, didn't happen! Please do your homework.

As far as the apology goes, I guess I will retract that as I see no need to apologize to a classless and arrogant individual.

FrankW

you don't seize to amaze me. letting go graciously by calling me out in your last post which has nothing to do with making a rebuttal to the topic of "how was the 203 crap and embarrassment to mb"....


i'm sorry, but the following will be "personal" towards you...you didn't leave me much choice.

"way to talk out of your ***" is a personal attack? making a comment of your "comment" being "idiotic" is a personal attack? perhaps for someone who has low self-esteem like you that doesn't like to be proved wrong...

i'm not the one who continues to make smart-*** responses calling someone "classless" and "arrogant" OR implying someone is stupid that should be googling everything. Good job on making yourself look like a douche-bag and proving this forum is really turning into a e46-esque forum where comments need not to be factual based and opinions is the fact.

you didn't make the 203 sound like the worst car ever in MB history?? I guess I must be stupid then because I think I read you said "203 is crap and an embarrassment for MB that is the reason for tarnishing MB's brand image" lmao, you can't even back up what you said earlier within the same thread. Now it's "you were referring to"?? referring to who? I don't think anyone here is saying the 203 is more reliable than the 204?? if they are please feel free to point them out to me.

you didn't bash someone who had low post count? i'm sorry, i was mistaken. you were just bashing people that made their opinions heard and are different to yours...if you didn't see the smilie next to the "stupid grille" joke...you'll never get it.

seems to me you are one of those that are easily ticked off when someone disagree with you. as Glyn said it best "ah, the height of tolerance". apparently you have none.

I'm glad you called me ignorant btw as “Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.” --Ben Franklin. I rather be ignorant than be someone like you who is unwilling to learn and accept other people's opinion.

akbro93704

Didn't own a W203, but the '05+ sports were to me, the best engineered C-classes to date. The '07's with the AMG spoiler, cool looking rims, and black birdseye maple trim were the best value. The 05+ also had the HUGE cross-drilled front brake rotors. These years definitely had more controlled noise/vibration/harshness (soaked up bumps, had that bank-vault feel, almost no wind noise) than my '08 C300 and also firmer steering and a much less plasticky interior. To me they just feel like totally different cars, one isn't necessarily better than the other. (yes, I just ignored the previous argument posts)

C300Sport

If you don’t want to be called out, don’t make smart *** comments. The fact that you are accusing me of bashing people that don’t agree with me is ridiculous. The only person I have come close to “bashing” is you, and only after your stupid comments. How exactly is that intolerant and a refusal to learn?

I have already stated that my initial post was a bit over the top and I have commented several times that the W203 is not crap but just not up to MB standards…why do you keep throwing that out there?

I have noticed that you haven’t really answered my questions in my previous posts…I am assuming it is because you can’t do it in a way that either looks good for you or bad for me???

BTW- I have never gotten ticked off on this forum. Amused yes, pissed off, no. I think it is a great way to learn, enjoy and even debate. You really have seemed to miss the point I have been trying to make. Anyhow, it has been fun...in a masochistic kind of way but I am thinking everyone else may be getting tired of this…maybe not...we may see the little popcorn guy soon…

C300Kid

LOL..as did I.

Having said that, I feel honored that my thread has become one of the most controversial and epic threads in the w204 forum.

FrankW

I have not see any question involved in your post that wasn't a rhetorical question which all you were trying to do is to show i was picking on you.

where and what is your question again?

who said I don't want to be called out? it just shows how little you know about the brand and it's reliability history and had to call me out for correcting what you said.

now you are changing your words to you have commented on the 203 is not crap??? make up your mind. If you did, then what is your point for arguing when I pointed out your "203 is CRAP and embarrassment reason for tarnishing MB's brand image" is false and speaking out of your *** on a subject you know little about? changing your words to "203 just wasn't up to MB standard" doesn't even make any sense. If that was the case then the W211 and the W163 as well as the W220 must've been pulled out of the garbage bin then? because they had more issues than the 203 by ratio.

stupid comments? as in voicing my opinion on how I don't really like the star grille on the sedan in a joking manner? if you can't stand that statement then there's obviously something wrong with your tolerant level OR understanding of joke.

LOL just the fact that you are actually trying to explain that you never get ticked off and amused shows how you really feel.

btw, it's pretty clear how you wanted to change the subject in every post you make.

edit: just answer me this, did you or did you not made the statement saying "203 is crap and an embarrassment for MB and the reason for tarnishing it's brand image" ?? like i've said and i'll say it again, that was an idiotic statement and an obvious statement from someone who knows nothing about the 203 or why MB's brand image took a dive late 90's and early '00.

let me just end this with....we get it!!! you like your W204 better!! and I like both of them the same....

tijn

what a cop out, you can't like them the same! haha

FrankW

ok then...I like the 204 better since we're on the 204 forum.