IS it safe to wash the engine with degreser i just did A/c feel different
04-18-2009, 08:57 AM
#26
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I own 2008 C-350 2008 E-350 2005 C -230 Kompressor 2006 FORd F-350 6.0
Wow We are the subject with my engine wash Question let first figure out this wash
Elt figure out if yes one can wash or no. Then we jump to the oil response it so many answer still who is right and who is wrong now. Does anyone got an idea of this subject. IF both answer are semi right............the yes and no you can wash the engine with soft hose rinse and degresser
04-18-2009, 09:42 AM
#27
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Elt figure out if yes one can wash or no. Then we jump to the oil response it so many answer still who is right and who is wrong now. Does anyone got an idea of this subject. IF both answer are semi right............the yes and no you can wash the engine with soft hose rinse and degresser
If you are going to wash your engine, you should realize there is ALWAYS a chance of getting water onto something delicate, expensive and important.
I have lightly washed mine in the past with no problems but have heard many horror stories from family and friends that attempted a careful wash job.
It's a personal choice and you have to be ready for the consequences if you decide to do it...hopefully the only consequences are a really clean engine...
04-18-2009, 10:32 AM
#28
Super Moderator
Thank you. It's clear to me that Mr. Ruck brooks no disagreements with his pronouncements so to back up my statement, here's what I know.
In 2001 I attended a 2 hour presentation on synthetic oil, Mobil 1 in particular. This presentation was aimed at Porsche owners which is why I was present.
The speaker was an employee of ExxonMobil Research and Engineering. His name was William L. Maxwell and his title was Senior Engineering Advisor, Synthetic Automotive Engine Lubricants. He was based in New Jersey at the time.
When the question period arrived, I asked him what he knew about the Mercedes FSS system and the recent V-6 engine sludging situation. He said he was well aware of it and discussed it frankly.
He said that when MB was testing the FSS system to validate their plan to go to long interval oil changes, they used European dino oils. Their conclusions were that at least 12K miles would be workable and so the FSS system was introduced in the V-6 ML. And by the way, the FSS system could not indicate that an oil change was due before 10K miles. It was designed that way.
My '01 C320 had FSS, of course and since factory fill was Mobil 1 0W40 I continued but changed it at 5000 mile intervals due to lots of short trips. That was my choice and BTW the available filters were still paper.
Getting back to Mr. Maxwell's remarks, he said that the early V6s started to sludge up in the US resulting in very substantial warranty costs and to the point where each of our local dealers assigned one tech just to open up those engines for repairs.
It was finally determined that while the Euro dino oils could go the distance, the US oils could not and the extended change intervals were what caused the sludging. He said that earlier, MB Germany had no interest in synthetics but when this little problem appeared, they changed their minds and became Mobil 1 enthusiasts. Now, of course, there are many other synthetics on the approved sheet.
Somewhere about that time, the well known class action suit against Mercedes was brought and MB lost the case. As a result, all of those engines that had been using US dino oils had their engine warranties extended to 150K miles provided synthetic oil was used exclusively.
Now that I think about it, it's a bit like the SBC brake debacle wherein all E-Class SBC cars now have a ten year unlimited mileage warranty on their braking systems.
When MB abandoned FSS a few years back and went to a fixed 13K mile oil change, that's when fleece filters became a requirement along with an approved synthetic. The Seattle dealers are using M1 5W40.
I am quite well acquainted with the service managers at both area dealers and the two MBUSA Reps and they agree, this is the story.
My ilk, indeed.
In 2001 I attended a 2 hour presentation on synthetic oil, Mobil 1 in particular. This presentation was aimed at Porsche owners which is why I was present.
The speaker was an employee of ExxonMobil Research and Engineering. His name was William L. Maxwell and his title was Senior Engineering Advisor, Synthetic Automotive Engine Lubricants. He was based in New Jersey at the time.
When the question period arrived, I asked him what he knew about the Mercedes FSS system and the recent V-6 engine sludging situation. He said he was well aware of it and discussed it frankly.
He said that when MB was testing the FSS system to validate their plan to go to long interval oil changes, they used European dino oils. Their conclusions were that at least 12K miles would be workable and so the FSS system was introduced in the V-6 ML. And by the way, the FSS system could not indicate that an oil change was due before 10K miles. It was designed that way.
My '01 C320 had FSS, of course and since factory fill was Mobil 1 0W40 I continued but changed it at 5000 mile intervals due to lots of short trips. That was my choice and BTW the available filters were still paper.
Getting back to Mr. Maxwell's remarks, he said that the early V6s started to sludge up in the US resulting in very substantial warranty costs and to the point where each of our local dealers assigned one tech just to open up those engines for repairs.
It was finally determined that while the Euro dino oils could go the distance, the US oils could not and the extended change intervals were what caused the sludging. He said that earlier, MB Germany had no interest in synthetics but when this little problem appeared, they changed their minds and became Mobil 1 enthusiasts. Now, of course, there are many other synthetics on the approved sheet.
Somewhere about that time, the well known class action suit against Mercedes was brought and MB lost the case. As a result, all of those engines that had been using US dino oils had their engine warranties extended to 150K miles provided synthetic oil was used exclusively.
Now that I think about it, it's a bit like the SBC brake debacle wherein all E-Class SBC cars now have a ten year unlimited mileage warranty on their braking systems.
When MB abandoned FSS a few years back and went to a fixed 13K mile oil change, that's when fleece filters became a requirement along with an approved synthetic. The Seattle dealers are using M1 5W40.
I am quite well acquainted with the service managers at both area dealers and the two MBUSA Reps and they agree, this is the story.
My ilk, indeed.
I know Bill Maxwell - a fine scientist. Everything he said was right for the time. You have misconstrued it. The black sludge problem was much wider than just Benz - Oils having insufficient dispercency to handle the sludge was a symptom of other problems that I've listed above. The oil industry jumped into gear to help resolve the problem as did the OEMs - this was not just an oil problem. Oil reformulation played it's part in resolving the issue. Black sludge still rears it's head when an unfortunate set of circumstances arise even using Mobil 1 which is a fine product of which Bill was/is justifiably proud.
Out of interest, while you were attending your seminar, I was living in Marin County & commuting over the Richmond Bridge every morning to a very large oil company Research & Technolgy centre - Please do some reading about black sludge - you will find it informative
04-18-2009, 10:35 AM
#29
Super Moderator
It seems there really is not right of wrong...if you wash your engine and don't have problems, I guess you were right....If you end up frying your electronics, I guess your were wrong.
If you are going to wash your engine, you should realize there is ALWAYS a chance of getting water onto something delicate, expensive and important.
I have lightly washed mine in the past with no problems but have heard many horror stories from family and friends that attempted a careful wash job.
It's a personal choice and you have to be ready for the consequences if you decide to do it...hopefully the only consequences are a really clean engine...
If you are going to wash your engine, you should realize there is ALWAYS a chance of getting water onto something delicate, expensive and important.
I have lightly washed mine in the past with no problems but have heard many horror stories from family and friends that attempted a careful wash job.
It's a personal choice and you have to be ready for the consequences if you decide to do it...hopefully the only consequences are a really clean engine...
04-18-2009, 04:53 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Sorry about hijacking the engine wash thread!!!
The horror stories of black sludge certainly make me feel justified in changing my diesel engines oil a little sooner than the 20,000 km recommended.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/au...ewanted=1&_r=1
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...um=1#PPA204,M1
The horror stories of black sludge certainly make me feel justified in changing my diesel engines oil a little sooner than the 20,000 km recommended.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/au...ewanted=1&_r=1
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...um=1#PPA204,M1
04-18-2009, 06:31 PM
#33
Super Moderator
Sorry about hijacking the engine wash thread!!!
The horror stories of black sludge certainly make me feel justified in changing my diesel engines oil a little sooner than the 20,000 km recommended.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/au...ewanted=1&_r=1
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...um=1#PPA204,M1
The horror stories of black sludge certainly make me feel justified in changing my diesel engines oil a little sooner than the 20,000 km recommended.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/au...ewanted=1&_r=1
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...um=1#PPA204,M1
One of the reasons a lot of this problem was cloaked in secrecy was that initially no one quite understood what was going on - it hit the world like a plague - and the vast amounts of money involved in legal actions.
It had the oil companies & OEMs reeling as the mechanism was not fully understood. One thing I'm proud of is how we all worked together to resolve it - suddenly being in competition with one another did not matter - we all had a common purpose - lick this thing. Maybe there is a lesson in there somewhere.
04-18-2009, 10:59 PM
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Sarcasm
splinter;Trust you’ve long since deducted the time invested from your 2001 seminar. ......
As a matter of fact, the Mobil presentation was one of many given, as usual, at the Porsche Club of America's annual convention which was held in Milwaukee that year.
.....Tribology has progressed a fair piece since then....
Of course it has. Which has nothing to do with the discussion in re: the cause and cure of the MB V6 sludging episode. Those days are over because much was learned.
...Although that ’84 944 may indeed be a highly collectable and rapidly appreciating machine,...
If you know anything about Porsches, you know that statement is a bit of a stretch. But, I don't buy Porsches anymore because i think Mercedes offers better value for money.
...of course you’re aware that MB’s current 229.5 lubricant specification for late model spark ignition engines is specified for your warranty compliance.
The ExxonMobil 5W-40 synthetic 229.51 “Seattle dealers” dispense is but one of many low ash multigrade engine oils approved for compression ignition MB’s...
Yes, I am well aware of the list of tested and approved oils and in fact looked at it very recently. Wasn't there a 229.53 in there somewhere? Again, this is not relevant to the current discussion
...It's still approved for CDIs. Yours perhaps?[/QUOTE]...
Perhaps you failed to notice when you read about my 944 that I own a W204 C300 which could not be a diesel since they are not imported to North America.
And when the C diesel does show up, it will be a four-cylinder, not the V-6 Bluetec.
As a matter of fact, the Mobil presentation was one of many given, as usual, at the Porsche Club of America's annual convention which was held in Milwaukee that year.
.....Tribology has progressed a fair piece since then....
Of course it has. Which has nothing to do with the discussion in re: the cause and cure of the MB V6 sludging episode. Those days are over because much was learned.
...Although that ’84 944 may indeed be a highly collectable and rapidly appreciating machine,...
If you know anything about Porsches, you know that statement is a bit of a stretch. But, I don't buy Porsches anymore because i think Mercedes offers better value for money.
...of course you’re aware that MB’s current 229.5 lubricant specification for late model spark ignition engines is specified for your warranty compliance.
The ExxonMobil 5W-40 synthetic 229.51 “Seattle dealers” dispense is but one of many low ash multigrade engine oils approved for compression ignition MB’s...
Yes, I am well aware of the list of tested and approved oils and in fact looked at it very recently. Wasn't there a 229.53 in there somewhere? Again, this is not relevant to the current discussion
...It's still approved for CDIs. Yours perhaps?[/QUOTE]...
Perhaps you failed to notice when you read about my 944 that I own a W204 C300 which could not be a diesel since they are not imported to North America.
And when the C diesel does show up, it will be a four-cylinder, not the V-6 Bluetec.
Last edited by RLE; 04-18-2009 at 11:14 PM.
