ATSOBE

Was wondering i just wash engine with degreser and hosed it off with water.I covered of course the map sensor area in the back. I did pull all engine cover. Also did wash heavy the front radiator or maybe it the a/c radiator with lot of degresser and hose it off. But i notice my a.c doesnt feel as cold and the outside temp say 72 hasnt moved the . Maybe it my idea a.c doesnt feel as cold. Any clues maybe it my head but im pretty sure the A/C doesnt freeze as it did before. Could i had messed up anything just wondering .Jus tnow the outside temperture mark 100 degree naybe cause it hot i dont feel the a/c as cold not sure . How I know if a/c freezes . Any tech test or idea so i know like to learn.

Glyn M Ruck

Stick a thermometer in the airsteam in one of the dash ducts - it should read +- 4 deg celcius.

You cannot wash down these engines with water - there are too many electronic devices that can be effected & poluted. There was another recent post in this regard - DON'T do it.

tanktube67

Yes could wash the engine all the electronics are mostly water proof do it with the engine warm with a low pressure water flow be selective as to where you spray things. To clean the radiator is recommended to blow it out with compressed air from the inside out.

Glyn M Ruck

That is nonesense. Benz specifically recommend against it. Anyway - wash engines at your peril with water. When you have a few miles on the clock & half of the connectors have corrosion on them - enjoy the troubles. They are far from waterproof. You just have to look at where oil gets on the M271 engine when it's cam sensors leak. Or the way gearbox fluid creeps up the harness and damages the TCU if you suffer an O ring leak on the tranny - & the TCU is inside the cabin in the passengers footwell under the kickplate.

AND - don't use any silicone containing product under the hood ANYWHERE - if it gets to the O2 sensors in even the slightest amount it will destroy (poisen)them - Silicone will also damage the MAF sensor.

RLE

Of course you can. I have been taking all of my cars to the coin-op car wash for decades including the new one. Everything is well protected and keep in mind that these cars ARE driven in the rain.

Believe me, when you take your car in for service with a clean engine, the staff appreciates it and remembers you. Just another thing that's paid off for me over time.

Carsy

I will not be putting water anywhere near mine. Too many electrical connections. I use compressed air then a damp cloth to keep the engine clean. There should not be any oil leaks so why use a degreaser.

CrAZyVeGAsBoY

i agree u can clean ur engine with degreser and water, i wouldnt do it often but as long as ur careful it should be fine, could u damage something, possibly but again if ur careful u should be alright, sometimes people tend "baby" their car more than others but to each their own.

GateKeeper

yes the cars are driven in the sun, the snow, and even in the rain.....

however, I have yet to see any rain get inside the engine compartment, the underside is well covered and prevents most water if not all from coming up and hitting the engine and all the electrical, on the top side you have the hood, so it's well protected from the elements....

next time your driving in the rain, and you come home, pop open the hood, I would be surprised if yo have water splashed all over the engine.

now that being said, I do wash up the engine bay area, use a soft brush a bit of car soap, scrub a bit, and then with a very gentle spray, rinse off the soap suds, then I grab a big towel, and dry everything I can off, start the engine and let it run for a bit, hood closed, and let it dry out, that way.

Just be gentle..

GDawgC220

It's safe to wash the engine bay. You just have to be mindful of how you do it. When proper methods are used, there should be no problems. As a experienced auto detailer on the side, I've cleaned quite a few engine bays without issues. Yes, there are electrical connectors, harnesses, etc in the engine bay however they are pretty water tight. As long as you don't spray water directly at the connectors (especially with high pressure washers), you'll be fine. If you're concerned, wrap them up with aluminum foil or saran wrap.

There are plenty of safe engine cleaners on the market that can be used. Even though the engine bay may not have oil from minor leaks/seepage, over time things start to accumulate in the engine bay and make it dirty...sand, grime, leaves, maybe leaking gaskets, etc.

Glyn M Ruck

You are a wise man Carsy - you intend keeping your car a long while according to your posts. The connectors on these cars are made for quick assembly - not to be waterproof - one quick look at them will confirm this & rain does not get into the engine compartment.

I was at my dealer to get filters for a friend's car that we are servicing this weekend. Had a chat to my service manager buddy who has a strict policy of no engine washing as mandated by MBSA. (You still get your car back with a spotless engine after a service)

I mentioned this matter & he just laughed & commented - We make lots of money out of people like that - wait 'till they blow their first $1500 module & see what they think. They will first tell me what a shiiit car a Benz is & then we will make money out of them & they can look forward to endless CELs as the vehicle ages.

GDawgC220

LOL, I guess both my parents' S500 and ML430's modules should have blown by now after years of cleaning them (and all the other cars I've done)? They also keep their cars for a long time, both have well over 100k miles.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes some people get lucky - but many don't - why would one suggest a practice to people that could cost them dearly. Forum success revolves around carefully considered advice. Especially as vehicles become even more electronic with new generations.

ATSOBE

So what is the write answer can I rinse it down with the hose or not. Some say yes other say no way . What is the write answer huh.......

Glyn M Ruck

People have differing opinions. I recommend you listen to Benz & don't

GDawgC220

I just looked at MBUSA's website and their CPO check list. Under their "33 Point Appearance Inspection", the first thing they list is "Engine Wash". Can you find something documenting that MB recommends against this? If its a part of their CPO check list, I doubt that they tell people not to wash their engines bays. Like I said, when done properly, you'll have no issues.

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/#/cpoM...intInspection/

Glyn M Ruck

I think that is American english & means clean rather than wash with water. Benz USA do many things that Stuttgart does not approve of like running the M271 for 20,000Km oil drains with paper & not fleece filters - now that is real dumb when the cars come from Germany with a use only fleece filter sticker under the hood & you can't even provide it for your most troublesome engine.

Anyway - you give whatever advice you wish - some will listen to you & some won't

GDawgC220

Now you're playing word games. So you're saying "wash the car" means cleaning it without water? I think people would agree that when someone says "wash the car", it means with water.

You originally said Mercedes-Benz says not to wash the engine bay which one would assume ALL of Mercedes-Benz, not locale specific. And why bring oil filters into this when it even relevant. And I do believe MBUSA now does specify to use fleece filters across all engines for their maintenance intervals. Its true that initially this wasn't the case but has since been corrected.

I just don't like seeing wrong information given. Like I said if you can show something that says MB advises against this, great. And the same can be said for your advice

RLE

Ah, but when the first ML came out and MB said change oil at 12000 miles, fleece filters did not exist and the sludging problem had nothing to do with filters anyway. It was the oil.

Glyn M Ruck

I really don't know why you don't go & play on the Audi forum. You are quite wrong about the filters - the whole 203 forum is complaining about MBUSA's decision to no longer import Mann fleece filters for the 271 but maintain the long drain. Please try & buy a fleece filter for a 271 at your dealer. The reason that I brought filters into the conversation was to suggest that MBUSA get things wrong.

The next time I go to my dealer I will get the bulletin which is ex Stuttgart - I've seen it. I just hate wasting my SMs time on trivial things when he is so helpful when I have a query about major things as are MBSA. I will then post it but don't expect me to rush.

It is you that is giving the wrong information. I am allowed to disagree with you if you are wrong - you don't own this forum

Glyn M Ruck

This is another ill informed comment:

I'm not going to go into a long dissertation here because the subject is well documented & easily researched on the internet. Be careful what you read, however

The main causes of black sludge were:

- crankcase ventilation to the rocker cover
- Underbonnet temperatures
- Fuel Quality
- Driving patterns - both cold & hot sustained which hardened cold temp sludge
- oil change interval
- lack of adequate dispercency in oil
- engine design

Oils were reformulated with improved dispercency to help with the problem & keep water, polar organic contaminants from the fuel & carbonaceous contaminants in suspension. There was a move to greater use of synthetics although this was somewhat unfounded. Fuel was improved, designs were changed & cooling and temperature control was improved. The automotive industry would admit that there are still things about the black sludge epidemic that are not fully explained.

This is a very brief summary. Saying it was the oil in isolation is quite incorrect.

splinter

+1

There is no sense pissing into the wind with the likes of RLE and his ilk. They already know everything.

Glyn M Ruck

Thanks John

RLE

Thank you. It's clear to me that Mr. Ruck brooks no disagreements with his pronouncements so to back up my statement, here's what I know.

In 2001 I attended a 2 hour presentation on synthetic oil, Mobil 1 in particular. This presentation was aimed at Porsche owners which is why I was present.

The speaker was an employee of ExxonMobil Research and Engineering. His name was William L. Maxwell and his title was Senior Engineering Advisor, Synthetic Automotive Engine Lubricants. He was based in New Jersey at the time.

When the question period arrived, I asked him what he knew about the Mercedes FSS system and the recent V-6 engine sludging situation. He said he was well aware of it and discussed it frankly.

He said that when MB was testing the FSS system to validate their plan to go to long interval oil changes, they used European dino oils. Their conclusions were that at least 12K miles would be workable and so the FSS system was introduced in the V-6 ML. And by the way, the FSS system could not indicate that an oil change was due before 10K miles. It was designed that way.

My '01 C320 had FSS, of course and since factory fill was Mobil 1 0W40 I continued but changed it at 5000 mile intervals due to lots of short trips. That was my choice and BTW the available filters were still paper.

Getting back to Mr. Maxwell's remarks, he said that the early V6s started to sludge up in the US resulting in very substantial warranty costs and to the point where each of our local dealers assigned one tech just to open up those engines for repairs.

It was finally determined that while the Euro dino oils could go the distance, the US oils could not and the extended change intervals were what caused the sludging. He said that earlier, MB Germany had no interest in synthetics but when this little problem appeared, they changed their minds and became Mobil 1 enthusiasts. Now, of course, there are many other synthetics on the approved sheet.

Somewhere about that time, the well known class action suit against Mercedes was brought and MB lost the case. As a result, all of those engines that had been using US dino oils had their engine warranties extended to 150K miles provided synthetic oil was used exclusively.

Now that I think about it, it's a bit like the SBC brake debacle wherein all E-Class SBC cars now have a ten year unlimited mileage warranty on their braking systems.

When MB abandoned FSS a few years back and went to a fixed 13K mile oil change, that's when fleece filters became a requirement along with an approved synthetic. The Seattle dealers are using M1 5W40.

I am quite well acquainted with the service managers at both area dealers and the two MBUSA Reps and they agree, this is the story.

My ilk, indeed.

splinter

Trust you’ve long since deducted the time invested from your 2001 seminar.

Tribology has progressed a fair piece since then. Although that ’84 944 may indeed be a highly collectable and rapidly appreciating machine, of course you’re aware that MB’s current 229.5 lubricant specification for late model spark ignition engines is specified for your warranty compliance.

The ExxonMobil 5W-40 synthetic 229.51 “Seattle dealers” dispense is but one of many low ash multigrade engine oils approved for compression ignition MB’s.

It's still approved for CDIs. Yours perhaps?

GDawgC220

Last time I checked, this was a public forum, yes? I've been a member at MBWorld for quite sometime, not some n00b. But the fact that you say "Benz specifically recommended against it" is simply something I find hard to believe. Go take a look at the detail forum where there are at least 3 or 4 detailers who post up their work and shown their washed engine bays. I suppose their lucky too, right?

I never once said I owned this forum. Of course you're allowed to disagree with me, that's what the forum is for. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm just saying if you're going to be making statements like the above then it probably is documented somewhere and it would be great if you could post it. But enough arguing about this because it won't go anywhere except back and forth. People who know how to wash their engine bays will continue to do so and those who don't will find out for themselves and make a decision, simple as that.