C300S 6MT

I understand that MB recommends Mobil 1. However, RP is getting a lot of good reviews and supposedly better than Mobil 1. Is it???

Coming up for an oil change and really considering RP...

SICKanthony

Dont use RP. Dont even think it fits MB specs.


Mobil 1 is great product. And it fits MB spec as they use it as their fill.

Penzoil Platnum Euro blend is also very good.

Then you have Elf Oil also known as TOTAL OIL.

burnteggroll

stick with the manual so moble 1 is my choice.. already had my oil change and going to get another one soon...

Azn_C300

RP is ok, but if you're going to make the switch from Mobile 1, go Amsoil. That's the gold standard imo.

Diesel Benz

How did you conclude that this RP oil is OK? It isn't sufficient that it is better than the Mobil oil that does not fulfil MB requirements.

This test is intentionally giving a wrong impression that they are referring to the MB approved Mobil oil. When someone intentionally gives a wrong impression, I would be worried. This oil could be OK but not based on this test.

See Mobil data for this and MB approved oil:
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English...nce_5W-30.aspx
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English...a_M_5W-40.aspx

Mobil 1
Extended Performance
5W-30
Our lineup of Mobil 1® Extended Performance high-endurance motor oils includes a 5W-30 grade, which is the viscosity most recommended by car builders over the last 10 years. This viscosity is recommended for most General Motors vehicles and many imports. The 5W-30 is a good viscosity for a broad range of applications and climates.

Mercho82

stick with mobil so you wont burn your engine

Azn_C300

I said RP is an ok oil. Which it is. I don't think it's worth it to upgrade from Mobile 1 to RP though, but an argument could be made to upgrade from Mobile 1 to Amsoil. There have been multiple discussions with evidence ranging from independent tests, comparisons, experiences, etc that have argued one way or another on this board as well as the BMW, Audi, exotics, etc boards. Not saying Mobile 1 is a bad oil, just don't believe that there aren't better out there.

Diesel Benz

I don't know anything about oils and I'm not claiming one brand would be better than the other or that RP is not good but since you know several tests and other references, why not post those instead of these test results that compare some low quality Mobil 1 instead of the MB approved Mobil 1 oil?

Azn_C300

The first chart compared the recommended Mobile 1 Extended 5W-30 and the same one you posted, the other charts show the same Super Synthetic Mobile 1 blend. What are you talking about? The second link you provided is a diesel model blend. The ones I've seen the dealership pour in are the regular Mobile 1 line btw. And I'm just giving an example and options. I'm not here to write you a full report. Do your own research and be your own judge. A simple google search will give you all the links and references you want.

Diesel Benz

I gave two links, the first one appears to cover the "Mobil 1 5W-30 Extended performance" oil. This oil does not seem to fulfil any MB qualifications (has not been classified). The intention of the test is to make readers believe that 229.5 grade Mobil oil, as recommended by MB, was used while this oil does not fulfil even ancient MB requirements.

My second link covers "Mobil 1 ESP formula M 5W-40" oil which is an example of Mobil 1 oils that fulfil MB 229.51 requirements. This oil is qualified for gassers and most often the only oil type used by MB shops even if MB recently has advised to use 229.5 oil for gassers.

For reader's convenience, I'll post an example of the 229.5 grade oil reference, this one is simply called "Mobil 1 0W-40"
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English...l_1_0W-40.aspx

I may have missed something but from the two documents I conclude that you have been badly mislead to conclude that the reference oil in the test you posted was the one recommended by MB while it does not appear to fulfil any MB requirements. Looks like you missed this fact twice.

I admit that I'm not familiar with the names Mobil is using for the US market, those are often different from the European blends but it is essential to understand that not all Mobil 1 oil blends fulfil MB requirements and specifically "Mobil 1 Extended Performance" oil is probably not intended for any MB. This same mistake was posted earlier at another model forum in which case the best oil experts of the forum shouted back, this is why I did not want to leave the misleading info without a request for MB owners to look carefully what the test is about.

Thanks for your polite attitude on the topic.

RLE

Last I saw, MB doesn't approve ANY oil with a XW-30 in it. And we don't care about "most" car builders, but only MB.

RLE

I don't know why anyone would think that M1 is somehow insufficient for either W204 engine (not talking about the C63) since the factory fill oil more than meets it's modest needs, anyway.

Here we have a little V-6 (3.0 or 3.5) that puts out 76hp/liter vs another German car with 605hp producing 106hp/liter and cost $440,000. And tops out at 199mph.

And the factory fill on the non-MB was none other than Mobil1 0W40.

Azn_C300

Actually, MB does approve some XW-30.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

F1Bobby

Used Mobil 1 for years on all my cars. I would not use anything else.

aowhaus

I like peanut butter.

kevink2

You are correct that the two Mobil1 ref oils are not approved by 229.5 . Both of those oils, supersyn (regular) and extended perf, are very similar.

Mobil does have an approved 5w30, that passes the 3.5 min HTHS spec of the tough euro ACEA A3 spec, Mobil SHC Formula MB 5W-30:

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lube...a_mb_5w-30.pdf

This is likely the oil that MB relables as their own 229.5 5w30.

--------------------

That said, this oil still would not likely be better than amsoil 0W30 in the wear scar test, as Amsoil has more value for this spec. But, I could not find a 5w30 from Amsoil, RP, or Redline that meets the A3 spec, that puts it in the running for MB 229.5 qualification. In that critical spec, Mobil1 was better than the others.

------------------

For warranty reasons, I'd stay with the very good approved lubes, that exclude lower grade versions of mobil1 5w30.

The US dealers are supposed to use Mobil 1 Formula M 5W-40. Mine did.

For those looking to keep the car a long time, find a good, in-spec oil, and stick with it. I'm also just evacuating the oil at 1/2 the extended change interval.

-------------------

All about our oil spec's:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html

Glyn M Ruck

Don't listen to any nonesense. Noack etc is only of consequence with Diesel engines like Deutz aircooled that run at extreme temperatures. 4 ball weld tests don't apply to engine oils - reasonable test for Sulphur Phosphorus gear oils etc. The comparisons above are made against a non approved Mobil 1 - Benz require Mobil 1 Euro formulation - mostly 0W-40. Benz have an approvals process to prevent talented amateurs that know nothing about lubrication from messing with their cars.

If the oil does not have a 229.5 approval - not .51 - that is for diesel - DON'T use it

HTHS (high temperature high shear is what matters with Benz) - ie cam & tappet protection.

Glyn M Ruck

Read this

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ght=Definitive

kevink2

echo here ??? ... did you even read my post?

Carsy

Anyone who uses non MB approved engine oil is taking a huge warranty risk & also a risk of shortening your engines life. These engines when cared for & with approved oils, should last 500,000 km . I agree with Kevink about changing the oil a little earlier than recommended but why take the risk with a non approved product. Lubricating oil marketing has always had a fringe element peddling BS to the gullible.

Glyn M Ruck

No I did not. For which I am sorry. I'm from the petroleum industry & lost my temper long before getting to it. I can't handle the blatent rubbish being spoken - Amsoil - I ask you! - They only have a .51 product approved or in approval. Anybody who starts talking 4 ***** & Noack's for PCMO evaluation is a fraud. TBN relates to diesels where fuel sulphur is an issue. I will place a small amount of mouse milk into any formulation of choice that will make a PCMO walk a 4 ball but do zero good to a gasoline engine. In fact likely do damage.

Azn_C300 & others should stick to a subject they understand

'nuff said! - and no I do not work for ExxonMobil Corp - rather their major opposition. I did however produce the Definitive Approved Engine Oil Requirements - USA

RLE

Since 1988 for me. M1 solved a problem in my Porsche's engine that was going to cost big money, I thought. Quit using Kendall then and there.

splinter

Damn you.

The GMC’s spark knock has been entirely eliminated by consuming Chevron’s California blend. The same can not be said of its competitors’ fuels. Did I mention it’s still earning its keep after ~224,000 miles on its original longblock?

Oh, and the EP/ZDDP info you shared in another thread regarding a friend’s virgin racing engine running-in was spot on. Bloody thing pulls a ton. Ran a personal best during his first time out in competition.

Mr. Ruck knows of what he posts.
His decades of experience in the petroleum refining business speak volumes and validates the intel he has chosen to share with us IMHO.

Azn_C300

Look, I know plenty of MBs who have ran amsoil for many years and no issue and have reported nothing but good things. Some of them build their own engines and have reported lower oil temps and greater performance. I even know personally some service techs who use it for their AMGs, which was why I even brought up Amsoil to begin with. I personally have not ran it and never recommended anyone move away from Mobile 1 to begin with. Just said an argument could possibly be made. If you even really read, I even posted the link to the SAME chart you just posted as well for recommended oils. Maybe was a bit hasty in posting 4ball, I agree as 4ball is Amsoil propaganda, but isn't Noack still a decent indicator of how well the oil lubrication level is? Does oil not sludge or are you discounting this test because the loss from evaporation is negligible? I am not doubting your greater understanding of the topic as you are the oil guru, but relaying experiences expressed to me through several fairly reliable sources and trying to gain a better understanding. So let me ask you, are you basically saying Mobile 1 is the end all-be all best engine oil available, period for 204 MBs? This just seems to conflict with other oil men on other forums I've read through (ie bobistheoilguy, 6speedonline, etc) Correct me here, but I was under the impression that TBN is still useful regardless of diesel vs gas. Are there no acids that that get introduced to the oil through normal combustion process? Granted it's more an issue in diesel as stated, but then again, there are diesel 204s here.

Question though, would that list still hold true with the engine super or even turbo charged? Toss on a Kompressor kit?

BTW, this was the Amsoil oil that was recommended to me and supposedly was MB safe http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx as it does meet MB 229.51 spec.

Glyn M Ruck

Lets keep this simple & understandable

1) I am not saying Mobil 1 Euro formulation is the best PCMO - it is a very fine product & readily available in the US. I am saying for your Petrol Benz choose from the list of 229.5 approved oils. For your Diesel Benz passenger car choose from the list of 229.51 approved oils. I run my company's approved Havoline BM Fully Synthetic Euro formulation SAE 5W-40 in my car which is not available in the US or our wholly owned additive company's 229.5 racing formulation that is not available to the public - a perk of the job. Even if it were available I would not recommend it for general use or in locations that experience low temperatures because it is optimised for high temperature only and will not perform well in cold temperatures or combat low temperature sludge well. I live in a hot country so I can get away with it. Buy your approved oils from a well recognised major. They have the largest research budgets.
2) If you read the Definitive... thread. 229.5 & 229.51 oils are mutually exclusive. Benz has mandated that no one oil can claim meeting both specs. 229.5 oils are for petrol passenger car - Ash limits > 0.8 to 1.6%. 229.51 oils are for passenger car diesel with cat & particulate filters - Ash limit < 0.8%. Ash is a good indication of how much additive is in an oil (antiwear - dispersant - detergeant etc). The Amsoil 229.51 product will fail the 229.5 test criteria as a result.
3) Diesel engines do not rev as highly as petrol engines due to the combustion process. They don't run aggressive cam profiles like a petrol engine either. Thus HTHS & higher levels of antiwear to protect the cam & tappet area are less of an issue than in petrol engines.
4)Regarding TBN - You require as much TBN as you require & no more - more is not better if you don't have enough sulphur in the fuel to offset/neutralise it. TBN (alkalinity of an oil formulation) is there to offset the deleterious effects of combustion acids mainly driven by the sulphur content of the fuel. Basic chemistry tells us that a strong alkali is as damaging as a strong acid when it comes to corrosive effects on metals. So we don't want more TBN reserve than is necessary. I have never seen a long drain oil sample from a Benz petrol engine that has its TBN totally depleted. You or Amsoil are trying to use a mainly diesel driven positive/requirement & trying to relate it to a PCMO to somehow try & suggest this means higher TBN = better - not so.
5) We have already discussed that the Shell 4 Ball test is inappropriate for PCMOs & in fact the FZG or similar test is better for simulating gear wear. The 4 Ball correlates with very little seen in actual operating equipment. Very useful to BS & mislead the gullible public on trade show stands etc.
6) Noack values of an oil are an indication of the evapourative loss one can expect from the base fluid in an engine oil which leads to that oil thickening as a result of loss of its light ends. This is an issue in highly stressed and hot running diesel engines such as the Deutz air-cooled. It is not an issue in passenger car engine oils & the synthetic base oils used in Merc 229.5 approved products - usually PAO, display excellent Noacks anyway. I have never seen an oil sample from a Benz, racing or otherwise, that has suffered evapourative thickening.
7) 229.5 oils are an excellent choice for Turbo or SC vehicles. The most important requirement of an oil for these applications is oxidation stability to prevent deposit build up in the bearings of a TC for instance. Due to their required base fluid choice & formulation - 229.5 oils have superb oxidation stability. One of the reasons they can do 20,000 Km or 13,000 miles without a problem with proper filtration.
8) Regarding operating oil temperatures. Lower temperatures are mainly a result of the viscometrics. Pumping, shearing & churning of oils generate heat. Thinner oils will generally give you some temperature drop as would oils that shear out of grade with resultant viscosity drop - not a good thing. Reduced bulk oil temperature is not necessarily a good thing either. Many manufacturers like VW/Audi/Lambo etc control their bulk oil temp at around 130 degrees Celsius which is high because this increases engine efficiency.
9) I am not going to get into bashing Bobistheoilguy - It's fruitless. I have seen rubbish spoken by them about base fluids etc. I think good advice is - don't believe everything you read on the Internet just because it is in print. The internet is a wonderful resource but there is a lot of crap out there. You need to sort the wheat from the chaff. Something a have been bashing into my staff for years. Don't believe everything you read. Question it!