Do I really need to Polish the hard clearcoat?
07-19-2012, 01:03 PM
#26
Okay cool I'll look into it. My car is silver so the swirls are hidden pretty well, so I am thinking of just living with them and sealing and waxing the car. That way i'll leave the clearcoat original and I won't cut into it.
10-02-2012, 10:03 PM
#28
Hey guys,
New here to the forum as i have recently acquired a blk C350 and fairly long time detailer. I am coming from an Acura TLS with extremely soft clear coat. I am used to the method of wash >clay> polish> seal> wax.
From what I am reading on here you do not recommend polishing due to the ceramiclear.
This leads me to the question of how I am supposed to rid my car of the micromarring that occurred before I became the owner?
There doesnt seem to be any opposition to polishing this clear over on autopia so I am just trying to double and triple check the correct process before I begin.
New here to the forum as i have recently acquired a blk C350 and fairly long time detailer. I am coming from an Acura TLS with extremely soft clear coat. I am used to the method of wash >clay> polish> seal> wax.
From what I am reading on here you do not recommend polishing due to the ceramiclear.
This leads me to the question of how I am supposed to rid my car of the micromarring that occurred before I became the owner?
There doesnt seem to be any opposition to polishing this clear over on autopia so I am just trying to double and triple check the correct process before I begin.
10-02-2012, 11:30 PM
#29
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Hey guys,
New here to the forum as i have recently acquired a blk C350 and fairly long time detailer. I am coming from an Acura TLS with extremely soft clear coat. I am used to the method of wash >clay> polish> seal> wax.
From what I am reading on here you do not recommend polishing due to the ceramiclear.
This leads me to the question of how I am supposed to rid my car of the micromarring that occurred before I became the owner?
There doesnt seem to be any opposition to polishing this clear over on autopia so I am just trying to double and triple check the correct process before I begin.
New here to the forum as i have recently acquired a blk C350 and fairly long time detailer. I am coming from an Acura TLS with extremely soft clear coat. I am used to the method of wash >clay> polish> seal> wax.
From what I am reading on here you do not recommend polishing due to the ceramiclear.
This leads me to the question of how I am supposed to rid my car of the micromarring that occurred before I became the owner?
There doesnt seem to be any opposition to polishing this clear over on autopia so I am just trying to double and triple check the correct process before I begin.
10-03-2012, 06:35 AM
#30
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W203 slightly modified
I've always polished my cars, Meguiar's #7 and #26. With Mercedes hard clearcoat (ceramic particles) I'm thinking its not going to do any good.
Polishes usually feed the paint. This isn't going to touch the paint.
My other cars were dark colors with clearcoat. Always looked great.
Am I wasting my time. I'd rather just wax (maybe I'm feeling lazy).
What do you think? Skip the polish?
Thanks
Polishes usually feed the paint. This isn't going to touch the paint.
My other cars were dark colors with clearcoat. Always looked great.
Am I wasting my time. I'd rather just wax (maybe I'm feeling lazy).
What do you think? Skip the polish?
Thanks
10-03-2012, 03:56 PM
#31
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2010 c300
I am not trying to say anyone is wrong or right but polishing paint does remove clear coat but it will remove about 1-2mic with a mild polish( can be alot more if the paint is in horrific condition). most mercedes I have polished are about 80-100mic thick. so in my op polishing the paint is ok just take care of the paint by keeping it washed and sealed. I always tell my clients paint correction (polishing) is up to them on how they want the paint to look!
Last edited by B-ron; 10-03-2012 at 04:25 PM.
10-03-2012, 06:31 PM
#32
I am not trying to say anyone is wrong or right but polishing paint does remove clear coat but it will remove about 1-2mic with a mild polish( can be alot more if the paint is in horrific condition). most mercedes I have polished are about 80-100mic thick. so in my op polishing the paint is ok just take care of the paint by keeping it washed and sealed. I always tell my clients paint correction (polishing) is up to them on how they want the paint to look!
Ok thank you. This helps. Some of the thoughts on this board make it seem like if you poslish this clear you will cause damage to the clear as if it will quickly undergo clearcoat failure.
I am ok with a few mic of clear to remove my surface mircomarring as this polishing would only be done once a year at most and if this clear is as hard as they say it is not even that.
I am interested in how the micromarring is removed by those who are opposed to polishing this paint? Do you just use fillers?
10-03-2012, 07:52 PM
#33
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Ok thank you. This helps. Some of the thoughts on this board make it seem like if you poslish this clear you will cause damage to the clear as if it will quickly undergo clearcoat failure.
I am ok with a few mic of clear to remove my surface mircomarring as this polishing would only be done once a year at most and if this clear is as hard as they say it is not even that.
I am interested in how the micromarring is removed by those who are opposed to polishing this paint? Do you just use fillers?
I am ok with a few mic of clear to remove my surface mircomarring as this polishing would only be done once a year at most and if this clear is as hard as they say it is not even that.
I am interested in how the micromarring is removed by those who are opposed to polishing this paint? Do you just use fillers?
glazes can be great to hide slight imperfection for the person who does not want to have there car polished because of fear of premature paint failure or they dont want to invest a lot of money into having some one perform a paint correction detail.
I usually set my clients up on a schedule. the first detail is paint correction and a paint sealant to get the car off on the right foot then every two weeks come back for a wash then after six months wash, clay and sealant then bring the car every two weeks for a wash once its been 12 months its time for some light correction and it starts all over again lol. the first correction is where you would be taking off the most clear and its not that much to be worried about the paint correction from here on out will have way less microns removed because the would have had proper washing therefore a lot less swirls and a lot less of a abrasive polish would be needed to eliminate the minor swirls.
I have had a few cars do this for the last three years and there has not been any issues at all! its all about the maintenance!
10-03-2012, 10:39 PM
#34
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In the simplest way, think of early (pre 2005) clear-coats as a soft plastic coating over the color base coat. Easy to scratch yes, but more malleable due to this property and therefore easier to polish out any scratches and small imperfections. (dust, small sags etc) And since the surface was soft and malleable, it would gloss-up better after repairs from machine buffing.
Now think of Nano-Particle-Ceramaic clear-coats as being almost as hard as glass. Try sanding a new piece of clean glass with 1600 wet/dry sandpaper. It takes greater effort because the surface is much harder than soft plastic, but once you do cut into it, it gets easier to sand. However, try polishing out these fine scratches on the glass until they're all gone! Almost impossible! The glass is much less malleable.
The same with these new super hard clear-coats. They are much less malleable and harder to deal with once scratched. Yes they are harder to scratch, yet once scratched, (even with small spider scratches from daily use) they are much harder to buff-out (if not impossible) to the same high gloss as when it left the factory. And these super hard clear-coats will show every little surface scratch and imperfection if roughly handled, (darker colors are worse). *Cleaner-waxes* can be very damaging to these new clear coats, which can be seen under proper lighting conditions.(Using a paint-light or under Mercury Vapor lights in a shopping mall parking lot for instance) Therefore, the least you touch it, the better.
The paint jobs on modern production cars are completely virgin. They are not tweaked, handled or buffed in any way at the factory for this reason.
Now think of Nano-Particle-Ceramaic clear-coats as being almost as hard as glass. Try sanding a new piece of clean glass with 1600 wet/dry sandpaper. It takes greater effort because the surface is much harder than soft plastic, but once you do cut into it, it gets easier to sand. However, try polishing out these fine scratches on the glass until they're all gone! Almost impossible! The glass is much less malleable.
The same with these new super hard clear-coats. They are much less malleable and harder to deal with once scratched. Yes they are harder to scratch, yet once scratched, (even with small spider scratches from daily use) they are much harder to buff-out (if not impossible) to the same high gloss as when it left the factory. And these super hard clear-coats will show every little surface scratch and imperfection if roughly handled, (darker colors are worse). *Cleaner-waxes* can be very damaging to these new clear coats, which can be seen under proper lighting conditions.(Using a paint-light or under Mercury Vapor lights in a shopping mall parking lot for instance) Therefore, the least you touch it, the better.
The paint jobs on modern production cars are completely virgin. They are not tweaked, handled or buffed in any way at the factory for this reason.
This is a Mercedes I did after the dealership polished it out for him and he was obviously not pleased.
also the majority of brand new cars from the dealer are far from virgin sadly. they are usually covered in buffer trails from the "detailers" at the dealership not knowing how to properly use a rotary plus getting the most aggressive compound they can fined and pairing it with a wool pad and going buffer crazy lol. the cars sit on the lot for long periods of time getting hosed off and wipped dry rubbing all the dust into the paint causing swirl maks and rids. I am not trying to get into a debate or anything its just what I have seen and personally had to fix when people bring me there car
Last edited by B-ron; 10-03-2012 at 11:03 PM.
10-04-2012, 05:40 AM
#35
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W203 slightly modified
There are several requirements.
* Use the paint kits
Nano paint sealer set A 000 986 01 72
MB Nano polish A 000 986 87 74
Paint cleaner A 001 986 37 71
Car Wash A 001 986 41 71 <<< shines like a mirror
Tar remover A 001 986 40 71
* Alternately use Synpol from Wurth.
http://www.synpol.it/catalogo/prodotti/synpol (really amazing wet look for the paint)
* General notes
In my humble experience you should use a paint thickness gauge to determine if the refinished area meets with the OEM standards. Have someone with the correct lights to inspect the paint.
Then have a skilled craftsman wet/dry the paint to remove the high points. I found Synpol forgives most if not all mistakes a person can make but it works best with the identical paint from factory which is usually Glasurit.
If you do a search for the word NANO in the Mercedes WIS you will find a few documents talking about how to manage your paint.
AR98.00-P-0150AK Overview of MB materials and how they are processed
AP98.00-P-9830A Application of nano paint sealer
GF98.00-P-2005-02A Color survey general: designo colors
AP98.30-P-8070A Cleaning and care of MB vehicle paintwork
SI98.00-P-0017A Service information: Matt paintwork
After-Sales Paint Technology Guide http://aftersales.mercedes-benz.com
There are also specific paint documents for specific chassis types. But those are not so interesting.
I think that would give you enough information to know where you are at.
* Use the paint kits
Nano paint sealer set A 000 986 01 72
MB Nano polish A 000 986 87 74
Paint cleaner A 001 986 37 71
Car Wash A 001 986 41 71 <<< shines like a mirror
Tar remover A 001 986 40 71
* Alternately use Synpol from Wurth.
http://www.synpol.it/catalogo/prodotti/synpol (really amazing wet look for the paint)
* General notes
In my humble experience you should use a paint thickness gauge to determine if the refinished area meets with the OEM standards. Have someone with the correct lights to inspect the paint.
Then have a skilled craftsman wet/dry the paint to remove the high points. I found Synpol forgives most if not all mistakes a person can make but it works best with the identical paint from factory which is usually Glasurit.
If you do a search for the word NANO in the Mercedes WIS you will find a few documents talking about how to manage your paint.
AR98.00-P-0150AK Overview of MB materials and how they are processed
AP98.00-P-9830A Application of nano paint sealer
GF98.00-P-2005-02A Color survey general: designo colors
AP98.30-P-8070A Cleaning and care of MB vehicle paintwork
SI98.00-P-0017A Service information: Matt paintwork
After-Sales Paint Technology Guide http://aftersales.mercedes-benz.com
There are also specific paint documents for specific chassis types. But those are not so interesting.
I think that would give you enough information to know where you are at.
Last edited by benzmodz; 10-04-2012 at 06:07 AM.
10-04-2012, 05:52 AM
#36
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W203 slightly modified
Be careful before making the assumption that you need all of these products in order to create a shine. These products are for paint finishers so they start with a product which removes imperfections in the paintwork such as dust and then they work up to the finished product.
02-06-2013, 05:36 PM
#38
I've discussed this before. The paint companies will tell you that the worst thing you can do is abrade the skin of the clearcoat with anything that has even the slightest amount of compound in it. I'm not about to start another argument here with the detailing industry.
What I do is have a non abrasive long term polymer sealant applied new. Then wash with compatible washing liquid. When I sold my last Benz after 8 years the paint was as new & water still pebbled on it. Not a single micro scratch. I've done the same with the CLK & it's paintwork is perfect.
What I do is have a non abrasive long term polymer sealant applied new. Then wash with compatible washing liquid. When I sold my last Benz after 8 years the paint was as new & water still pebbled on it. Not a single micro scratch. I've done the same with the CLK & it's paintwork is perfect.
