LandSeaAir

Hi,

I am in 11th grade and I will be getting my first car soon. What I want and am excited to get is a high miler '08 C300 4matic.

My question is are there any serious and common reliability ossues to worry about? I will be looking for one with maybe 50-90000 mile, but with good service records a carfax etc.

What do you think?

Amaxm

I think that unless it's CPO (prolly not with those miles), you're in for an assload of expensive repairs if something fails... One of those websites, Edmunds, Cars.com or something, will show the TCO - total cost of ownership - MB is never cheap, going in or getting out...

lingnoi

If all service inspections and repairs are done on time then I see no probs buying a car at that mileage.

L

Amaxm

There you go, that's exactly what you wanted to hear ! Case closed !!!

hitokiri89

As long as the car has been cared for the right way you should be fine . Mercedes are built to last so I doubt you going to see any problems at the 50 thousand mile mark . If you do end going for it get all the history for car in writing and have a full diagnostic done just mane sure you dont run into any snags .

TaxEsq

Why get your own? Keep driving daddy's cars (as your profile suggests) and hold out for the ML...

Xander Crews

Daddy's cars in your profile? lol. Just drive one of his cars instead of picking up a high mileage piece that you're going to have to dump money into.

BTW...Carfax means jack ****. All that shows is if someone's had a documented accident. I had a dealership do a pre-purchase inspection on a car and it had been repainted (the roof, quarter panels, trunk, etc.)...that had a clean Carfax report. :2cents:

LandSeaAir

Well you seem to be relatively intelligent, hence you should be able to figure out that I want my own car.

As far as the ML, decided against it due the stories I have read on this forum about common reoccurring issues with the 98-05 MLs. Also am going to be going to a school in the south, whereas before I thought I would going to school where there would be heavy winters. Recently have I begun to consider the C300, as I wasn't a fan of driving one of the lower Mercedes, however by getting a lower model I will be able to get a newer more reliable model. The 4MATIC will be good too when I do need to drive in the snow.

LandSeaAir

So there are no real common and major issues that have been a problem for the W204? Just checking, when I was looking at CL500s, the ABC suspension was a major concern and is what steered me away. The MLs 98-05 have a boat load of things to worry about.

Sportstick

JDPower data does seem to indicate that from 08 to 10, quality improved, so the newer CPO you can find, the more likely it will not have quality issues. You can also spend for a newer rwd car instead of an older 4MATIC. If you are going to school in the south, you certainly don't need 4MATIC to that degree. I do very well living in Michigan with rear wheel drive and excellent winter tires, such as my Blizzak WS60s.

LandSeaAir

That's nice to know. I was looking at 2000-04 range Mercs and was getting tired of hearing about all these potential issues. You really think 4MATIC adds that much to the pre owned prices? The thing is I will be coming home to NY often where there is snow (just like today), and I will most likely be going to law school in NY. So at one point in my life the 4MATIC would be come useful. Then again my father does fine in the snow in his rwd S550 as you stated you do well in the snow in Michigan. I just figured I might as well get 4MATIC, while under the impression it wouldn't cost much more in the pre owned market.

Sportstick

I just went to edmunds.com and did used car appraisals on identical 2009 C 300, one rwd, one 4matic....difference was just over $2,000.....much rather put that into getting a newer model year.

I'm originally from NYC, and we did just fine with rwd there, assuming the city does at least some plowing! BTW, if you want a J.D., I'm not doing much with mine anymore!!

(I'm probably obligated to clarify that the above is "humor" and does not constitute an offer of any type whatsoever.)

Glyn M Ruck

Good safe car!

jctevere

If you know how to service the cars yourself you will save a bit of cash. But I may be a bit hypocritical and suggest against it. My first car was a 2008 g37 coupe. I was going to buy a used g35 coupe for around $20,000 and then I went to go pick it up and saw the brand new g37 coupe on the lot and got irrational. I leased it for 24 months and paid a total of $17,000 to lease it over that period... It was a mistake, way to much power and the unexpected expenses, I went through a set of tires in 15,000 miles, and I was lucky I didn't get nabbed for a brake job when there was literally nothing left. Not to mention I had 3 hit and runs on the car in parking lots at school and work. Its not worth it to get an expensive car as your first car.

I then bought the c300 to save some money. I got a great deal for a left over 2009 and I plan on driving this car for the next 10 years. (if it serves me an easy 100,000 miles +). There are still times I regret getting another expensive luxury car. The first service was $300 and the second service they wanted was $500... I smartened up and did the second service myself for around $80 in parts, but I know a bit about cars.

I have two 4 matic c-classes in the family and they do just fine in the snow. I don't believe people when they say rwd are just fine in the snow. My fathers SL500 can't get out of the driveway, nor the two mustangs I had prior. Either they have never driven in a all wheel drive during the snow or they are being nieve. I can't imagine snow tires doing much of a difference. On an mustang my older brother had when he put on snow tires it enabled him to get around, but it was very dangerous and unstable, he was better off staying home. It was no where near as good as all wheel drive.

At least you are being a bit more level headed than I was and considering a used car, albeit, an expensive used car. But when a gasoline powered car gets around 70,000 miles on the clock, even with good service it can start to show its age. Now the new w204 c-class may be a bit different but there is not much real world data with these cars at or over 70,000 miles as it only came out in 2008 model. But it really all comes down to if you can work on the car yourself. I don't mean to come off as rude, but it doesn't appear that you as a younger kid, know how to do proper service to a vehicle, nor do I predict anyone in your immediate family. But on my father's 2003 sl500, he had numerous gremlins come up that I was able to research and fix with him. The services and repairs would have cost him well over 4,000 at dealers, but we got away with well under $300 and a few hours of our time.

I would buy a new "nice" car, meaning under $28,000. One where you know where it has been and what has been done to it. One where you can bring it to jiffy lube for a $30 oil change and if you slip up and do something stupid and break something, it won't cost thousands to fix. If I could do it all again, with the cars out now, I would. The new sonata is awesome, along with the elantra, chevy cruze, and kia optima. Even the "cheap" car brands have come a LONG way in todays reliability and features per dollar. The Sonata even offers things that our Mercedes don't. And with its much lower cost of ownership and better fuel economy, you will save more than you think.

When you first start driving you go everywhere and spend money on everything. Things you thought you could afford you find having a tough time paying for. In my g37 I was buying nearly $100 a week in fuel and paying even more in food and outings with friends. I found myself working to pay for a lifestyle that my friends never had to face. I must admit I was at times jealous of those with civics that paid much less to finance the car, much less in car insurance, and much less in fuel and maintenance.

Save yourself the stress, get a cheaper new car that will last you without problems until your out of college, have a real income, and can easily afford a great car.

And lastly, I completely agree that carfax means nothing. My 2008 g37 probably looked like a steal. Clean carfax, 20,000 miles. But little do they know it was repainted 3 times (at budget cheap shops that I definitely knew didn't do a proper job) involved in three accidents. Not well maintained and beaten to death within 2 years. When I gave it in off lease the tires were near bald, there was nothing left to the brake pads and the tranny had a tough time shifting in and out of gears. I was more than hard on the car and I wouldn't buy that car even if it were less than 1/2 its value. So it goes to show you, those "great" deals on craigslist you see, aren't always so great; you get what you pay for and there is no free lunch!

noka

Hey Sportstick, you want to take this one?

jctevere

Haha, I think you missed my main point. In my next sentence I do admit that snow tires do allow a car to "get" through the snow that was previously garage kept. But tires only do so much before physics takes over. I find turning and going much more important than stopping during snow storms (at least where I live I hardly ever have to stop as no one else is on the roads). And this is where the awd dominates rwd.

I would take all-wheel drive and all seasons over a rwd with snow tires any time. Not to mention that it is an added pain. Having to buy a second set of tires and rims dedicated for winter driving, then storing your other set of rims and tires. So much so that people just skip doing it all together. But I may be a bit biased, maybe some cars do better than others in the snow with snow tires; with proper driving techniques. But in my experience even highly rated michelin snow tires didn't improve winter driving performance to a point where it was safer or even safe for that matter, to drive an rwd with snow tires on snow covered roads.

Not to mention that we are talking about a new driver. I would hardly recommend a rwd for winter conditions, or even go as far as driving in wet or dry conditions. AWD is better in almost every way than rwd, so my question is, why not?

LandSeaAir

I appreciate such a long and well thought out response and I see a lot where you are coming from.

I know you weren't expecting this, but believe it or not my father and I service all our cars (as much we can). Brakes, oil, air cleaner and some other simple stuff. Sure there are some advanced stuff we can't do but believe it or not doing the brakes on a Merc is really not hard. We've do it twice on the S550 and once on the SL55. I watched/helped my dad do many brake jobs, oil changes fuel filters etc. I will admit we have not touched the 997 I think he is a bit intimidated by it, we've done the oil on it though. I am lucky to have someone like my father to teach me, he's pretty good. He's a lawyer now but was very skillful with handyman/automotive work in his younger years and still is.

But anyway, when I get my car whatever it is I truly plan on servicing it my self with the help of my dad.

Its nice to hear finally I have found a good car for myself with reliability.

Hey I just noticed you live on LI, me too!

hannes

Hi,

if I were in your position I would forgo the 4Matic for a younger car with fewer miles. Sure, 4Matic combined with proper winter tires is fantastic in the snow but as you are going to be attending college in the South you are not really going to need it all that much. You may be planning on going to law school in NY now, but seriously, you are in 11th grade now, who knows, maybe in 5 years you'll end up as a fashion designer in SoCal or at medical school in Texas. As you put it yourself you may need 4Matic "at one point in [your] life".

In the meantime you are just burdening yourself with a heavy addition that is going to cost you in performance and real money (not only upfront, but also in fuel economy. I drive a C320 CDI 4Matic and it's not exactly economical). For the occasional trip back home rwd + winter tires + careful driving is going to be just fine.

Hope you find a nice C, good luck!

Sportstick

Sorry I was away....actually spend some time doing other things.

I am sorry if anyone cannot imagine what I have experienced and still do. When I go out to my garage right now, there is a rwd C300 and a E3504MATIC, as well as a 4WD Jeep, so I think my experience counts for something, notwithstanding the 30 to 40 cars of different drive configurations I've had in the past 40 years...lost count.

Preferring AWD with all seasons to rwd with snow tires is simply incorrect, and not a matter of preference. One needs to better understand tire compound chemistry to realize the fallacy behind that illogical conclusion. Once the harder, longer-lasting rubber compounds used in even all season tires freezes, and a vehicle is on a low mu (look it up) surface, it does not matter how many wheels are spinning. Considering turning and going more important than stopping is another amazing comment I would not let guide anyone else's decision. Impact is the threat to life and property. Not going, if that even happens, is a mere inconvenience. And, again, the science is faulty. With winter tires propelling the vehicle from the rear, winter tires at the front are very capable of turning, rather than sliding straight forward as frozen all-season tires are prone to do. This discussion is not about an over-engined, high-torque vehicle which will tend to spin rear wheels at small throttle angles.

Enough classroom...I drive these cars and tires and have for years, so forum members can take my opinion for what they think it is worth. With the same winter tires, does AWD have an advantage...of course it does!! Does a Sherman tank with another layer of armor provide even more protection? Yes, again! But, how much is enough and what are the trade-offs? For this young buyer, with his budget and his geography, the question is what is the optimal decision versus overdoing one attribute while sub-optimizing others?

My further opinion is that the real reason for the erroneous preference of all season tires on AWD comes clear in the middle paragraph...this is an outpouring of dissonance reduction to justify unwillingness about an actually minor inconvenience of tire changes. So be it, but for this young driver to buy an older, higher-mileage 4MATIC car within his budget for the occasional moderate benefit on paved roadways of AWD for occasional trips home from school (my guess - Emory), will sub-optimize his overall purchase, perhaps to his significant detriment as he cannot get to class on schedule while he waits for the MB Service courtesy shuttle to take him back to campus, even just a few extra times. And, if his ultimate requirement is the most possible snow capability, then he needs winter tires in any event.

So, in conclusion, my personal and lengthy experience suggests that overall reliability is more important than the incremental and very occasional benefit of AWD, and that is best achieved by spending his budget on a newer model year and some good tires, which he would need anyway. If he wins the lottery, then he could reconsider, although AWD does add enough weight to make the car less responsive and feel bulkier/less fun to drive, but that is another topic.

And, to all, a good night!

Sportstick

One more thing....there is a lot of very good advice in the SECOND half of this posting, especially considering a Sonata (front wheel drive, but still get winter tires if driving in snow is a concern!). You'll get less heat from new classmates than if you show up in a Benz and will not be able to help but look "over-privileged"...not a great way to make new friends.

Mixedfruits

Well I hope You enjoy you c300 Im 16 now first car acura tsx still 16 second car c300 Boy its a good upgrade

jctevere

I really have no idea where this outburst came from as I never directed anything towards you... But in any case, one suggestion I can give you would be to stop being so ignorant. Just because you may be older, does not mean you know more or are right.

And I don't really get what the first line was about... I get notification emails immediately to my iPhone and respond to them without having to stay home at a computer on a friday night.

On to the issue at hand... I am well versed in the field of physics and don't have to lookup what mu is to know its the coefficient of friction between two surfaces... But what you fail to recognize is that tires aren't everything. If you want to use physics and chemistry, you have to look at it all, not just what is convenient for your case.

AWD is superior to rwd in snow conditions for the pure reason that it not only pushes the car through a corner (rwd), but also pulls a car around a corner in the direction the wheels are turned (fwd). Not to mention that the tires at the front have much more grip and traction than the rear as it has much more weight on top of it (engine) rather than an empty trunk.

I'm not denying that the rubber compound in snow tires is more effective than those in all-seasons. I'm just weighing in on the real world effectiveness of rwd with snow tires vs awd with all-season tires. I'd say its a toss up, the first configuration has better stopping capability, but the second has better acceleration and cornering in the snow. I never meant that braking capability wasn't important, I was implying that when comparing the two configurations, there is not as important of a gap in braking ability between proper winter rated all season tires and snow tires. The more important difference is where and how the vehicle applies power and drives through the snow (fwd vs rwd vs awd). If people drive like they are supposed to in winter and drive slowly, stopping is rarely the problem.

While I may have only been driving for 5 years, I have probably driven more cars than most people have their entire lives, certainly more than 30-40. Ranging from budget kias and toyotas, all the way up to exotics like ferraris, maserattis and lamborghinis, in many winter conditions and taken many driving classes. I am certain it is much easier to control an awd with all seasons in the snow (granted they were dws) than rwd with blizzaks, or even pirelli's. (espeically for your average Joe) The blizzaks are great for snow, but thats about it. Poor dry traction and a mushy feeling (which lets face it, most people drive on dry pavement during winter than on the occasional snow) lead to me favoring the pirelli snowsports or sottozeros over blizzaks. I will say when it comes to very icy conditions, the all-seasons become dicy, but winter tires are no saving grace either...

The only reason I am writing and going on so much about this is because I am very emphatic about this topic. And what boggles my mind is how people are saying to go for the rwd and use the extra money gained from forgoing the 4matic to get a newer model year with fewer miles... Why are you overlooking the cost to get winter tires and separate winter rims? This cost easily can exceed the cost of 4matic from the start. Especially when you consider the average life span of around 2 seasons for winter tire effectiveness (compound and tread), plus where you will store the extra set? Then you also have to worry about wear and replacing an additional set of tires (for the other three seasons) and getting a proper balance each time... These costs certainly add up.

And why exactly are you ragging on the reliability of the 4matic systems? Its not like were in the 90s in the days of the w124. The 4matic system in the 204 is very good and requires little maintenance and has proven to be very reliable. Maybe replace some front cv boots after 10 years. I'm convinced that the 4matic system pays for itself in savings of winter tire changes and resale value alone...

I'm glad we can both agree on my second part... But in my abridged opinion, get the 4matic and just place some good all season tires like Continental Extreme Contact DWS. I love how quick and nimble my 4matic is... Slices through corners like a sharp knife through warm butter (keep in mind im coming from a g37s coupe and have driven many other very fast cars). I only sense a slight difference between 4matic and rwd under full out straight line acceleration, but its not like rwd makes the car feel like a rocketship. If anything the difference could be accounted more to confirmation bias than the actual real performance gains. But in the end, the decision is yours; and I think that both me and sportstick can agree that we have provided you with more than enough information on our respective sides of the topic. Haha.

jctevere

Yes, I live in the Dix Hills area in Suffolk county, you anywhere near?

I was just like you and my father was the same way. He used to be an auto mechanic in his younger days and constantly complains that cars are getting too hi-tech, lol!

I do all the services on my vehicles now by myself (my father has taught me mostly everything). And now with all the great DIY people post online, it is simple for even the least mechanically inclined. In fact, I find that Mercedes or german made cars are much easier to service than most other cars you would expect to be easy (especially american ones --- what a pain in the ****!).

Personally, I would push you more towards the Audi segment if you are stuck on the whole luxury used car thing... You will enjoy working on the car and find a plethora of aftermarket upgrades available that will keep your car feeling fresh and new for years (that you can easily install yourself). Sometimes I wish there was more aftermarket support for mercedes besides the high end thousand dollar kits made by brabus and the likes...

Not only does the Audi offer awd standard (on virtually all of their car models), but quattro is quite arguably superior to the 4matic system and audis are much more youthful and fun to drive, and you can find used ones for dirt cheap. Still great quality and reliability, but also great performance while maintaining a pleasant fuel economy figure.

Sportstick

Wow...don't take it so personally...as you may know from reading my posts, I never call a person names, insult their gender, heritage, etc. I don't believe I called you ignorant or naive. I just go after the topic or the behaviors/thoughts involved, and in this case, find the ones you now hold to be ill-advised and in some cases, just simply inaccurate. That doesn't make you a bad guy. I also don't think my age makes me any more correct, but I think it is reasonable to agree that experience probably does.

My first comment was in response to Noka's invitation in his earlier post, not directed to you, as I usually respond more quickly than in this case because I probably am not as busy anymore as some others, so I was celebrating being busy...sorry if the humor was too dry.

In any event, please re-read, I've "had" 30-40 cars...driven hundreds, having been an employee of an automobile manufacturer with the evaluation opportunities of our test track and, yes, the usual Bondurant and Barber events.

Of course, AWD provides some advantage, again, as I said, although that has been narrowed with the advent of electronic chassis features, such as ESP on rwd cars. With a 54/46 weight distribution (notice front and rear spindle to overhang differences), the C Class is no Mustang, so historical images of snow-bound muscle cars sliding out the rears do not apply.

But, none of that is the issue. I still think you've missed the key point...how much benefit, how often, for what cost? He's not going to Vermont! These are variables, not absolutes, which change for each buyer and in this case, given less than unlimited budget, the priorities are not in favor of devoting limited financial resources to AWD. We will just disagree on the role of tires, although there may be even better winter tires than Blizzak, such as Nokians mentioned by another forum member, for better dry weather handling. But endorsing all seasons for anyone concerned about winter driving remains needlessly high risk, regardless of rwd or awd.

It's great that you are enjoying the DWS year round, but you have also decided to trade off the dry weather capability of your car by not selecting a superior 3 season tire, such as Michelin's PS2 or even Pilot Sport A/S Plus. No C Class short of a C63 approaches "rocket ship", but once you load up with an automatic transmission and then 4MATIC on top of that, it's quite a different financial and driving experience from the starting point, as a new dealer loaner reinforced recently.

Nowhere did I suggest 4MATIC is poor reliability. Again, read the posts. The JDPower data suggests that, for the entire car, reliability improved from 2008 to 2010, where C Class won the Initial Quality Award for the entire segment! The point is that the newer the overall C Class, the less likely he will have any quality issues with his whole car, nothing said specifically about 4MATIC. As I said, I have one in my garage, after 4 earlier ones. The OP's priorities include not spending any excess time or energy on car repairs, which is where we both agreed about looking at the Sonata, et. al.

I remained amazed at your complaint about a 20 lug nut wheel changes. Store the mounted winter tires in the garage, the apartment house basement locker, frat house closet, anywhere...they are not that large. Some tire dealers or indy shops will store them for a very modest charge. The swap takes about 10 minutes. I'm not suggesting he should mount and balance them himself...it's a minor task for a major benefit. A set of 4 Blizzaks, mounted on new wheels (one time buy), with TPMS and shipping was $1400. A subsequent set of new tires is ~$600. So, someone truly concerned about winter driving would be immediately out of pocket close to $3400 for the used 4MATIC versus $1400, for a moderate, very intermittent (based on his planned usage) benefit, because on a used C Class, the incremental price differential for 4MATIC is over $2000. Tire life will vary with usage, but 2 years is definitely on the short side with 3-4 seasons more common with typical mileage. He might get through a southern college before needing new snows, given the short time he might use them each year. But, your economics don't appear to account for the mileage NOT incurred on the 3 season tires during the winter. Nor do you address the admittedly speculative benefit of the the crash avoided by having clearly superior tires when stopping is required. There is no need to rebalance a wheel/tire unit simply because it's been off the car. Re-balancing is advised based on mileage, whether it's for the winter or non-winter tires as they each achieve ~5,000 miles. I guess I wish I had always lived a life as free from inconvenience as I infer yours to be......

In any event, where you're right, you're right, and much of your posting had good advice on new car shopping. But, we will go down different paths on the relative need for AWD or winter tires.

Sportstick

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...emium-vehicle/