kevink2

Ok, that's only 1 of 6 that unconditionally "loved" these H&R Super Sport springs.


How about some very helpful information from the "H&R SS six" please? This is how to get to the root cause !!


1) what size wheels ?
2) did you change shocks from oem ?
3) did you change shocks, if yes was it before, during, or after spring install ?
4) how many miles on odo when SS springs installed ?
5) did you change thickness of front or rear spring top cushions ?
6) what installed thicknesses of F&R cushions ?
7) dealer installed or who else ?
8) did you modify/cut the rubber bump-stops on the shocks ( hidden by front bellows and rear outer dust shield ) ?
9) at final assembly, was the car put in an "as driven" condition when the rear lower shock mounts were torqued ?

Rear Shock Assembly


Please every SS spring owner answer as many of these questions as you can ... after you enjoy the 4th of course

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rb23lb

Thanks so much for your detailed response! Wow. See my responses above in RED Great collection of people who hate their H&R SS ride quality...

I am pissed I wasted money on them since I believed earlier posters that ride quality wasn't that bad.... And I don't think that changing the pads back to 13mm will be enough to correct it...

So I am planning on selling mine ASAP as soon as I figure out what coil overs to get...

kevink2

It's still possible there is an installation problem. The SS springs have an obvious dual rate:





The several closely spaced coils on each spring represent a soft initial rate, not much higher than stock. When the load (cornering, stopping @ front, etc) is high enough to have the soft section go into coil-bind (no space between coils), then just the widely spaced coils are active and represent a stiff rate. There is a transition between the two spring rates.

Very few springs are truely progressive.

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IW IE IS IT IA

I'm on H&R Super Sports

kevink2

Well how did the ride feel vs OEM springs? .. rough ride? any knocking?

And how about helping solve some ride issues other SS owners had, by answering the 9 questions I listed in post#27. It does not have to be the nice way rb32lb did it .... could just list answers. There is no bad answer.

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IW IE IS IT IA

My personal Opinion is that stock will be better anything out there,and if you want to mod you car that's the price you will have to pay,I'm running H&R SS and I think there fine,I really don't feel it beging bumpy like what the other H&R SS peps are saying

kevink2

I moved the reply from the other thread, as here we are trying to get some input form those who had H&R SS springs on.

If you don't mind, please answer the 9 questions listed above. Also a few just for you :

On your custom springs, did you go linear, were the oem's linear?
When you installed the SS's, did you get most of the full drop right away?
With the SS's, do you think the car sat without coil binding the closely spaced coils?

With dual rate springs like these, you are supposed to ride w/o coil bind in the closely spaced coils, for a slightly stiffer ride with all coils "active", vs oem rate.

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kevink2

I'm replying here as we are trying to get some resolution to how these SS springs are supposed to perform, and this is an update to your comment captured in my user summary on post #26.

Would you perform the 2x4 roll-on test I suggested before?

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kevink2

Can anyone see the closely wound coils (F or R) on the parked car? Are those gaps between coils closed as the car sits?

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kevink2

I moved the reply to this thread, where others are dealing with the same problem. Your "good medium" is a custom wound spring, as JimmjGrreek noted on post #32.

I think the problem is most likely the oem shock is too soft for this spring when it is compressed into the stiff zone. There the spring is loosing travel and gets a very high rate (with all closely spaced coils now touching each other --- no gaps.

I'l call H&R again Monday.

rb23lb

KEVIN K, you are the man!

such awesome attention to detail in your helpful posts!

caligreenzzz

Carlow202

1) what size wheels? 18" OEM AMG Wheels
2) did you change shocks from oem? No
3) did you change shocks, if yes was it before, during, or after spring install? N/A
4) how many miles on odo when SS springs installed? around 81,000
5) did you change thickness of front or rear spring top cushions? No
6) what installed thicknesses of F&R cushions? N/A, kept stock pads
7) dealer installed or who else? Self installed with a friend of mine
8) did you modify/cut the rubber bump-stops on the shocks ( hidden by front bellows and rear outer dust shield )? No
9) at final assembly, was the car put in an "as driven" condition when the rear lower shock mounts were torqued ? N/A

I did complain that the ride was a bit bouncy but it really isnt. It's just the ride is a little bit more rough than the oem springs and it was just me getting used to it once again. I havent had a lowered car since i had my w202 back in 2007, so it's been awhile. I actually love it now although it is still settling as i've only had it on for about a week...

From my experience on installing it, it seems like it could be an installation issue for the rest of the other members. My friend and I actually spent more time trying to get the springs to sit in place properly and it was definitely a pain in the **** as we kept compressing and decompressing the spring until we got it right. It could be that these shops did not pay close attention to how the springs were seated into the pads. Otherwise, it could be the bump stop issue, logically it makes sense especially to those that changed their rear pads to 5mm.

Norm01

1) what size wheels ? 19
2) did you change shocks from oem ? No
3) did you change shocks, if yes was it before, during, or after spring install ?
4) how many miles on odo when SS springs installed ? 30k
5) did you change thickness of front or rear spring top cushions ? No
6) what installed thicknesses of F&R cushions ?
7) dealer installed or who else ? Self
8) did you modify/cut the rubber bump-stops on the shocks ( hidden by front bellows and rear outer dust shield ) ? No
9) at final assembly, was the car put in an "as driven" condition when the rear lower shock mounts were torqued ? No, this does not make sense as shocks have a lower bushing that rotates.


I have been modifying cars for 25+ years and there is always a trade off, usually negatively. Stock is always best, when you change something expect negative consequences. You won't beat factory engineers and millions of dollars of research. That being said, I do not find the car bouncy as some have reported. Harsh, yes. However that was expected. What I am disappointed with is the hard "clunk" sound when I hit bumps. Keep in mind I live in pot hole heaven and this is a combination of very bad roads, 19's and the SS. It's so bad I recently inspected the whole suspension as I was convinced something was loose. I now believe the sound is the softer rate center coils collapsing on each other. You will notice H&R wrapped that section with a plastic liner. Do I like these springs, hell no. Do I like the look of the car lowered, hell yes. Coil overs next I guess, wonder about air bags?

rb23lb

Thanks for feedback....

Looks like changing back to stock 13mm pads may be what i need to do...

I know the hard bump you were talking about...

Do you think Bilstein B8s (shocks made for lowering springs with shorter travel) would alleviate the springs collapsing on eachother?

kevink2

Thanks for the feedback. Agree completely. What you descibed as tough was "clocking" the spring ends to match the contoured rubber seats or pads.

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kevink2

I have posted about the same problem .... dual rate (not progressive as advertised) springs are a tricky design to get right. If you have the the same number of widely spaced coils as narrow spaced ones, then you double the initial rate when you collapse the close coils. But if you have say 8 active coils, and six of them are closely spaced, then when the collapse occurs into the stiff rate, that rate is now quadruple the initial rate. Bottom line for "dual rate" springs, you want more of the widely space coils than closely spaced ones, to avoid a dramitic change in rate.

ref: K_spring = (Gd^4)/(8ND^3) for linear spring, d=wire dia, D=coil dia, N=number of active coils

When you inspected the springs, did you get a feel for the % of coils that were closely spaced, front vs rear? And do you think the car rides with the close coils already collapsed?

Thanks for the great input.

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Knightmare69

1) what size wheels ? 18x8.5 with 225/40 all around
2) did you change shocks from oem? Bilstein B8 on order, currently on OEM LUX shocks
3) did you change shocks, if yes was it before, during, or after spring install? N/A
4) how many miles on odo when SS springs installed? about 20000km +/-
5) did you change thickness of front or rear spring top cushions? No
6) what installed thicknesses of F&R cushions? N/A
7) dealer installed or who else? Indy mech shop using provided install guide from the forum
8) did you modify/cut the rubber bump-stops on the shocks ( hidden by front bellows and rear outer dust shield )? Never any indication that it needed this.
9) at final assembly, was the car put in an "as driven" condition when the rear lower shock mounts were torqued? Tq'd as spec

Knightmare69

I think you're making a huge mistake there, going to CO's will in most cases just make your ride harsher. The way I see it is you have 2 options if you're priority is comfort. Switch to a higher height spring ie. H&R Sport or Eibach or go back to stock.

rb23lb

ya actually i agree and am changing my mind from selling... I now want to get the B8s like you since that should help comfort, and I am going to go back to the 13mm rear pads... I emailed the bilstein facebook page to find out how the heck to get the B8s since they arent listed on any US website...

I woulndt want to go eichbach or regular sport because I have seen pictures and the drop is not even noticeable from a stock sport (not luxury) w204.... which boggles my mind how it even handles better or what the effect of eichbach or ss is supposed to be...

i think coils will still be harsh, but they will be less bouncy....

Knightmare69

Well there is a difference between Eibach and H&R spring functionality. I read up on it once, something about progressive and something else. I think you should try to find info about it and read up. Something about how one set works as it's being compressed and the other works even before compression I think.

Also, consider, as a DD, just how low you really need for the car to perform to your standards or is really more for looks? There's a fine line on a DD and many of us cross it because we think lower is better and to a certain extent it is, but like I said, on a DD, will you really use that lowness to it's full potential?

Alot of ppl on other boards have stated, sway bars are actually more effective in keeping your cat planted on the turns. On straight-ways, even a mild drop will be more than sufficient for legal speed.

kevink2

Excellent point. These super drop springs, regardless of what the adds say, are more for show than go. They try to give the look of a coil-over race suspension, using much cheaper dual rate springs. If it looks "good", then mission accomplished. You are supposed to crawl over RR Track crossings, or entering a steep driveway, etc.

Most of the people that I know that wanted more performance on various cars from siffer springs, when with linear (H-Tech, Carlsson) or mild progressive ( H&R Sport, Eibach Pro-kit). This gave about a 1" drop or so.

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kevink2

That should help with "bouncy", but still may get the bang as the spring changes from soft to stiff.

The Eibach Pro-kit and H&R sport springs have a stiffer rate vs oem, and a mild transition from stiff to extra stiff, and is the prefered spring for track use, vs the "slam" versions of the springs. Could also consider Carlsson springs (but just based on pic's).

Many people with various cars have installed coilover kits (typ. adjustable height and damping, with linear springs, sold as a matched set), and they reported back that the ride was better than stock. Better meaning it gave them the stiffer ride needed for cornering and braking, but delivered in a strait forward way ... not dual rate springs, bump stop worries, etc.

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rb23lb

the w204 is not my DD... the springs are more for looks, which is why if I can make it slightly more comfortable with B8 shocks, then I am all for it, just like you are doing....

rb23lb

Well now I am hearing two different things... you say coils are better for comfort and knightmare69 says coil overs I will regret and that they are harsher...

Sport and Eichbach dont even drop the car noticably, so IMO what is the point since I will doubt they perform much better than stock which are already shorter springs than luxury....