OasisNYK

I currently drive an 01 BMW 330i and its starting to have too many issues to keep on driving it.

I have been looking at some CPO 2011 C300's and I can get a decent deal on one from my local dealer. I also really like the facelift design.

I am curious what the most common issues are with the car. On my BMW I know the control arm bushings need replacing often, that there is a known subframe issue, and every 60-70k you need to replace the water pump because it goes bad and can cause severe damage to the car. At 80-100k you most likely need to do a coolant system refresh, and its also a good idea to change the transmission fluid before too long.

Is there a list of items you can expect on the MB?

Domm

Other than general maintenance, no one has really had any consistent issues with the w204.. Maybe a failing ignition for a few cars and interior rattling for the non-facelift. The face lifted w204 seems to be solid so far.

On a different note, get the lighting package!

Sportstick

I agree there is no predictable list of problems on the 204. After almost 4 years, mine has been about the most reliable car I've ever owned. Do keep in mind that moving from BMW to MB means you are trading some degree of fun for comfort, but gaining some reliability in the bargain.

papashango

In terms of fun, I would think that a next to new Benz would most likely be more 'fun' than a 11 year old Bimmer.

Sportstick

I am not discussing the lack of fun of repairing an older car, or the appeal of novelty. The cars are designed to different dynamic objectives, more than some may realize, and over decades, BMWs have consistently been more oriented to entertaining the driver in chassis and powertrain response while MB's are clearly more focused on comfort and refinement. Pick your pleasure, but know they are different.

papashango

Perhaps you misunderstood.

I know exactly in what context you used the term fun there. What I am stating though is that I don't think a BMW that's over a decade old would be more fun (dynamically/driving experience) than a new Benz. Since the OP seems to be comparing a 01 BMW to the 11 Benz. I would be concerned about the fun factor, if both the vehicles being compared were 11's. Then of course one can make the fun argument since BMW's are designed for those purposes.

Sportstick

Well, I am assuming that the OP is moving on from his older Bimmer due to reliability issues, so the comparison you suggest of an 01 vs an 11 did not seem likely...he implies he's on the path to buying something, perhaps another BMW if not the MB.

But, even if that were the case, we will probably have to agree to disagree on your quote I excerpted above. 10 years of age, in a properly maintained BMW, will not degrade it's entertainment factor over a new comparable C. When I sold my last BMW, it was 13 years old, and performed as new. Meanwhile, fun is one of the lesser qualities of a C250, per multiple reports, while comfort and refinement has been questioned in a variety of Bimmers.

Again, none of these qualities is inherently superior...some like one approach, some, the other. But, if the OP is new to MB, he should at least know about the difference.

wireless200

Well he should go test drive both. My wife and I test drove an '11 BMW and an '11 MB and the MB was more fun *and* more comfortable. Better across the board. The BMW did not exceed it any way. Only an argument could be made on exterior styling IMO.

papashango

Well it is a known fact that BMW focuses on dynamic driving in their cars. By which I mean the focus is more on the driving experience (suspension, power etc) than comfort per se. Having owned several of both, I guess I can make comparisons. For example, you are able to throw Bimmer's around the corners at higher speeds and they are able to maintain tight line rather nicely vs Benz's, that are perhaps for the lack of a better word, a little less agile. But I wouldn't put the Benz THAT far behind BMW's in that department, as I wouldn't put the BMW's THAT far behind the Benz in the comfort department.

I can see how a brand new 335i would be more 'fun' to drive than a brand new C350. Simply because of the turbo and more power/torque. But I would never think that a 01 BMW could hold anything to a new Benz of the equivalent or albeit even a lower model. Simply because of the fact that one has aged quite a bit, regardless of how they were maintained. They will most likely have less power than the newer counterpart and have deteriorated in general due to it's age.

But yea if the OP is considering equivalent models of both the makes, i.e. 2011's, then for sure he'd have to make a choice pertaining to whether he wants more agility/power, translating to fun (as per my definition of the term in this context) of the BMW or more comfort/ride quality of the Benz.

Sportstick

OasisNYK...this chat has certainly demonstrated the subjective nature of car appreciation, which leads me to the only thing wireless200 said with which I concur...make sure you drive your choices before anything gets signed!

OasisNYK

Thanks for all of the replies - I would like to weigh in on the fun factor difference between a MB and a BMW. I have driven a bunch of different BMW's and a couple of MB and I know there is definitely a difference in the way they drive. They are both fun to drive but they are different.

I have driven the recent model year BMW's but the last MB I test drove was the pre face lift C. I have also been lucky renting through Hertz and got to drive a recent E-class as well (a little too big for me but a very nice car).

As far as comparison from an 01 to an 11 - I am sure there will be differences - the 09, 10, and 11 BMW's that I have test driven are much more responsive than my car but the overall feel is about the same. I will say that for an 11 year old car mine drives great, it just keeps needing work.

I dropped $2k in it last month for a new battery and fixed 2 oil leaks (the car has had 5 leaks), and last week my coolant light came on right before I was supposed to take a road trip - mechanic says I need a new thermostat, expansion tank is cracked (leaking coolant all over the place) and new hoses - another grand of work at least. Plus it needs front control arm bushings ($700) and the rear suspension mounts are torn. Problems aside, it still drives great. For a car with only 86k on it I am tired of throwing money at it.

I am also looking for something with AWD - when it snows my car is a death trap. It also seems like the CPO C's are less expensive and have lower mileage than the equivalent BMW's so value also has an impact on my decision. The facelift is also appealing to me as I think it is a really awesome looking car.

Sportstick

This thread can go off in a different direction if you wish, but try to search for discussions on AWD versus dedicated winter tires. Without rehashing the entire prior debate, I run rear wheel drive with Blizzak WS60 (studless) very successfully in Michigan and don't carry around the performance and mpg-robbing, understeer-inducing 100 or so extra pounds over the front axle. But, then again, I've already swapped out my antisway bars for the Eibach set-up, so my requirements are likely not typical. My wife's E3504MATIC also runs Blizzaks, and there is a difference, but not as great as one might expect and not worth it to me. Your BMW's problem was much more likely the tires than the car.

Domm

You can refer to this thread for additional info as well:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...87-mb-bmw.html

OasisNYK

Thanks - that was actually one of the first threads I read.

I am interested if anyone has experience with the certified pre owned cars?

Does the warranty cover the cost of servicing the car? What about things like changing brake fluid and coolant flushes?

Is there a general recommended maintenance schedule?

Sportstick

Warranty does not cover maintenance, such as any fluid changes.
The recommended maintenance is very well described in the owner's manual package and should show whether prior maintenance was completed on schedule, in addition to other repair order paperwork. Make sure that package is in the glovebox of the car you are considering.

Scat01

As mentioned numerous times, I had 3 BMW's in a row prior to this C350, the most recent was a 2004 330CI which is basically what the poster is coming out of - There is a very minimal performance variance between these two cars, seriously, in a blindfold test (which would suck due to the driving part) I believe a very high majority of drivers would not be able to tell the difference.

I would suggest to the OP to purchase a C350 if you can find one and it fits your budget, there is a more noticeable performance difference between a C300 and C350 than you will find between the Beamer and Benz...just my (experienced) opinion.

Sportstick

No doubt many would not know the difference, and taken to a greater extreme, between a MB and Lexus either. The ability to distinguish is a function of how sensitive and detail-oriented one is...comparing different vintages of wine is a good analogy. Just to be clear, as you mention "performance", in case you are primarily comparing acceleration with an automatic trans, I agree it may be more difficult to distinguish. The moment one turns the wheel and feels the steering response, feedback, and chassis behavior, it should become evident to an enthusiast. There is another thread somewhere nearby about the overall "looseness" of MB steering, whether one prefers that or not.

LILBENZ230

But the people here who post are enthusiasts. I know personally I would immediately know the difference having driven both E46 and W204. The E46 was a special car!

OasisNYK

The e46 is a very special car and the e90 is pretty nice too (different).

I am definitely aware of the differences in all of these cars and I believe performance wise they are on a similar level and it just comes down to preference on specific aspects of the ride and the quality of the interior. Either way you can't go wrong.

So the warranty doesn't cover fluid changes - what about brakes etc?


BMW covers the following:

• Engine Oil Services
• Inspection Services
• Wiper Blade Inserts
• Brake Pads
• Brake Discs
• Engine Drive Belts
• Brake Fluid Service

jetflyboy

I Got my MB after 10 years in a 325! Beemer. I put over 180k miles on it and it was becoming more trouble as time went on, strictly due to age. The time was right for a newer car, and I thought It was time, IMO, to upgrade my ride. My Beemer served me very well, but as Bob Dylan said: Times, they are a changing

I always thought Mercedes was the more prestigious car, but I never thought it is not a fun car as well. Another selfish reason I had was that it seems like every third car you see is a BMW, 3 or 5 series. I know it is a silly thing, but...

With my C300 Sport, I am having a helluvalota fun in every way possible.
As for issues, I think both brands are very reliable, and as long as we drive, we will have issues that need to be fixed...and that is not an issue.

Toast

I did that exact switch in early 2010, traded in my 330i with 157k kms for a brand new C300. Like you said, the 330i is a fairly maintenance intensive car but was a joy to own. The car starting to develop more problems with age and at that point I am no longer comfortable letting my family members use it so I did the switch.

After 32k kms and 2 years of ownership, the C300 has proven to be very reliable. Maintance costs seems to be less than the BMW (Canadian cars do not have the free scheduled maintenance program the US cars have) and all the components of the car seems to be of a higher quality and/or more durable material.

To me the switch was a good move but I do occasionally miss having a BMW, maybe I'll pick up a used Z3 M Coupe in the future.

Scat01

I appreciate your knowledge sportstick, (except for the Lexus comment - entirely different world than the MB or BMW as far as feedback to the driver, different topic, dif day).

That said, I really am not trying to argue for the sake of arguing here, but I disagree strongly that there is a major difference within the steering and chassis behavior of the two cars, and I put over 100K on the 330 CI and about 25K on this car so far - the steering and reaction is very similiar in both cars, and as you know the CI is a 2 door coupe...

now, I admit that I cannot tell the difference between a $12 bottle and a $50 bottle of wine, but driving is something I really appreciate.....I am a very aggressive driver, enthusiast may or may not describe me, but I have always owned cars that are above average from a performance standpoint and drive them as hard anyone else I know..

Regardless, hopefully this friendly banter is beneficial to the OP...

Scat01

Exactly what model E46 did you drive and was it owned or did you rip around town in someone else's car for a couple hours? Same question for the W204?

Sportstick

Always enjoy the banter...that's why we are here and imagine how boring it would be if we all agreed on everything!

The point with the Lexus was simply to exaggerate to illustrate that different folks are sensitive to different amount of variance. I can assure you if I put my 86 year old mom in all these cars, she could not tell them apart dynamically, including the Lexus. We are all on this sensitivity scale...just at very different places, although among forum members, one would expect we would cluster as more similar to each other.

This is an interesting subject, as it may even have a more basic neurological component. I maintain that I can tell a MB from a BMW just based on steering feel and chassis response. My doctor will also say that I am one of the most sensitive patients he's had to small changes...events that most people would not react to or even notice. So, subjectivity likely again rules the day, as we are all different, experience the world differently, and like to talk about it. Here's one to keep someone occupied on subjectivity. Prove to yourself and your significant other that when you both see what you call the color "red", you are actually having the same internal subjective experience!! Have fun with that one!

Doanster

Stock sport suspensions on both seem to favor the BMW, but the w204 is certainly better than other makes in that you can truly feel the difference vs just being a line item on the MSRP sheet.
As for the original question/post, I, too, have had basically zero issues w/ the car (40K on the clock now) and am hoping that it's not just because there's not enough time/mileage. Only thing of note that was fixed under warranty was a pulley swap due to an infrequent whine/tick. Otherwise, just standard maintenance. Knock on wood!