Ecu in toronto
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 192
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From: GTA (Toronto)
2008 c230
Hey, I might be interested also. I have a 2009 C230 2.5 4Matic also.
- I'm going to buy another 2 years of extended warranty, and want to know how does this effect the warranty also?
- Any word on what's the group-buy price for this ECU flash/tune?
- Finally, does this tune help the laggy transmission shift in any way to improve it (and I don't mean 0-60 which isn't really that bad on the C230 2.5. I mean the the super slow downshift for rolling acceleration after braking that is horrible on this car. You brake from 140 down to 90 and it's still in 7th gear trying to accelerate like snails pace).
Thanks for any info.
- I'm going to buy another 2 years of extended warranty, and want to know how does this effect the warranty also?
- Any word on what's the group-buy price for this ECU flash/tune?
- Finally, does this tune help the laggy transmission shift in any way to improve it (and I don't mean 0-60 which isn't really that bad on the C230 2.5. I mean the the super slow downshift for rolling acceleration after braking that is horrible on this car. You brake from 140 down to 90 and it's still in 7th gear trying to accelerate like snails pace).
Thanks for any info.
As for the warrenty it will not affect it. I as well have an extended warrenty.
I had my 230 2.5 done and it is a world of difference. The main reason for me was lag and low tourque. Feels stronger than a 300. Exact specs I'm not sure. I'm hoping to dyno soon. Now also the difference between mine and yours is mine is standard. I think it's well worth the money since that's the only performance mod available for the 230
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,128
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Only way to get a substantial performance improvement (0 to 60 time) is to tackle the REAL problem, the crappy 7G-tronic, which is universally lambasted in the auto press as LAME. The high-5-second 0 to 60 times of the 2010 328i 3.0L vs. the 2010 C300 which has MORE HP and MORE torque than the BMW, is entirely due to the 7G. Compare the recently tested 7.6 sec. 0 to 60 time of the C250 vs. the 2.0L BMW 328i's 6.2 secs. All in the horrible 7G performance.
Here are two links, about the 7G illness and a solution of replacing the valve bodies and upgrade for the TCU, for a huge performance increase without touching the ECU. Developed for the C63, it can be performed on all 7G W204 models:
http://luxurycarmagazine.com/a-solut...onic-troubles/
http://www.weistec.com/7229vb.html
Here are two links, about the 7G illness and a solution of replacing the valve bodies and upgrade for the TCU, for a huge performance increase without touching the ECU. Developed for the C63, it can be performed on all 7G W204 models:
http://luxurycarmagazine.com/a-solut...onic-troubles/
http://www.weistec.com/7229vb.html
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
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79 300SEL
I'm just wondering if these maps address the transmission programming in anyway to imporve the slow shifts.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
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79 300SEL
Unfortunately the group but is done. Last week, was the last opportunity to get it. Mike from eurocharged is gone to Japan for a month. When he gets back I'm sure you can talk to him and see what he can do for pricing.
As for the warrenty it will not affect it. I as well have an extended warrenty.
I had my 230 2.5 done and it is a world of difference. The main reason for me was lag and low tourque. Feels stronger than a 300. Exact specs I'm not sure. I'm hoping to dyno soon. Now also the difference between mine and yours is mine is standard. I think it's well worth the money since that's the only performance mod available for the 230
As for the warrenty it will not affect it. I as well have an extended warrenty.
I had my 230 2.5 done and it is a world of difference. The main reason for me was lag and low tourque. Feels stronger than a 300. Exact specs I'm not sure. I'm hoping to dyno soon. Now also the difference between mine and yours is mine is standard. I think it's well worth the money since that's the only performance mod available for the 230
Yeah i would definitely like to see what the difference with this will be and I'm quite optimistic (I've done ECU reflash on my motorcycles with very positive imporvements).
I've check with Mike when he gets back and see if he would honour group buy late request for the pricing. If not maybe see if he would be interested in a 2nd group buy.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
79 300SEL
Only way to get a substantial performance improvement (0 to 60 time) is to tackle the REAL problem, the crappy 7G-tronic, which is universally lambasted in the auto press as LAME. The high-5-second 0 to 60 times of the 2010 328i 3.0L vs. the 2010 C300 which has MORE HP and MORE torque than the BMW, is entirely due to the 7G. Compare the recently tested 7.6 sec. 0 to 60 time of the C250 vs. the 2.0L BMW 328i's 6.2 secs. All in the horrible 7G performance.
Here are two links, about the 7G illness and a solution of replacing the valve bodies and upgrade for the TCU, for a huge performance increase without touching the ECU. Developed for the C63, it can be performed on all 7G W204 models:
http://luxurycarmagazine.com/a-solut...onic-troubles/
http://www.weistec.com/7229vb.html
Here are two links, about the 7G illness and a solution of replacing the valve bodies and upgrade for the TCU, for a huge performance increase without touching the ECU. Developed for the C63, it can be performed on all 7G W204 models:
http://luxurycarmagazine.com/a-solut...onic-troubles/
http://www.weistec.com/7229vb.html
Good reading. This is a very expensive mod though, and I'm pretty sure will void any warranty or good faith with the dealer.
I wonder if this is the same as the suggested free dealer software upgrade to get when doing B service and flushing the 7G ?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,128
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
@serialize: Software update for the 7G-Tronic (Pre-mid 2010 MY) is free, just ask. The 7G works at first fabulously as the TCU flash erases the stupid Adaptive Learning, which starts to degenerate performance, unfortunately, at the very first traffic light, stop sign or city traffic, and in about 2 hours the 7G is back to being a garden slug. The Weistec permanently lobotomizes the Adaptive Learning, it is Track Day 24/7.
@xjaymzzx: Some tuners claim that their ECU tune stays in the flash memory, and does not void the warranty, frankly I do not know. The 7G Weistec solution is invasive and would of course void the transmission warranty. Since my warranty ends in 9 months, the 7G modification will be the first done, as the several-second lag in downshifts is a huge SAFETY issue, most driving in the region is two-lane twisty mountain roads where passing is the norm. As BMW proves with the huge performance leap in 0 to 60 times despite about 10% less HP and torque, the C300 has more than adequate power, just that the 7G destroys delivery through poor programming, disk slippage and that horribly stupid Adaptive Learning scheme.
@xjaymzzx: Some tuners claim that their ECU tune stays in the flash memory, and does not void the warranty, frankly I do not know. The 7G Weistec solution is invasive and would of course void the transmission warranty. Since my warranty ends in 9 months, the 7G modification will be the first done, as the several-second lag in downshifts is a huge SAFETY issue, most driving in the region is two-lane twisty mountain roads where passing is the norm. As BMW proves with the huge performance leap in 0 to 60 times despite about 10% less HP and torque, the C300 has more than adequate power, just that the 7G destroys delivery through poor programming, disk slippage and that horribly stupid Adaptive Learning scheme.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
79 300SEL
@serialize: Software update for the 7G-Tronic (Pre-mid 2010 MY) is free, just ask. The 7G works at first fabulously as the TCU flash erases the stupid Adaptive Learning, which starts to degenerate performance, unfortunately, at the very first traffic light, stop sign or city traffic, and in about 2 hours the 7G is back to being a garden slug. The Weistec permanently lobotomizes the Adaptive Learning, it is Track Day 24/7.
@xjaymzzx: Some tuners claim that their ECU tune stays in the flash memory, and does not void the warranty, frankly I do not know. The 7G Weistec solution is invasive and would of course void the transmission warranty. Since my warranty ends in 9 months, the 7G modification will be the first done, as the several-second lag in downshifts is a huge SAFETY issue, most driving in the region is two-lane twisty mountain roads where passing is the norm. As BMW proves with the huge performance leap in 0 to 60 times despite about 10% less HP and torque, the C300 has more than adequate power, just that the 7G destroys delivery through poor programming, disk slippage and that horribly stupid Adaptive Learning scheme.
@xjaymzzx: Some tuners claim that their ECU tune stays in the flash memory, and does not void the warranty, frankly I do not know. The 7G Weistec solution is invasive and would of course void the transmission warranty. Since my warranty ends in 9 months, the 7G modification will be the first done, as the several-second lag in downshifts is a huge SAFETY issue, most driving in the region is two-lane twisty mountain roads where passing is the norm. As BMW proves with the huge performance leap in 0 to 60 times despite about 10% less HP and torque, the C300 has more than adequate power, just that the 7G destroys delivery through poor programming, disk slippage and that horribly stupid Adaptive Learning scheme.
Lot's to think about for me. I am renewing my extended warranty for another 2 years as of this month so I suppose I have plenty of time to decide and won't rush into anything for the time being because I do not want to compromise the warranty in any way (parts for these cars cost WAY too much to pay out of pocket without warranty).
I beleive I will reserch more on the Weistec as this sounds like the solution I'm most interested in, to eliminate the crappy transmission laggy-ness. Hosepower gain from the fuel map is also something I would like to get and might consider both, but my primary concern is the delay and responsiveness. Putting it into prespective as a permanent solution it makes sense to fork over the big bucks but to have a permanent solution.
Thanks again for all in the info and replies everyone. Lot's to think about now.
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
c300 sport rwd DHP
Only way to get a substantial performance improvement (0 to 60 time) is to tackle the REAL problem, the crappy 7G-tronic, which is universally lambasted in the auto press as LAME. The high-5-second 0 to 60 times of the 2010 328i 3.0L vs. the 2010 C300 which has MORE HP and MORE torque than the BMW, is entirely due to the 7G. Compare the recently tested 7.6 sec. 0 to 60 time of the C250 vs. the 2.0L BMW 328i's 6.2 secs. All in the horrible 7G performance.
Here are two links, about the 7G illness and a solution of replacing the valve bodies and upgrade for the TCU, for a huge performance increase without touching the ECU. Developed for the C63, it can be performed on all 7G W204 models:
http://luxurycarmagazine.com/a-solut...onic-troubles/
http://www.weistec.com/7229vb.html
Here are two links, about the 7G illness and a solution of replacing the valve bodies and upgrade for the TCU, for a huge performance increase without touching the ECU. Developed for the C63, it can be performed on all 7G W204 models:
http://luxurycarmagazine.com/a-solut...onic-troubles/
http://www.weistec.com/7229vb.html
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 19
From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Remapping the accelerator with a Sprintbooster or other clip-on does not void the warranty, so if "throttle response" is desired, this is one avenue. However the throttle can be reset in the W204, personally I prefer to depress the accelerator pedal only half-way, the computer then resets this position as full throttle. Here is a thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-tcu-help.html
However, this does NOT affect 7G performance much. This was worsened with the 2011 MY because the kickdown switch was eliminated !!! The Delta (change in position of the accelerator) is only one of 7 inputs to the TCU, so while marginally improving the 7G's "response", the main problems are 1) having the 7G make up its mind that a shift needs to be performed and 2) the actual valve and clutch mechanism topology is stupid. Here is another thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...nsmission.html
There is another thread on the K (clutch) and B (brake) plate topology, which clearly explains symptoms like 3rd to 4th gear jerkiness, the entire logic of the 7G defies explanation. BMW, Audi and even Hyundai and Ford have better topologies, which results in quicker and more accurate shifts.
Dual-clutch transmissions effectively eliminate this problem, look to the CLA250 or next W205 to MBs solution to the terrible 7G design flaws.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-tcu-help.html
However, this does NOT affect 7G performance much. This was worsened with the 2011 MY because the kickdown switch was eliminated !!! The Delta (change in position of the accelerator) is only one of 7 inputs to the TCU, so while marginally improving the 7G's "response", the main problems are 1) having the 7G make up its mind that a shift needs to be performed and 2) the actual valve and clutch mechanism topology is stupid. Here is another thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...nsmission.html
There is another thread on the K (clutch) and B (brake) plate topology, which clearly explains symptoms like 3rd to 4th gear jerkiness, the entire logic of the 7G defies explanation. BMW, Audi and even Hyundai and Ford have better topologies, which results in quicker and more accurate shifts.
Dual-clutch transmissions effectively eliminate this problem, look to the CLA250 or next W205 to MBs solution to the terrible 7G design flaws.
Last edited by Acapulco Bill; Apr 30, 2013 at 06:04 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 19
From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
@jimmy k: suggest you contact your nearest Weistec authorized shop and ask for some testimonials. Many C63's have been done as the mod prevents premature transmission failure by properly increasing the pressure available to the K and B plates.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
c300 sport rwd DHP
I will contact them for sure. Im in Canada so searching for someone close to home, there is a shop that deals with Kleemann, I emailed them as well to see what they think, I think the mod is worth it, if it solves the problem
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 19
From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Here is a MB graphic which shows the inherent malady of the 7G. BMW, Audi and Dual-clutch transmissions have a "ladder" configuration, which alternate between an active Clutch and Brake (planetary gear rotation or impediment), which causes precise and rapid shifts, not sequencing 3 consecutive shifts through braking and accelerating successive planetary gear sets which is inherently SLOW by its engineering design.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 19
From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
More nerdy 7G stuff
Here are three more pages, the first is the location of the TCU (named FTC for Full transmission control unit) labeled Y3/Bn4 plus sensors for input, output and load rotation of the gear sets.
The second is the TCU's algorithm for determine IF a shift should be performed, also taking into consideration the YAW unit signals, combined with -
The third graphic, which is all the engine control information bus (CAN) which controls the ECU, of which part is fed into the TCU, and you wonder why it takes SO long to make a shift?
May be off-thread, but if we are talking about tuning the ECU for "performance", it is important to understand why, or more importantly why NOT, an ECU tune will benefit the W204 enthusiast.
The second is the TCU's algorithm for determine IF a shift should be performed, also taking into consideration the YAW unit signals, combined with -
The third graphic, which is all the engine control information bus (CAN) which controls the ECU, of which part is fed into the TCU, and you wonder why it takes SO long to make a shift?
May be off-thread, but if we are talking about tuning the ECU for "performance", it is important to understand why, or more importantly why NOT, an ECU tune will benefit the W204 enthusiast.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
c300 sport rwd DHP
Here are three more pages, the first is the location of the TCU (named FTC for Full transmission control unit) labeled Y3/Bn4 plus sensors for input, output and load rotation of the gear sets.
The second is the TCU's algorithm for determine IF a shift should be performed, also taking into consideration the YAW unit signals, combined with -
The third graphic, which is all the engine control information bus (CAN) which controls the ECU, of which part is fed into the TCU, and you wonder why it takes SO long to make a shift?
May be off-thread, but if we are talking about tuning the ECU for "performance", it is important to understand why, or more importantly why NOT, an ECU tune will benefit the W204 enthusiast.
The second is the TCU's algorithm for determine IF a shift should be performed, also taking into consideration the YAW unit signals, combined with -
The third graphic, which is all the engine control information bus (CAN) which controls the ECU, of which part is fed into the TCU, and you wonder why it takes SO long to make a shift?
May be off-thread, but if we are talking about tuning the ECU for "performance", it is important to understand why, or more importantly why NOT, an ECU tune will benefit the W204 enthusiast.
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 192
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From: GTA (Toronto)
2008 c230
Thanks for the reply 6Speed.
Yeah i would definitely like to see what the difference with this will be and I'm quite optimistic (I've done ECU reflash on my motorcycles with very positive imporvements).
I've check with Mike when he gets back and see if he would honour group buy late request for the pricing. If not maybe see if he would be interested in a 2nd group buy.
Yeah i would definitely like to see what the difference with this will be and I'm quite optimistic (I've done ECU reflash on my motorcycles with very positive imporvements).
I've check with Mike when he gets back and see if he would honour group buy late request for the pricing. If not maybe see if he would be interested in a 2nd group buy.
Just let him know you were talking to me.
acapulco-bill - nerdy info yes. But extremely interesting. You are full of knowledge.
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Joined: Apr 2012
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2013 C350 Coupe 4M
Looks like you're in the Toronto area like myself. Out of curiosity, who'd you reach out too?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
c300 sport rwd DHP
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
c300 sport rwd DHP
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 83
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From: Toronto, ON
2015 E250 Bluetec
but will I order from Forgestar again 
.
