Tjdehya

I have figured the new designs origin.
Someone found an auto designers drawings from the 80's before they had Navs.
They stole the designs and just stuck the ipad on top.

CisternaChyli

http://blog.caranddriver.com/you-sta...interior-tech/

nice article by Car and Driver. The interior looks to be solid; now we gotta see how the car drives. Fall 2014 for sales is a long time to wait though ...i wish they could have had the car on sale earlier....

Glyn M Ruck

Thanks SS & Alsyli. That explains the huge dealer inventories parked in the open in Dallas. Not so much when I lived in the Bay Area. In SA all dealer inventory is kept under roof in showrooms. The picky SA car buyer would never accept a car as new parked outdoors at the prices we pay.

See my dealership here from post #97:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...light=Glyn+toy

Glyn M Ruck

Interesting. In SA an equivalently spec'ed Avantgarde & Elegance are identically priced.

alsyli

For reasons that are completely unclear to me, MB is pushing the Sport model for the W204. To say that we have an 85% take rate in the US of the Sport model is misleading.... We aren't really offered anything else, and it's been that way since they started selling the W204 here. It's even hard to find a W204 in the LA area that doesn't have the rear spoiler (which, fortunately, is quite subtle on the W204.... It's far less so on the W212's).

Glyn M Ruck

East London obviously builds exactly what MBUSA asks them to. I suspect they have configured the US Sport model to maximise margin in a very competitive market. The US is inclined to want everything at a Walmart price. In other markets certain desirability factors trump price. Also in other markets they try and keep vehicles in slightly short supply so that they build to order & don't have inventory holding costs & cost of tied up capital while vitually putting a stop to discounting.

Sportstick

Last time I was at our local dealer (out in the suburbs), they had about a dozen C-Class cars in stock, 100% C300 4MATIC. Also had about half a dozen Sprinters!

In San Francisco, due to the costs of the city area, typical practice would be inventory storage in a nearby less congested/costly area.

Sportstick

The more this is being published, the more the reader comments below te articles are just skewering the screen. The trend seems quite negative. Wonder if they are already working on a new IP top pad to better integrate the screen.

Sportstick

Yes, they are different, but the relatively small $450 difference would not be expected to drive the lopsided ratio in an MB showroom here. I can tell you from other experiences with MBUSA that they are extremely concerned about the perception of becoming an "old" brand, especially in light of Audi marketing which is targeting the younger buyers in their shared segments. I can imagine that the emphasis on Sport was one part of their attempt to bring down the age appeal and try to collect some younger buyers. Their new CEO here made a statement that they intend to go after younger buyers with sportier design....note he used the word design, and not anything about the cars' actual performance/capability. But, sportier/younger design would not have, for an example, a stand-up hood ornament in most cases (although those with more traditional personal tastes may wish such an ornament and the associated overall vehicle decor even when they are still relatively young).

Clearly, they are boxing themselves in trying to get younger and "sportier", but not TOO much sportier....witness them thinking red seat belts is a significant move. It does seem a bit muddled, and they might do better to be who they are and offer the premium luxury and comfort they have historically been known for, let BMW go after performance oriented buyers, and Audi attend to young chic/avant garde design-seekers. Three German brands here could array themselves quite nicely if they arranged such a triad. One internal problem is that it just kills Marketing folks to think of themselves as the brand for "older" folks, despite that their money spends just as well! They worry that if Audi gets them young, and the experiences go well, that wave of future buyers will never arrive at the MB store.

If, however, MB learned to target psychographically instead of demographically, they could identify the buyers seeking what I described above at any physical age and carry them through life. That more sophisticated marketing does escape many planners who tend to think more narrowly in terms of age/gender/income. But, from earlier work, we were able to identify buyers of all ages who are not seeking avant garde design and are not interested in higher chassis/powertrain performance, but prioritize comfort, luxury, and refinement....that should be MB's target across the segments (and yes, I realize I am excluding myself, but I also realize I am already halfway out the door anyway once my current car has run its course.)

Sportstick

OK, you have your perception about sportiness and size/interior trim....I understand and respect our differences. It is quite subjective, after all.

As to the manual transmission, MB sold everyone they built for the US. Folks seeking them couldn't find them on dealer locator programs.

One needs to examine the business case for the certification as part of a planning decision. Assume the 5% is incremental volume, given the strong feelings most stick drivers have about that feature. Given an average C Class US sales recently of around 60,000 units, that represents about 3000 cars. With a reasonable margin for that price point of $7500, the total program margin bump would be $22.5 million. I know the costs of certification are far, far less than that from my prior career, even assuming another frontal hit for FMVSS 208 for another powertrain. One open issue is the facilitization of the new US plant with an additional powertrain combination. If they were up against the wall for powertrain complexity, that could take down much of the incremental margin, but that is an unknown in this discussion.

The "dying breed" argument is premature. While the trend is certainly downward, there is a niche of demand. If we applied the same logic to restaurants and what the next gen of buyers is consuming, we'd all be at McDonald's and the French Laundry would close shop. There must be something Cadillac, Audi, and BMW have found out about this segment which MB doesn't find useful, but that doesn't mean the buyers won't be around for several more product cycles. Even if you are right in theory, the timeline is too soon.

The GT3 is clearly more focused on speed, and no one argues that modern automatics can outperform a stick. In that car, the low volume and purpose for being led Porsche to the rational decision they made. But, pure speed is not the reason for purchasing a stick. Notice the 911 Carrera does have a standard stick where some of the buyers still want the fun and involvement of driver engagement, not just mashing a pedal and aiming while the car does more and more of the thinking for the driver. And, don't get me started on Distronic and Steering Assist!!!!

alsyli

Interesting take. It does make sense. But perhaps someone should whisper to the car makes that the "millenial" generation in the US doesn't want to buy a car at all! ::snort::

I also think it's that an older person will buy a car target toward the young. But the opposite is not necessarily true....

Richard2011

The new 2 series does look promising!

Sportstick

Your point is quite correct, and there is data to support it. However, a few more "enlightened" companies recognize that "older" and "younger" are states of mind and not necessarily of physical age. Driving enthusiasts of 40 years apart have more in common in their decision-making than do two 20 year-olds with very different personal desires. Values and attitudes do not shift much as one goes through life, although the different life stages do push us toward different segments to address different needs. For example, driving enthusiasts gravitated to the Honda Odyssey if/when they need a minivan, as it is clearly the most entertaining to drive. Conversely, even young buyers who seek comfort and luxury and have low interest in higher performance could be a prime target for MB if they developed such a prospect strategy. It does create a challenge for media buying, however, as that industry is still stuck in measuring only demographics, last I looked.

Glyn M Ruck

I don't think that is an accurate assessment. From years in market research the critics always speak up where those that praise or like stand back. If you surveyed the SA Benz buyer which is more European in taste the detractors would be in the minority.

Sportstick

The assessment was of those who are responding to the articles since the MB photos were released. A different sample composition, such as owners and/or intenders may or may not yield different results. As you note, the potential for different results by geographical market also exists. Without doing the research (which is also my field), I cannot speculate on any of those results.

It is interesting to note that the same critics who responded to the screen at the end of online articles are also generally praising the rest of the interior, predominantly reserving their negative comments for the screen. Having sat through a few hundred focus groups over many years, when a product is generally praised, but one specific detail repeatedly stands out as negative, there is usually a market problem which should be addressed. These same comments are occurring in CLA discussions on the Mercedes-Benz USA's proprietary owner's online community, which is comprised 100% of invited owners, but is also a sample with its own inherent biases.

Glyn M Ruck

In SA & Asia where Benz outsells the other two by a substantial margin Benz is very careful not to alienate their traditional buyer who seeks refinement ~ with or without hood star. They leave AMG division to look after the Sports minded. SA is a large market for AMG. Of course the new A Class & CLA is being punted to the younger buyer. B Class to the young family man as a people carrier with the right badge.

BMW is considered the yuppy brand & a little fragile & troublesome by most.

Audi gets a really hard knock that it simply does not deserve. Their products today are good & their cabins excellent ~ the cars are beautifully built. Their over conservative evolutionary styling kills them. They are not an aspirational brand & their sales really suck.

Both Audi & BMW have resale value problems other than 3 Series.

Glyn M Ruck

My experience of 40 years of focus groups is that genuine & sincere praise is difficult to extract while criticism comes naturally. It is a human trait.

In Asia you will sometimes get the reverse. Insincere praise & zero criticism for fear of offending. Quite a different dynamic due to loss of face issues, culture & mild manners etc.

I also believe that one should recognise that US taste varies vastly from European taste. Europeans prefer more organic design over US splash & sharp edges. I think that Nissan were doing the right thing at one time where they made a Maxima, Altima etc. for the US market & sold the duck-billed models in ROW.

US focus groups messed up the nose of the new Jag F Type in the eyes of many as the original & very attractive design reminded Americans of the Ford Taurus. Nobody in ROW knows what a Ford Taurus is. Jag need the car to be a success in the US so they changed it for the worst.

Look what Chris Bangle did to BMW as an example. They are still trying to completely rid themselves of that awful influence.

Sportstick

You've got me by one decade, but it seems we're both well experienced, then. However, we've had different experiences. I've witnessed the full range of responses from sincere praise to sincere dismay in reasonable and proportional frequencies in response to product proposals. Depending on the skill of the moderator, it need not be extracted but flows when the environment is conducive to participation.

There are certainly regional preferences in design. I am sorry to read that the next Sonata will be pulled back from its swoopier design to achieve more success back in Korea, as they only want to design one set of body panels. And, yes, the Bangle bungle was an unfortunate detour worthy of amnesia ASAP.

I can't agree that US focus groups had any effect on the Jag. The results of the groups are simply information. It is up to the brilliant minds at the helms of the various companies to make smart decisions based on the research and other informational inputs. In my experience, the best results occur when the research is neither ignored, but also not the only basis of the decision. If the Jag was modified for the business purpose you stated, they hopefully did the analysis of the volume and profit implications (including the research results as one factor) and then took the rational steps.

Glyn M Ruck

Has your experience been US centric or global?

CisternaChyli

come down to LA, My dad and I picked up his C250 at House of Imports in Buena Park; they had at least 100 C classes on the lot...same goes for Keyes Mercedes in Van Nuys; huge inventory of C classes.

CisternaChyli

Car and Driver seemed to like it though. Personally i found it fine in the CLA, it didnt look odd or out of place. I think it will look even better in the new C because it seems to be more integrated with the flow of the dash, rather than just being "stuck on".

Sportstick

Global automotive clients/employers over the years, but all for US sales locale.

Sportstick

Every population has a distribution. The notable occurrence was the unusual frequency of comments focused on this one item among the commentators.

Glyn M Ruck

Yeah, mine was global for nearly every market on the planet

Sportstick

You've certainly surpassed me there and it's clear it has given you an excellent, wide-ranging perspective!