In desperate need of help
01-27-2010, 01:29 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
In desperate need of help
Hi guys. I’ll try to be as concise as possible.
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
My friends tell me that it is because of the ECU tune that I have (MKB’s) and that the fuel down here is really bad (below 90 octane), and that those kind of tunes require a high octane fuel. While this makes sense, I don’t really have a way to know for sure if this is the case. I tried contacting MKB North America (who did my tune) to find out more about it but I never get a response nor they return my emails (I wont go into this right now as this post is not to flame MKB).
So I went to a local mechanic (not authorized by MB) and he plugged the Star Diagnose computer and it showed a failure with the “right pulley position” or something (it was in Spanish so I can’t translate the exact error). The guy assured me that my knocking had nothing to do with the MKB tune nor the low octane fuel, that it was something called the balancer that was worn off. He said that this was a common failure with our engines and there was even a service report for it. He showed me the part because he had an ML350 with the same problem and it looked like a long shaft with a set of rubber and metal pinions at the end. He says that they need to change the oil pump, some retainers, and some other parts that I don’t remember right now, and we want to charge me $1500 USD for parts and labor, which obviously puts him in a biased position.
Now, my question to anyone with some mechanical experience (or any kind of experience) is: Does this make sense? Have you guys heard of this before? Or is it more likely that the combination of such an aggressive tune with low quality fuel is the cause of my problem.
Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
P.S. The authorized dealer here in Dominican Republic won’t service cars that were not sold by them. Their excuse is that they sell euro versions here and they are very different from US versions.
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
My friends tell me that it is because of the ECU tune that I have (MKB’s) and that the fuel down here is really bad (below 90 octane), and that those kind of tunes require a high octane fuel. While this makes sense, I don’t really have a way to know for sure if this is the case. I tried contacting MKB North America (who did my tune) to find out more about it but I never get a response nor they return my emails (I wont go into this right now as this post is not to flame MKB).
So I went to a local mechanic (not authorized by MB) and he plugged the Star Diagnose computer and it showed a failure with the “right pulley position” or something (it was in Spanish so I can’t translate the exact error). The guy assured me that my knocking had nothing to do with the MKB tune nor the low octane fuel, that it was something called the balancer that was worn off. He said that this was a common failure with our engines and there was even a service report for it. He showed me the part because he had an ML350 with the same problem and it looked like a long shaft with a set of rubber and metal pinions at the end. He says that they need to change the oil pump, some retainers, and some other parts that I don’t remember right now, and we want to charge me $1500 USD for parts and labor, which obviously puts him in a biased position.
Now, my question to anyone with some mechanical experience (or any kind of experience) is: Does this make sense? Have you guys heard of this before? Or is it more likely that the combination of such an aggressive tune with low quality fuel is the cause of my problem.
Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
P.S. The authorized dealer here in Dominican Republic won’t service cars that were not sold by them. Their excuse is that they sell euro versions here and they are very different from US versions.
01-27-2010, 02:10 PM
#3
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w204
Engine knocking is USUALLY caused by low fuel grades. Yes, it is true that most tunes require 91 or higher octane to run efficient fuel maps because that is what they are programmed to do. Most people don't tune their engines and buy 87 pump gas.
Perhaps Mr. Glyn M Ruck and chime in as he seems to encompass a vast knowledge over the combustion process and internals of the M272's?
Perhaps Mr. Glyn M Ruck and chime in as he seems to encompass a vast knowledge over the combustion process and internals of the M272's?
01-27-2010, 02:11 PM
#4
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2018 S350 D, 2011 E350 Coupe, 2017 G63 AMG, 2017 Ford Mustang
Hi guys. I’ll try to be as concise as possible.
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
My friends tell me that it is because of the ECU tune that I have (MKB’s) and that the fuel down here is really bad (below 90 octane), and that those kind of tunes require a high octane fuel. While this makes sense, I don’t really have a way to know for sure if this is the case. I tried contacting MKB North America (who did my tune) to find out more about it but I never get a response nor they return my emails (I wont go into this right now as this post is not to flame MKB).
So I went to a local mechanic (not authorized by MB) and he plugged the Star Diagnose computer and it showed a failure with the “right pulley position” or something (it was in Spanish so I can’t translate the exact error). The guy assured me that my knocking had nothing to do with the MKB tune nor the low octane fuel, that it was something called the balancer that was worn off. He said that this was a common failure with our engines and there was even a service report for it. He showed me the part because he had an ML350 with the same problem and it looked like a long shaft with a set of rubber and metal pinions at the end. He says that they need to change the oil pump, some retainers, and some other parts that I don’t remember right now, and we want to charge me $1500 USD for parts and labor, which obviously puts him in a biased position.
Now, my question to anyone with some mechanical experience (or any kind of experience) is: Does this make sense? Have you guys heard of this before? Or is it more likely that the combination of such an aggressive tune with low quality fuel is the cause of my problem.
Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
P.S. The authorized dealer here in Dominican Republic won’t service cars that were not sold by them. Their excuse is that they sell euro versions here and they are very different from US versions.
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
My friends tell me that it is because of the ECU tune that I have (MKB’s) and that the fuel down here is really bad (below 90 octane), and that those kind of tunes require a high octane fuel. While this makes sense, I don’t really have a way to know for sure if this is the case. I tried contacting MKB North America (who did my tune) to find out more about it but I never get a response nor they return my emails (I wont go into this right now as this post is not to flame MKB).
So I went to a local mechanic (not authorized by MB) and he plugged the Star Diagnose computer and it showed a failure with the “right pulley position” or something (it was in Spanish so I can’t translate the exact error). The guy assured me that my knocking had nothing to do with the MKB tune nor the low octane fuel, that it was something called the balancer that was worn off. He said that this was a common failure with our engines and there was even a service report for it. He showed me the part because he had an ML350 with the same problem and it looked like a long shaft with a set of rubber and metal pinions at the end. He says that they need to change the oil pump, some retainers, and some other parts that I don’t remember right now, and we want to charge me $1500 USD for parts and labor, which obviously puts him in a biased position.
Now, my question to anyone with some mechanical experience (or any kind of experience) is: Does this make sense? Have you guys heard of this before? Or is it more likely that the combination of such an aggressive tune with low quality fuel is the cause of my problem.
Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
P.S. The authorized dealer here in Dominican Republic won’t service cars that were not sold by them. Their excuse is that they sell euro versions here and they are very different from US versions.
Well I'm not an engineer or anything but I've had cars come to me for service so i could give you an idea. Your friend has very rightly stated that it's probably the ECU tune that is causing the knocking. When cars come from the company, they have their ECU tuned according to the fuel used. So basically that might just be your problem here. You could also check you engine oil level. Although Mercedes has a sensor that lights up a warning about the engine oil level, you should still check. However it is difficult for me to determine whether the crankshaft pulley that you talk about is actually worn out and causing you trouble. If you could request MB directly through mail to ask this authorized dealer to help you, things might work out!
01-27-2010, 02:50 PM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Stay under 4500 RPM in the meantime.!! I do not need to go over 2000 in my 220CDI for maximum torque !!
01-27-2010, 03:00 PM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
Octane Booster is BS. The "raises your octane by 10 points" advertisement is misleading. Read the fine print and you'll find that 10 points to them is .1 at the pump. You're gonna need a whole lot of octane booster.
That said, I really doubt it's the fuel at all. I'm not sure why anyone here would suggest you trust your "friends" who guessed at it over a mechanic with a SDS hook-up.. which showed a failure.. where he showed you the parts and described stuff in detail. $1,500? Did you expect Mercedes engine work to be cheap?
I say go with the mechanic. Everyone blaming the lower octane fuel is typical, and if the SDS hadn't revealed ANOTHER problem, I could understand that a little better. But it sounds like you have a more serious issue.
That said, I really doubt it's the fuel at all. I'm not sure why anyone here would suggest you trust your "friends" who guessed at it over a mechanic with a SDS hook-up.. which showed a failure.. where he showed you the parts and described stuff in detail. $1,500? Did you expect Mercedes engine work to be cheap?
I say go with the mechanic. Everyone blaming the lower octane fuel is typical, and if the SDS hadn't revealed ANOTHER problem, I could understand that a little better. But it sounds like you have a more serious issue.
01-27-2010, 03:01 PM
#7
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2008 c300 [] 1969 Chevelle SS [] 2010 Camaro
+1 but I don't recommend putting in twice the amount per gallon. Throw in a recommended amount of booster and see if the knocking gets any better. It should give you a quick, inexpensive way to see if it's an octane problem.
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01-27-2010, 03:10 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Octane booster off the shelf of stores is not worth anyone's time.
01-27-2010, 03:26 PM
#9
Senior Member
+1. I would be contacting MB thru email too. That excuse by the dealer is BS. Mercedes is Mercedes, doesn't matter what country you're in and even if your car is US spec they can still surely put it on the Star machine. You could also pm Glynn as I am sure he would help. Good Luck.
01-27-2010, 04:37 PM
#10
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2009 C-300 Sport
You should try to deff contact MB from where you bought the car and continue fighting with the MB from the DR or ur other choice is try to talk to one of the mechanics from MB and see if they can work on ur car outside of MB.
01-27-2010, 05:30 PM
#11
Member
Hi guys. I’ll try to be as concise as possible.
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
My friends tell me that it is because of the ECU tune that I have (MKB’s) and that the fuel down here is really bad (below 90 octane), and that those kind of tunes require a high octane fuel. While this makes sense, I don’t really have a way to know for sure if this is the case. I tried contacting MKB North America (who did my tune) to find out more about it but I never get a response nor they return my emails (I wont go into this right now as this post is not to flame MKB).
So I went to a local mechanic (not authorized by MB) and he plugged the Star Diagnose computer and it showed a failure with the “right pulley position” or something (it was in Spanish so I can’t translate the exact error). The guy assured me that my knocking had nothing to do with the MKB tune nor the low octane fuel, that it was something called the balancer that was worn off. He said that this was a common failure with our engines and there was even a service report for it. He showed me the part because he had an ML350 with the same problem and it looked like a long shaft with a set of rubber and metal pinions at the end. He says that they need to change the oil pump, some retainers, and some other parts that I don’t remember right now, and we want to charge me $1500 USD for parts and labor, which obviously puts him in a biased position.
Now, my question to anyone with some mechanical experience (or any kind of experience) is: Does this make sense? Have you guys heard of this before? Or is it more likely that the combination of such an aggressive tune with low quality fuel is the cause of my problem.
Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
P.S. The authorized dealer here in Dominican Republic won’t service cars that were not sold by them. Their excuse is that they sell euro versions here and they are very different from US versions.
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
My friends tell me that it is because of the ECU tune that I have (MKB’s) and that the fuel down here is really bad (below 90 octane), and that those kind of tunes require a high octane fuel. While this makes sense, I don’t really have a way to know for sure if this is the case. I tried contacting MKB North America (who did my tune) to find out more about it but I never get a response nor they return my emails (I wont go into this right now as this post is not to flame MKB).
So I went to a local mechanic (not authorized by MB) and he plugged the Star Diagnose computer and it showed a failure with the “right pulley position” or something (it was in Spanish so I can’t translate the exact error). The guy assured me that my knocking had nothing to do with the MKB tune nor the low octane fuel, that it was something called the balancer that was worn off. He said that this was a common failure with our engines and there was even a service report for it. He showed me the part because he had an ML350 with the same problem and it looked like a long shaft with a set of rubber and metal pinions at the end. He says that they need to change the oil pump, some retainers, and some other parts that I don’t remember right now, and we want to charge me $1500 USD for parts and labor, which obviously puts him in a biased position.
Now, my question to anyone with some mechanical experience (or any kind of experience) is: Does this make sense? Have you guys heard of this before? Or is it more likely that the combination of such an aggressive tune with low quality fuel is the cause of my problem.
Any help at all is greatly appreciated.
P.S. The authorized dealer here in Dominican Republic won’t service cars that were not sold by them. Their excuse is that they sell euro versions here and they are very different from US versions.
If he scan it with star diag Give me the fault code (s).
The fault you have is possible for the cam adjusters, not the balance shaft issue.
I dont think you need the balance shaft, even if its worn I dont think will cause a knock, but if you need it that not a bad price.This is only my opinion.
01-27-2010, 07:54 PM
#12
Super Moderator
We need to find out what codes this car is displaying - Please get this data & buy an OBDII/CAN scanner. You really need one where you are. And please e mail Benz in Germany & tell them that the local approved dealership will not work on your car. This is rubbish & Benz will take the dealership away from them if they don't cooperate. Benz warranty is supposed to apply globally as long as the vehicle is not illegally imported & you are the first owner. Transferability can vary dependant on local law. Your real problem is modifying the ECU from a warranty perspective.
- You might well be suffering from high speed knock on poor fuel if your ECU tune has an over aggressive advance curve compared with standard & after modification can't retard the timing sufficiently. I'm surprised you can hear it though. High speed knock is difficult to detect unless it has already done mechanical damage or is chronic. Please try & record this "knock" for us. Take your ECU back to standard on an urgent basis.
Is your car a flex fuel model? If so can you find any high octane automotive cane alcohol to try in it and see if it helps.
- It could be the balancer shaft but I would be surprised.
- Please check the crankshaft damper pulley on the front of the crank. It has a rubber insert. Please make sure that the pulley is not coming apart. Benz is supposed to have fixed this - one still sees the odd failure.
- Another reason we need codes is the 272 engine is prone to Camshaft Position Sensor failure. Incorrect cam timing might be aggravating this problem.
You should probably stop using the vehicle until this problem is properly diagnosed.
Please accept we are guessing at the moment with no codes & the fact that we can't hear the knock.
Good Luck
- You might well be suffering from high speed knock on poor fuel if your ECU tune has an over aggressive advance curve compared with standard & after modification can't retard the timing sufficiently. I'm surprised you can hear it though. High speed knock is difficult to detect unless it has already done mechanical damage or is chronic. Please try & record this "knock" for us. Take your ECU back to standard on an urgent basis.
Is your car a flex fuel model? If so can you find any high octane automotive cane alcohol to try in it and see if it helps.
- It could be the balancer shaft but I would be surprised.
- Please check the crankshaft damper pulley on the front of the crank. It has a rubber insert. Please make sure that the pulley is not coming apart. Benz is supposed to have fixed this - one still sees the odd failure.
- Another reason we need codes is the 272 engine is prone to Camshaft Position Sensor failure. Incorrect cam timing might be aggravating this problem.
You should probably stop using the vehicle until this problem is properly diagnosed.
Please accept we are guessing at the moment with no codes & the fact that we can't hear the knock.
Good Luck
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 01-27-2010 at 07:59 PM.
01-27-2010, 11:19 PM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for all your replies. Although it not exactly good news, it definitely helps knowing that you are not alone during desperate times.
I was able to get my car on the dealer's system (through some good customer’s demands) and they have agreed to service it, although they won’t honor the warranty (which I wasn't expecting anyways). I have an appointment for next week.
Should I mention the tune and the whole story, or just show them the knocking?
As far as the knocking go, it is loud and clear. It happens mostly when I step on it (which I don’t do anymore) or when I release the gas with a manual gear keeping the revs going and then I press the gas again.
Here are the graphs I got at a dyno in Boston right after I got the ECU tuned.
Another piece of the puzzle is that the knocking started right after my second tank of Dominican fuel. Some of my friends with modified cars (mustangs and corvettes) said that they use toluene to deal with the fuel here. I used a couple of toluene gallons on a filled tank back then and it did help with the knocking, but now it came back a couple of weeks ago and it is worst than before.
All I have to do now is wait and see what they say at the dealer.
Any thoughts now that you've seen the graphs? Thanks!
I was able to get my car on the dealer's system (through some good customer’s demands) and they have agreed to service it, although they won’t honor the warranty (which I wasn't expecting anyways). I have an appointment for next week.
Should I mention the tune and the whole story, or just show them the knocking?
As far as the knocking go, it is loud and clear. It happens mostly when I step on it (which I don’t do anymore) or when I release the gas with a manual gear keeping the revs going and then I press the gas again.
Here are the graphs I got at a dyno in Boston right after I got the ECU tuned.
Another piece of the puzzle is that the knocking started right after my second tank of Dominican fuel. Some of my friends with modified cars (mustangs and corvettes) said that they use toluene to deal with the fuel here. I used a couple of toluene gallons on a filled tank back then and it did help with the knocking, but now it came back a couple of weeks ago and it is worst than before.
All I have to do now is wait and see what they say at the dealer.
Any thoughts now that you've seen the graphs? Thanks!
01-28-2010, 07:25 AM
#14
Super Moderator
The graphs tell us nothing about the ECU programming or advance curve. You really need to get that back to standard if you have to live with poor fuel. Benz runs very tolerant mapping. Toluene is an octane booster but it retards flame front propagation in the combustion process so it's not an elegant solution. Remember your car has a pretty high compression ratio which is a contributing factor in engine knock for a given octane or AKI fuel.
You need to be fair with the dealer & tell them everything you can. I would politely ask them to ask Benz if they will honour the warranty. I can understand the dealer not wanting to. If Benz is prepared to pick up the tab - dependant on whether they consider the problem to be ECU related or not, should be OK with the dealer. If the dealer knows what they are doing with the Star DAS they will read the high speed knock from the knock sensor anyway.
If this problem is detonation/preignition/pinging/knock related & it's starting to sound as if there is a possibility - then I hope you have not damaged a piston or small end bearing.
Anyway - lets stop guessing & wait for the dealer diagnosis - trouble codes etc. which I request you please post. Then we can get a better handle on things. Explaining noises over the ether can be difficult. One person's knock is another's tick & so on.
Good luck
You need to be fair with the dealer & tell them everything you can. I would politely ask them to ask Benz if they will honour the warranty. I can understand the dealer not wanting to. If Benz is prepared to pick up the tab - dependant on whether they consider the problem to be ECU related or not, should be OK with the dealer. If the dealer knows what they are doing with the Star DAS they will read the high speed knock from the knock sensor anyway.
If this problem is detonation/preignition/pinging/knock related & it's starting to sound as if there is a possibility - then I hope you have not damaged a piston or small end bearing.
Anyway - lets stop guessing & wait for the dealer diagnosis - trouble codes etc. which I request you please post. Then we can get a better handle on things. Explaining noises over the ether can be difficult. One person's knock is another's tick & so on.
Good luck
01-28-2010, 09:26 AM
#15
Senior Member
[QUOTE=Bokx_350;3912990]Hi guys. I’ll try to be as concise as possible.
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
QUOTE]
NO WARRANTY??? I AM LOST ON THIS ONE, REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU LIVE IF THE CAR IS STILL UNDER WARRANTY, THEN IT IS!!! GO TO THE DEALERSHIP, I LIVE IN GERMANY, MY CAR WAS PURCHASED THRU THE AMERICAN SYSTEM, SO THE WARRANTY IS FOR 4 YRS IN THE USA, BUT GERMANS ONLY GET 2 YRS. AND THEY STILL RESPECT MY WARRANTY HERE.
sorry about the all caps!!
so u in D.R.??? umm, just sounds sooo delightful
The problem is my car engine is knocking when I go above 4500 rpm, and it sounds like it really damaging the engine. To make things worst I don’t live in the states anymore, I now live in Dominican Republic so…. no warranty.
QUOTE]
NO WARRANTY??? I AM LOST ON THIS ONE, REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU LIVE IF THE CAR IS STILL UNDER WARRANTY, THEN IT IS!!! GO TO THE DEALERSHIP, I LIVE IN GERMANY, MY CAR WAS PURCHASED THRU THE AMERICAN SYSTEM, SO THE WARRANTY IS FOR 4 YRS IN THE USA, BUT GERMANS ONLY GET 2 YRS. AND THEY STILL RESPECT MY WARRANTY HERE.
sorry about the all caps!!
so u in D.R.??? umm, just sounds sooo delightful
01-28-2010, 11:37 AM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Not only no warranty, but when I called to make the formal appointment (they had told me before that it usually takes a week, thus I implied that I would have a spot for next week) they said that the earliest available spot for service was Feb 24 
!!! I said that it was an emergency and that I wasn't even driving the car so the lowered it to Feb 16, which is still horrible.
I will try to get MB to take care of the bill under warranty anyways (although is a long shot and the dealer already said NO), but I'm waiting until my car is fixed before I start sending emails to Stuttgart.
Ironic that I used to complaint about Herb Chambers service in Boston and now I'm stuck in Benz Hell, I kind of miss the snow too.
!!! I said that it was an emergency and that I wasn't even driving the car so the lowered it to Feb 16, which is still horrible.I will try to get MB to take care of the bill under warranty anyways (although is a long shot and the dealer already said NO), but I'm waiting until my car is fixed before I start sending emails to Stuttgart.
Ironic that I used to complaint about Herb Chambers service in Boston and now I'm stuck in Benz Hell, I kind of miss the snow too.
01-28-2010, 12:10 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I recorded the knocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7fu1t_B0Pc
you can notice at 5000 RPM. It is much louder in real life, but I didn't want to take an other take as you can imagine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7fu1t_B0Pc
you can notice at 5000 RPM. It is much louder in real life, but I didn't want to take an other take as you can imagine.
01-28-2010, 12:23 PM
#18
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2008 c300 [] 1969 Chevelle SS [] 2010 Camaro
I've had the experience where I said "oh yeah, I added an underdrive pulley" (z28 camaro) and a lazy mechanic said "well there's your problem" without really checking anything else. I had the luxury of taking it somewhere else, something you don't have.
01-28-2010, 12:34 PM
#19
You were absolutely correct with the engine tune and anti-knock index of the fuel you are using. The Mercedes ECU program is very conservative and anticipates the use of low grade fuels. The ECU tune on my car is programmed for RON 95 but Carlsson recommend blending it with RON 100. You should immediately contact the company that did your tune and find out what the fuel requirements of the program is, though it would probably be better for you to have Mercedes reflash your ECU.
01-28-2010, 12:39 PM
#20
Your tune voided your warranty and it's not rocket science to prove that tune did your engine damage. You can't hide this from Mercedes even if you wanted to. No amount of email is going to dig you out of this hole. This is why I always recommend the Carlsson engine tuning, the warranty. It's good you stopped driving it. Just let them reflash the ECU and fix the engine damage if you want to keep the car. A painful lesson to learn, sorry to hear about it.
01-28-2010, 02:32 PM
#21
Super Moderator
Does not sound good - something is knackered. Pleased you PM'ed me. A little bit of advice in the DR from time spent in 3rd world countries. Please try & keep the dealer on sides. You need him. Do not alienate him & be friendly. If the problem ends up not being ECU related I believe Benz will honour your warranty - eg if the crank pulley makes a hole in your hood.
It's like fighting with Chinese border control. You can't win if they choose to be difficult. Try and be nice to them and everybody might come to the party. A large dose of humility always helps in these situations even though you are probably feeling mad at life. Do not try and hide the ECU tune from them. They will likely figure it out & you need it sorted.
It's like fighting with Chinese border control. You can't win if they choose to be difficult. Try and be nice to them and everybody might come to the party. A large dose of humility always helps in these situations even though you are probably feeling mad at life. Do not try and hide the ECU tune from them. They will likely figure it out & you need it sorted.
