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Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)

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Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)

 
Old 10-16-2012, 07:54 PM
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'08 C300 MM Pano
Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)

This is for a 2008 C300 Sport

Need to top off the Power Steering Fluid, yet it seems like every place has a different brand/spec that one should follow:

Owner's Manual: Recomends "Chevron Texaco PSF 9109"


Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)-powersteeringfluid-ownersmanualpage478_zpsfdb8b3e2.jpg




Even though I could nit find that listed on any of the Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids (MB BeVo) Spec sheets.

This comes up in this forum as being listed in the owner's manual for the "S Class", here is the thread: Steering Vibration

But that thread also lists the Pentosin CHF 11S which comes up as a substitute.

Incidentally, the Pentosin CHF 11S also comes up as the recommended fluid to use by 2 dealerships in Southern California. I contacted one and by the time I got there, they were closed, so I called another and sure enough, that they use the Pentosin CHF 11S.

Also notable, they both swear it isn't the Chevron. Asked them why the manual lists the Chevron and they both put me on hold, went to ask their service advisers who stated it was the Pentosin CHF 11S.

The Pentosin CHF 11S, pictured below:



Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)-powersteeringfluidfront-side-rear-pentosinchf11s_zpsbea6bf0e.jpg




does actually come up under Spec Sheet 345.0 shown below:




Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)-spec3450_zpsd6481624.jpg




But am I mistaken in reading that "Power Steering: Model ... 204" as being our model W204?

And the last but certainly not least, how can you doubt our resident Expert, Mr. Glyn M Ruck who in post #9 of this thread: "Loud (ish) power steering - normal?" says its a Spec 236.3 and not to use anything else???


Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
Use only fluids meeting 236.3 spec

As follows:

PRODUCT NAME PRINCIPAL
Fuchs Titan PSF - Fuchs Petrolub AG, Mannheim/Deutschland
Gulf ATF MX - Gulf Oil International, London/ENGLAND
Liqui Moly LENKGETRIEBE- ÖL 3100 - Liqui Moly GmbH, Ulm/Deutschland
MB 236.3 Lenkgetriebeöl - P/N A 000 989 88 03 Daimler AG, Stuttgart/Deutschland
megol Lenkgetriebeoel Stability - Meguin GmbH & Co. KG Mineraloelwerke, Saarlouis/Deutschland

On no account use different fluids. The fluid is available in half litre bottles so cost is not an issue


I've already purchased the "Pentosin CHF 11S" but that doesn't mean I couldn't take it back if its the wrong fluid...

Needless to say, I am confused and yet I am desperate... Need to take the car to a body shop (yeah, a different story all together) and am hoping for a quick resolution sometime soon.

Please HELP!!!
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:33 AM
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IGB,

If it is not on the list you are taking an unnecessary risk.

To top up my W204 I bought a litre from the MB dealer ie Steering Gear Oil MB-A000989880310. for $38 . I siphon out the reservoir every 2 years & replace it.

Take the Pentosin back I reckon !!.

JC

Last edited by Carsy; 10-17-2012 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Carsy View Post
IGB,

If it is not on the list you are taking an unnecessary risk.

To top up my W204 I bought a litre from the MB dealer ie Steering Gear Oil MB-A000989880310. for $38 . I siphon out the reservoir every 2 years & replace it.

Take the Pentosin back I reckon !!.

JC
Thank you for your post Carsy.... And you can be sure I too am apprehensive about taking the extra risk. In fact, I should note that I purchased the Pentosin on Saturday and am yet to open it simply because I am hesitant on using it.

Additionally, I didn't really buy the Pentosin because it was a cheaper alternative, in fact the cost for that 1 Liter container is $35. And I bought it on the assurance of the MB parts dept... But Ii also can imagine how they'd wash their hands of the entire issue if it came down to any damage this fluid may cause to the PS pump.

Thirdly, and if I were to take the Pentosin back (and chances are I'll end up doing that), the likelihood that I will find any of the fluids listed in Glyn's list here in the United States is going to be slim to none. And I assume that if two dealers are using the Pentosin there is a good chance that others are as well ... but I am hopeful one dealer will surprise me when I call them in the morning.

I might be inclined to call MB-USA tomorrow to see what they have to say about all this... In the meantime, I am hoping Glyn would oblige me with a few minutes of his time to hopefully shed some light on the point I've listed below... And no, it is not that I am questioning his judgement or opinion, but just so that I can understand, and actually, if my manual lists the Chevron/Texaco PSF 9109 then chances are others will as well and so this will be there for those looking for the same answer as me:
  • Any idea why the manual lists the Chevron Texaco PSF 9109?
  • Is that compatible with the Pentosin CHF 11S?
  • Is my analogy correct about the Spec 345.0 sheet I posted in my original post (that it applies to the W204 model)?
  • And why is your list (which I quoted from another thread) completely different from -for example- the owner's manual?

Thank you in advance, Glyn... If you see this!

And again, thank you for your input Carsy...
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by IGB View Post
Thank you for your post Carsy.... And you can be sure I too am apprehensive about taking the extra risk. In fact, I should note that I purchased the Pentosin on Saturday and am yet to open it simply because I am hesitant on using it.

Additionally, I didn't really buy the Pentosin because it was a cheaper alternative, in fact the cost for that 1 Liter container is $35. And I bought it on the assurance of the MB parts dept... But Ii also can imagine how they'd wash their hands of the entire issue if it came down to any damage this fluid may cause to the PS pump.

Thirdly, and if I were to take the Pentosin back (and chances are I'll end up doing that), the likelihood that I will find any of the fluids listed in Glyn's list here in the United States is going to be slim to none. And I assume that if two dealers are using the Pentosin there is a good chance that others are as well ... but I am hopeful one dealer will surprise me when I call them in the morning.

I might be inclined to call MB-USA tomorrow to see what they have to say about all this... In the meantime, I am hoping Glyn would oblige me with a few minutes of his time to hopefully shed some light on the point I've listed below... And no, it is not that I am questioning his judgement or opinion, but just so that I can understand, and actually, if my manual lists the Chevron/Texaco PSF 9109 then chances are others will as well and so this will be there for those looking for the same answer as me:
  • Any idea why the manual lists the Chevron Texaco PSF 9109?
  • Is that compatible with the Pentosin CHF 11S?
  • Is my analogy correct about the Spec 345.0 sheet I posted in my original post (that it applies to the W204 model)?
  • And why is your list (which I quoted from another thread) completely different from -for example- the owner's manual?

Thank you in advance, Glyn... If you see this!

And again, thank you for your input Carsy...

Hello IGB,

I had a look through my disorganised files & found the attachment below. Take a look at page 19 . You look to be perfectly OK using the Penosin.Its is definitely listed for W204s.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Mercedes oils info.pdf (151.0 KB, 3096 views)
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Carsy View Post
Hello IGB,

I had a look through my disorganised files & found the attachment below. Take a look at page 19 . You look to be perfectly OK using the Penosin.Its is definitely listed for W204s.
Carsy, I highly appreciate your efforts, coming back to post the information you provided. Thank you so very much.



I can also provide for another route by which we can confirm this is indeed valid. Not really through a MB conformation but it is still another indication as well!

If you go to the Liqui Moly U.S. Website (you would have to "Choose Country from the top right corner);

Then click on "Oil Guide"

Then Choose Category (Car) then select your vehicle

And it'll give you all the fluid/oil specs for that vehicle....

Click on Power Steering
Click on Zentralhydrauliköl

And so this is the Fluid it is recommending:

Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)-liquimolyzentralhydraulikoumll_zps09cdb1dd.jpg

If you click on " Technical Data Sheet to article 1127 (EN)"

And scroll to midway down page 1 of that document, you'll see that this fluid complies with MB Spec 345.0 ...

Which also brings us back to the "Pentosin CHF 11S Hydraulic Fluid" (see below):

Power Steering Fluid (Which to use)-spec3450_zpsd6481624.jpg






I also emailed MB-USA and will update this thread with the content of their reply as soon as I receive it!
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:40 PM
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Just as an aside , in my last car , a Peugeot 405 diesel had a good sized magnet attached to the level dip stick by the manufacturer. There was always a good amount of very fine material to clean off it every 12 months .Over the 18 years I never had any trouble with the power steering.

I have attached a magnet to my W 204's dip stick as a precaution but only a small amount of ferous material adheres to it but enough to show black marks on a white rag.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:45 PM
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The Pentosin fluid is fine & approved. The Texaco fluid is sold in Europe & used to be packed under a Benz part number for them hence no listing. I have no idea of availability in the US.

Use the Pentosin - good product.

The old spec is now obsolete & for MB Trac etc only now.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Carsy View Post
Just as an aside , in my last car , a Peugeot 405 diesel had a good sized magnet attached to the level dip stick by the manufacturer. There was always a good amount of very fine material to clean off it every 12 months .Over the 18 years I never had any trouble with the power steering.

I have attached a magnet to my W 204's dip stick as a precaution but only a small amount of ferous material adheres to it but enough to show black marks on a white rag.
This is on the power steering fluid dip stick?

Interesting idea... I'd be freaked out that the fluid will eat up the adhesive, and then the magnet will fall off into the reservoir and end up getting chewed up by the pump, and ruining the pump in return!

I do know that you can get engine oil drain plugs that are magnetized...
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
The Pentosin fluid is fine & approved. The Texaco fluid is sold in Europe & used to be packed under a Benz part number for them hence no listing. I have no idea of availability in the US.

Use the Pentosin - good product.

The old spec is now obsolete & for MB Trac etc only now.
Thank you very much Glyn... I am no longer anxious to get a reply from MB-USA...

This was the answer I was hoping for... (Not to take anything away from Carsy as his replies were extremely helpful as well).

Thank you both!
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IGB View Post
This is on the power steering fluid dip stick?

Interesting idea... I'd be freaked out that the fluid will eat up the adhesive, and then the magnet will fall off into the reservoir and end up getting chewed up by the pump, and ruining the pump in return!

I do know that you can get engine oil drain plugs that are magnetized...
The magnets have holes in the centre & are wired on throught a drilled hole in the dip stick ( level indicator !).

I do believe there is a filter in the line before the pump.

On the Peugeot they were held on by very strong plastic clips.
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Old 10-26-2012, 06:19 PM
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As I mentioned above, I had sent an inquiry to MB-USA asking for clarification on the recommendation in the owner's manual versus what they had issued through other publications. This is what I received in response:

Dear Mr. IGB;
Thank you for contacting Mercedes-Benz USA.

We have received your request for information regarding recommended Power Steering Fluid for your 2008 Mercedes-Benz C300.

The recommended fluids include Chevron Texaco PSF 9109, MB 345.0 hydraulic fluid A 001 989 24 03, or Pentosin CHF 11 S Hydraulic Fluid.

We hope you find this information useful.

All the best,
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC


Thanks again to Carsy and Glyn for their posts.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:33 PM
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Only a pleasure!
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:57 PM
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Old 11-25-2016, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
The Pentosin fluid is fine & approved. The Texaco fluid is sold in Europe & used to be packed under a Benz part number for them hence no listing. I have no idea of availability in the US.

Use the Pentosin - good product.

The old spec is now obsolete & for MB Trac etc only now.
Hello Glyn, I have a 2010 c300 Lux 4Matic, 96k miles. What MB Spec do you feel or know is factory filled? My production date is 06/2009. Does MB Fac fill mb 236 Spec or the pentosin 345 Spec??

I ask because I neeed to add some PSF fluid to the reservoir and don't want to mix different Spec fluid.

TIA
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by IGB View Post
As I mentioned above, I had sent an inquiry to MB-USA asking for clarification on the recommendation in the owner's manual versus what they had issued through other publications. This is what I received in response:

Dear Mr. IGB;
Thank you for contacting Mercedes-Benz USA.

We have received your request for information regarding recommended Power Steering Fluid for your 2008 Mercedes-Benz C300.

The recommended fluids include Chevron Texaco PSF 9109, MB 345.0 hydraulic fluid A 001 989 24 03, or Pentosin CHF 11 S Hydraulic Fluid.

We hope you find this information useful.

All the best,
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC


Thanks again to Carsy and Glyn for their posts.

Do you feel the factory fill Spec is MB 345?? If you see my reply up above, you'll know where I am coming from. Curious if PSF-9109 is factory fill and/or MB 236.x or MB 345 Spec. I see older MB'S used the 236 Spec up to 2009(give or take the year). So with my 2010 built on 6/2009 was the older Spec used. Not sure if service guide says to flush PSF since MB considers it fill for life correct??
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Old 12-01-2016, 10:22 PM
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Was able to lookup specs in ALLDATA and it does list MB 236.3 for PSF Gear Oil and the 345 spec for Hydraulic. Didn't realize at first, Gear and Hydraulic oil/fluid is different.

Question for me is, what the F comes in a 10/2009 production C300 W204?

I am assuming PSF Gear Oil Spec 236.3 NOT Hydraulic oil 345.

If anyone has opinions, the color of the resevoir fluid has a dull brownish green/yellow honeyed hue to it.
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Old 11-02-2017, 03:41 PM
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It's pretty clear, CHF at below -25f

<<<I had to edit my incorrect post>>

Last edited by Audi Junkie; 10-22-2018 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 11-02-2017, 03:47 PM
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"Hydraulic fluid" the 345 spec is for the convert top, people.

236 is ATF, look at the approved products....they are Euro ATFs...some also label "PSF"!MB 236.3 Servolenkungsöl A 000 989 88 03Daimler AG, Stuttgart/DeutschlandFuchs PENTOSIN PSFFuchs Petrolub AG, Mannheim/DeutschlandGONHER ATF DIID M 6.3Lubricantes de América, S.A. de C.V., SANTA CATARINA/MEXICOGulf ATF MXGulf Oil International, London/ENGLANDLIQUI MOLY LENKGETRIEBE- ÖL 3100Liqui Moly GmbH, Ulm/DeutschlandLUBRAL ATF DIID M 6.3Lubricantes de América, S.A. de C.V., SANTA CATARINA/MEXICOmegol Lenkgetriebeoel StabilityMeguin GmbH & Co. KG Mineraloelwerke, Saarlouis/DeutschlandPANOLIN ATF MULTIPANOLIN AG, MADETSWIL/SchweizPETRONAS ATF FLUID 236.3PETRONAS LUBRICANTS INTERNATIONAL, VILLASTELLONE (Torino)/ITALYSinopec Greatwall ATF-B3
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:33 PM
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Changing fluid won't stop the leak. Using the wrong fluid can cause other issues, like overloading the pump. That connection uses a "banjo bolt" and it seals with a metal washer. There are different part numbers based on VIN. It could also be a broken bolt.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:40 PM
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Pentosin CHF 11S

I just flushed mine with Pentosin CHF 11S. It is listed as an approve fluid for MB W204. Weirdly enough, I also drive a BMW M3 and that uses the CHF 11S also.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:23 AM
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What a mess. My 2007 had ATF in the reservoir, so I was confused. CHF 11S and ATF are definitely NOT compatible The 263 is ATF, but is only for older cars. Where now, ATF is no longer recommended, rather a "premium" PSF that's not actually CHF. ATF is fine for most purposes in them, especially flushing.

CHF is definitely for newer than 1997ish cars. There are a few other "compatible" fluids, but don't take a chance if you are unsure. There should be a reference to CHF 11S or 202 in the spec sheet.

Again, don't mix. I have to flush mine out.
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:00 PM
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CHF 11S is certified against MB 345.0

The CHF 202 is not.

The CHF 11S is certified for use in many different Euro cars - - nothing new there. FWIW, I see these products at Advance Auto Parts and Autozone.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:46 PM
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Yes, VW and Audi upgraded to 202 with it's touch of anti-foaming added. Nobody ever uses it though, not even the dealership. I happened to have most of a can from my CLK Cabrio top motor, so I'll use it when I flush the PS back to CHF.

Most of the reason I endorse 202 is because it's improved over 11S, no matter if it was tested against 345 or not. It's also "compatible", as per Pentosin. If someone was stuck at the store with only 202, use it. If CHF 7 is all you have, you are sol.

I ordered some Ravenol SSF.

Last edited by Audi Junkie; 10-22-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:16 PM
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Legit products like the Ravenol cover both / all relevant specs...

"VW/Audi TL 52 146 00, CHF 11S, CHF 202, Mercedes-Benz 343.0, 344.0, 345.0....etc etc"

Just like the 202 covers the CHF11S specs, because it exceeds them.

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Old 10-22-2018, 08:37 PM
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Useful resource:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-1556-po...ing-fluid.aspx

Even a cheap £8.95 product like Granville makes spec:

https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/gran...ulic_Fluid.pdf

"Recommended for", to be fair...
Recommended for use by Granville for the following manufacturer's specifications ISO: 7308 BMW: 81.22.9.407.758 MAN: M3289 & 3623/93 CHF11S DIN: 51524T2 MB: 345.00 VW: G002 000A2, VW TL 52146.00 & G004 000 Opel: B-040-0070 Porsche: 000.043.203.33

I'd further assert that all those specs are the same, and can cross-reference.

Here's the important part...

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-87379-f...lic-fluid.aspx

"Fuchs Pentosin CHF 202 is miscible with CHF 11S, but due to the additives employed not miscible with older formulations like CHF 7.1 or other hydraulic oils."

"PENTOSIN CHF 11S is suitable for blending with CHF 202; however, due to its additives, it cannot be blended with older formulas, such as CHF 7.1 or other hydraulics oils."

https://cdn.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/pent...in_CHF_11S.pdf

It further explains the incompatibility with other / older PSF is due to "additives" but I believe it's the PAO base oil, which has notoriously poor solubility.
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