Knightmare69

So a friend of mine found a tech that can flash through star our c180/200 to a German c250 map. Problem is the tech said since it's all in German he won't be able to set it to English but the German c250 map will overwrite everything including the engine performance. Aside from the language issue, does anyone know if we can run the 250 map without using the 250 hardware ie turbo and injectors?

Glyn M Ruck

Absolutely forget it. The M271 Evo Turbo map will be completely inappropriate for the old supercharged engines.

Knightmare69

No Glyn, our c180/200's are the m271 turbo engines. I'm not talking about the kompressor models.

Doa

what about the huge difference in tubo(s) between the 180, 200 and 250?

Knightmare69

No one has been able to confirm exactly what the differences are in turbo's between each model, some members such as myself and petej have been trying to find out. I've even gone as far as emailing every branch of IHI who have been no help at all even though they are the OEM manufacturer. Having said that, my original post did ask about whether or not anyone knew if I'd need to swap out hardware along with the flash.

Glyn M Ruck

Thanks for the clarification, thought you were talking the older M271. Still not appropriate. They have different turbos, wastegates & injectors. It's not all in the ECU. If it was all in the ECU you could flash a 180 to produce the same power as a 250. You can't.

See Kleeman example for all 3 engines.

http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/E...250CGI_M271EVO

Knightmare69

Thanks Glyn,

That's what we figured but since so far no one's been able to confirm the differences between the models we wondered if maybe it mostly a map difference.

vic viper

Just by checking the turbocharger, the 180 and the 200 have the same chargers but the 250 has a different one.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes ~ same as old Kompressor engines. 180 & 200 had same blower & the 230 a larger one.

Knightmare69

Well my friend went ahead and flashed it before I was able to show him this thread so we'll see what happens. He has noted the car pulls harder down low but not much else.

Doa

i hope he doesn't have the torque of the 250 now...

Glyn M Ruck

Hmm! It's going to try & overfuel. This should be interesting.

Knightmare69

DOA- why not? The c250 powerband is substantially better than that of the 180/200 on paper.

Glynn- so basically he'll be running super rich I assume? I have shown him this thread so he's going to try to flash back but till then he'll keep an eye out for potential disasters.

Doa

because all torque related parts are much stronger in the C250.
you'll decrease the life time to 50% or less

Knightmare69

I assume you're talking about drivetrain components etc? I really can't imagine MB changing that many parts between the 180/200 and 250, I would think as much interchangeability as possible to keep costs down.

Doa

i was hoping on that too but i was wrong
i replaced parts from my C200 with C250 parts to keep up with the increased torque as i have 550 now

Knightmare69

Wait what? Please share or pm your mod list, I'd love to know what your set up is, especially how you tuned the car as all my research has shown that the ECU is locked.

Doa

oh i think you get the wrong idea, its a CDI so 550 isn't that unusual.
the point is that mercedes doesn't share as much components between engine versions as you might think, seems like they save more money by using different (cheaper?)
PITA for mechanics

about the ECU locked, that is a first.
i let a tuning company chip/map (not with a pre-made image) whatever you want to call it and i also had some extra gain from the new exhaust

Knightmare69

Ah Ok, CDI does explain the number better lol. Well from all the places I've asked including our vendors, the ECU is locked (at least for the CGI models) and the only way currently to tune is invasive surgery. Maybe the CDI models are different

Glyn M Ruck

Yes ~ you will be running short of air for that MAP. The O2 sensors will pick up the ovefuelling & the ECU will try & back off the fuelling rate/trim.

You will effectively have one system fighting the other.

Knightmare69

Glynn, while on this matter, DOA mentioned c250 parts being stronger. I wondered, how would the car react to installing a c250 turbo on the 180/200? I assume the turbo would be underused but other than that there should be no detrimental effects no? Of course if the c250 turbo is larger than the 180/200 then lag would be increased.

Utahkompressor

I'm not sure if this is fake or not, but it seems like the performance difference between 200 and 250 is not obvious. At high speed, the 250 might pull a bit harder, but from stand still...almost identical. Both engines have the same compression ratio, so the guts(heads, pistons, valves etc.) should be the same. The difference probably lie in the turbo and tuning.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes ~ tuning, Turbo, Turbo controller, injectors.