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W204 Third Party Component Speaker Upgrade
#376
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2010 Mercedes-Benz C300 Sport, Auto, P02, 320, 067, 104, 218, 413, 786, 889
I would certainly bypass the factory x-overs. Design your own if youre so inclined but I would use the x-overs on your amp or headunit.
#377
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2008 Mercedes Benz C300 4matic Sport
There's information about the x-overs earlier in this thread and other threads dealing with speaker replacements. I believe the x-overs are in the front OEM speakers themselves (polarized caps). A full signal comes from the HU. The Infinity replacement speakers come with their own x-overs.
#378
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Yes you can power it from the SAM... assuming you're not using a crazy power hunger amp(s) - However, it's still best to run power from the battery.. I ran it from the battery and used the wiring hole in the fuse box on the right to run the wire into the cabin (no drilling necessary).
#381
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These Inifnity Kappas sound great and I may not even bother with my sub. One of the rear speakers that came was blown. Waiting for the replacement. Still having a hard time changing the EQ settings and making them "Set."
#382
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2008 Mercedes Benz C300 4matic Sport
Did you already dremmel out the sails for the tweeters? I'm having second thoughts about the infinity tweeters jammed into the foam. They still sound harsh to me. I Have a pair of Alpine sps119 tw and want to try them out. I wish I had the sails with the tweeter holder intact. The tweeters would fit right in. Anyway, I want to see if they improve the sound.
You've got to press SET for every column-- frequency, Q and gain.
You've got to press SET for every column-- frequency, Q and gain.
Last edited by codeblue5007; 02-10-2015 at 08:31 PM.
#383
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Sails have been dremmeled as that is the only way the tweeters will fit. I did press "set" by pressing down the rotary knob but it doesn't seem to do anything. Also, when changing the values, I didn't notice a change in sound. In my Engineering Mode, it shows that I will have to change all 4 speaker values individually. Will try again this weekend.
Last edited by Sincity; 02-11-2015 at 07:36 AM.
#384
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2008 Mercedes Benz C300 4matic Sport
Sails have been dremmeled as that is the only way the tweeters will fit. I did press "set" by pressing down the rotary knob but it doesn't seem to do anything. Also, when changing the values, I didn't notice a change in sound. In my Engineering Mode, it shows that I will have to change all 4 speaker values individually. Will try again this weekend.
Meanwhile I'm going to try out Alpine tweeters and post results. I took one of the sails and foam backing out to examine them closely in my workshop and notice right off that the sail has a relatively small circular "transparent" area through which the tweeter sound comes through. This means that much of the Infinity tweeter sound is blocked by the plastic sail. One possible solution is to mount the Alpine tweeters so that the swivel head is on the cabin side of the sails, but this may look too low rent for a Mercedes. The next owner may be put off by such an obvious mod.
#385
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#386
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2008 Mercedes Benz C300 4matic Sport
Following up on my search for better sound, I installed these Alpine tweeters behind the sails. They come with their own in-line crossovers. I tried with and without, and they definitely need their own crossovers to avoid distortion at higher volumes. They fit very well in the foam backing with a thin 1/4 inch foam insulation wrapped around the housing.
I used these 3M butt connectors and recommend them for all speaker wire connections. They are easy to use, needing only a pair of pliers to lock them shut, and they squeeze out a small amount of gel to keep the connections from corroding. They accept even heavy gauge stranded wire.
UY-3M - 3M Scotchlok IDC Butt Connector, 100 Pack: Butt Terminals: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
The sound of the tweeters is more detailed and provide an airy dimension. Voices, Cymbals, finger snapping, rim shots are better defined. The Infinity tweeters have more power, but in a lower range. Overall, I don't think this modification is necessary. Far more important is the source of the sound. FM and sat are pretty awful compared to CDs.
I used these 3M butt connectors and recommend them for all speaker wire connections. They are easy to use, needing only a pair of pliers to lock them shut, and they squeeze out a small amount of gel to keep the connections from corroding. They accept even heavy gauge stranded wire.
![UY-3M - 3M Scotchlok IDC Butt Connector, 100 Pack: Butt Terminals: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/misc/amazon_icon.gif)
The sound of the tweeters is more detailed and provide an airy dimension. Voices, Cymbals, finger snapping, rim shots are better defined. The Infinity tweeters have more power, but in a lower range. Overall, I don't think this modification is necessary. Far more important is the source of the sound. FM and sat are pretty awful compared to CDs.
#387
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The Infinity's 2 ohm impedance is one factor, the other being their high efficiency (93 dB for 1 watt input). The two factors combined have the following consequences: The 2 ohm impedance lets the Audio 20 unit produce 40 watts RMS per channel (160 watts total), and each speaker with 40 watts with 93 dB/1 watt can produce 110 db. Combined the 4 speakers can produce 116 dB. However, on average, music volume is 10db less that its peaks, so that's 106 db listening level. Not rock concert loud but adequate for a noisy car environment.
This is just an assumption that the radio may have issues with a 2 ohm load for the rear channel and "may" be damaged when running a 2 ohm load. If I don't have issues running the 4 ohm speakers for the rear, I just may switch the rears to 6032si since they are 4 ohms.
Last edited by Sincity; 03-02-2015 at 02:13 PM.
#388
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2008 Mercedes Benz C300 4matic Sport
I have been having issues with my rear 62.9i in the RR channel. When I start the radio, I do not hear the distortion until a minute or so later. I have switched the speakers around and it is the same channel that is having issues. I wonder if my RR transistors are weak and they must be overheating when driving the 2 ohm load? I have no issues with the front 60.9cs. I'm going to disconnet the LR channel and run a 4 ohm speaker on the RR channel this weekend to see if the distortion will come back.The damage to the Audio 20 amp may be irreversible now.
This is just an assumption that the radio may have issues with a 2 ohm load for the rear channel and "may" be damaged when running a 2 ohm load. If I don't have issues running the 4 ohm speakers for the rear, I just may switch the rears to 6032si since they are 4 ohms.
This is just an assumption that the radio may have issues with a 2 ohm load for the rear channel and "may" be damaged when running a 2 ohm load. If I don't have issues running the 4 ohm speakers for the rear, I just may switch the rears to 6032si since they are 4 ohms.
If it's the RR channel that sucks. There are used HUs on eBay. I saw one without a face for $150. Or you could take the opportunity to replace it with a more powerful non-OEM unit. Keep us posted.
#389
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RR channel distortion
Sincity: Before anything else, there is another test you may wish to perform - replace the RR Kappa 62.9 2-ohm speaker with the original OEM stock unit. If the amplifier ceases to distort, then the distortion is caused by a mismatched part in the headunit triggering the circuit that limits the current to the output stage of the amplifier (causing an early onset of "soft" clipping, a pre-existing condition in the headunit).
If this is the case, one solution would be to replace both rear 62.9's with 4- or 8-ohm units (or just reinstall the original OEM speakers). These would have to be highly efficient, and the output balance could be restored with the front-to-rear fader, although the sonic qualities of these new units may be different.
However, if the distortion persists even with the stock speaker swap, then another output solution must be found, as the output stage components or transistors may actually be damaged. This would also have been caused by a pre-existing defect, as the current-limiting circuitry DIDN'T work; modern solid-state amplifiers since the late 1960's have been protected against even full.-shorting conditions (where for instance both speaker leads are directly connected), typically with a "crowbar" which clamps the base of the transistor and prevents excessive current flow. references are here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowbar_(circuit)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_limiting
Please send a personal message through MBWorld as I am at your service to assist in resolving this condition, also for anyone else who is experiencing this problem, feel free to communicate. In the next week I will be having a custom bluetooth screen (to visualize Nav from my smartphone) with backup cameras installed to the stock audio headunit, the aftermarket company doing this upgrade may have additional insights into solutions to this condition. They can also recommend some high efficiency 4- or 8-ohm speakers if the suggest test demonstrates that the headunit amplifier is intact, these recommendations I will post ASAP,
If this is the case, one solution would be to replace both rear 62.9's with 4- or 8-ohm units (or just reinstall the original OEM speakers). These would have to be highly efficient, and the output balance could be restored with the front-to-rear fader, although the sonic qualities of these new units may be different.
However, if the distortion persists even with the stock speaker swap, then another output solution must be found, as the output stage components or transistors may actually be damaged. This would also have been caused by a pre-existing defect, as the current-limiting circuitry DIDN'T work; modern solid-state amplifiers since the late 1960's have been protected against even full.-shorting conditions (where for instance both speaker leads are directly connected), typically with a "crowbar" which clamps the base of the transistor and prevents excessive current flow. references are here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowbar_(circuit)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_limiting
Please send a personal message through MBWorld as I am at your service to assist in resolving this condition, also for anyone else who is experiencing this problem, feel free to communicate. In the next week I will be having a custom bluetooth screen (to visualize Nav from my smartphone) with backup cameras installed to the stock audio headunit, the aftermarket company doing this upgrade may have additional insights into solutions to this condition. They can also recommend some high efficiency 4- or 8-ohm speakers if the suggest test demonstrates that the headunit amplifier is intact, these recommendations I will post ASAP,
Last edited by Acapulco Bill; 03-03-2015 at 10:59 AM.
#390
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Tks Bill. The stock speakers were destroyed to do the retrofit. Ironically, I do have a pair of old speakers from my 190e that I can try this weekend.
#391
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Decided to not even bother experimenting with a 4 ohm speaker. Now my RF channel is also affected. Looks like I have a "bum" radio that can't handle this load.
#392
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so i just got a JL audio sub and amp with the control knob installed i feel like i need to mess with the "secret audio menu" i turned up the max audio volume which made a difference but any tips on making the base sound a little better on the non HK system what settings to change etc. any help would be appreciated
#393
Per my response to your other thread, you need to describe what "making the bass sound better" (not base, btw
) means. What does it sound like now? Not enough thump or boom for your liking? Too muddy? If you have to crank the volume up in order to get satisfactory bass, perhaps your installer reversed the polarity of the speaker inputs so things are out of phase. Either way, more info would help diagnose your issues better.
If you've read this entire thread, you'll see that a properly setup sub like Acapulco Bill's Boss system will yield fantastic results. No dual 12" setup in a coffin box necessary!!
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
If you've read this entire thread, you'll see that a properly setup sub like Acapulco Bill's Boss system will yield fantastic results. No dual 12" setup in a coffin box necessary!!
Last edited by Doanster; 05-03-2015 at 12:39 PM.
#394
MBWorld Fanatic!
Per my response to your other thread, you need to describe what "making the bass sound better" (not base, btw
) means. What does it sound like now? Not enough thump or boom for your liking? Too muddy? If you have to crank the volume up in order to get satisfactory bass, perhaps your installer reversed the polarity of the speaker inputs so things are out of phase. Either way, more info would help diagnose your issues better.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#396
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I post pictures of my set up need to make a video still but maybe the pics can help in some way who knows there on my profile under album
#397
No way to tell from those pics. You (or the installer) will have to physically check to see which color stock wires were tapped to feed the amp. When I did the Kappa upgrade, I reversed the polarity (green vs green/brown IIRC) and EVRYTHING sounded horrible. The minute I fixed it... bam, 1000% better and sounds as advertised.
#398
MBWorld Fanatic!
No way to tell from those pics. You (or the installer) will have to physically check to see which color stock wires were tapped to feed the amp. When I did the Kappa upgrade, I reversed the polarity (green vs green/brown IIRC) and EVRYTHING sounded horrible. The minute I fixed it... bam, 1000% better and sounds as advertised.
#399
No. There's no way you can tell how good or bad a system sounds from a video clip. Plus, you're grasping at straws here (messing with the engineering menu, upgrading to Kappa's, etc.) instead of solving your real problem with the JL setup. You paid quite a but for that sub/amp combo so why not get the problem solved before doing other things? Just my $0.015-worth...
#400
I red this great topic form bottom up and I learnt a lot from it.
Any update about the speakers ?
In UK it is currently impossible to get Infinity Kappa 60.9cs and 62.9i any suggestions about the speakers setup to replace them old models (w204 wise ofc) ?
As I understand Kappa 60.9cs and 62.9i were an 'easy fit' upgrade and I am looking forward to something like this without a need to play a lot with MDF rings.
Any update about the speakers ?
In UK it is currently impossible to get Infinity Kappa 60.9cs and 62.9i any suggestions about the speakers setup to replace them old models (w204 wise ofc) ?
As I understand Kappa 60.9cs and 62.9i were an 'easy fit' upgrade and I am looking forward to something like this without a need to play a lot with MDF rings.