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I'm watching this carefully. While I don't have an issue yet, I want to have a plan in place to deal with it should it occur. I have no intention of spending a thousand dollars on this.
If possible, could someone research the parts numbers for this job? I may just take a preemptive shot and replace it before it dumps me or my wife - especially if my grandson is in the backseat. |
I ordered one of the eBay motors. It's coming from China. Something makes me loath to replace a critical part with a Chinese knock-off. It costs $25. I can't imagine MB putting a $25 part here. I'm going over to the salvage yard to see if I can buy the whole unit. I want to see what it looks like. If I get anywhere I'll post some pix. Hey, Glynn Ruck, can you find us any info on this little electric motor?
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Originally Posted by JWH321
(Post 6690192)
I can't imagine MB putting a $25 part here.
Its sort of fear mongering in that the act of offering a replacement motor may tend to convince some that these motors are susceptible to failing... (and guess what? That, along with threads like this one (no pun or disrespect to anyone) have got you (as I am sure, others) believing that the motor needs to be replaced). All while there has been zero verified cases where it was determined that the motor failed. As far as I can tell, the whole idea of these motors being the cause for ESL failure was started by someone offering his ESL repair service on another forum... http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w204...l#post12343481 Notice that he starts his post by describing the "main problem" as being: "Main problem is that Mercedes put a $0.10 motor inside the steering lock, but it draws 3-5 amps, almost as the first generation W202/208/210 steering locks, but the size of the motor is 1/2 the size. You can see W204 ESL motor on the left and W210 motor on the right." And yet here we are debating that this motor that is made in China that costs $0.10, that is 1/2 the size another motor, from another ESL that belongs to another model car, should be replaced with an identical motor that is the same size, has the same appearance, sourced from the same China only that it is marked up 24900%.... But that is not it... At the end of the day, that same individual is not selling motors... Nope. He is selling emulators that mimic the communication signals that ESL makes with EIS and other electronic equipment in the car to identify the key and allow the starting cycle to continue. Which really takes us back to the fact the the motor, could be one of many possible causes to ESL failure.
Originally Posted by JWH321
(Post 6690192)
While I don't have an issue yet, I want to have a plan in place to deal with it should it occur. I have no intention of spending a thousand dollars on this.
In other cases, there may be a need to either re-code or reprogram replacement parts which can only be done by someone who has the proper equipment to do so... Good luck to all.... |
I'm not afraid of it, and if it fails, so be it. But I do want to understand this thing and if it is an issue I can deal with by myself, then that's what I would like to do.
My purpose in ordering a motor and trying to find one of these in a salvage yard is to be able to take it apart and understand it. I've not heard of this thing requiring recoding when it's installed. If that's the case, then I'm likely just wasting my time. But I will have an understanding of it. I don't care for the concept of an emulator. I intend to keep this car many more years (I've already had it for 8). I intend that it should continue to be supplied with OEM parts and service. But I also enjoy "wrenching" on it a bit, myself. It runs in the family - my great grandfather worked for Daimler. |
Originally Posted by JWH321
(Post 6690832)
I've not heard of this thing requiring recoding when it's installed.
However, if you look at the post I linked in my last post, the outfit selling the emulators claims there are cases when recoding is required. (And I guess it is understandable that he might tend to complicate matters a bit so as to give the impression that only someone with special equipment can repair ESL... Who knows). If you do decide to research this more, you will come across a few posts by a few service techs who also mention "coding" after ESL install. Although I am yet to be able to get any of them to elaborate. I think, that ESL re-coding/re-programming involves what is called a "blue key" (as opposed to an "orange key" for reprogramming EIS) but that is only required if one needs to reprogram an additional key.
Originally Posted by JWH321
(Post 6690832)
But I also enjoy "wrenching" on it a bit, myself.
Please keep us updated with what you find. |
Point taken. If I get anywhere I'll post. I just re-read my postings, I'm embarrassed. I am intrigued and I'm retired with too much time. I thought this might occupy my hands and mind.
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Originally Posted by JWH321
(Post 6691291)
I just re-read my postings, I'm embarrassed
Originally Posted by JWH321
(Post 6691291)
I am intrigued and I'm retired with too much time. I thought this might occupy my hands and mind.
For example, I would love to put together all the pieces to be able to experiment with and bench test a set up similar to this: That said, I admit that there may be times where I am too straight a shooter, and people might misinterpret my being so forward as an attempt to offend them. So I hope it wasn't something I said that made you feel the least bit embarrassed. |
Found a solution
I happen to own 2 w204, one c200k and anothet c300 v6.
IT HAPPENS TO BOTH VEHICLE AS YOU REACH 7-9 years of usage. on the c300 i went to the dealership and they landed me a hefty sum (USD 1800) which they went on to: 1. Replace ESL console box 2. Lubricate steering system 3. remove steering wheel rod as it is still in locked position 4. after removing the lock they tow the car to the dealership (my car went cold in a basement of a shopping mall which cant be towed due to tight spaces and require the steering to be unlocked first) 5. Reset the EIS NES. After the repair it works perfectly. However my heart didn't healed by the fact that we have to pay 1800 just because a small 50 cent motor fails. When it happened to my c200, i decided to call the dealership emergency hotline, ask the towing and onboard mechanic to remove the ESL. As it is in locked position they will have to cut 1 screw (using small metal hand saw) that locks the ESL to the steering column. once it is removed, i opened it up. THERE IS USUALLY ONLY 2 COMMON FLU for ESL issues. 1. Burnt out motor 2. Electronic board issue. So what i did is remove the motor from the ESL, bought a Tamiya motor (Japanese model car toy) motor for 2.5 usd (VERY VERY HIGH QUALITY). Remove the spining rod that connects to the gears from old motor and place it on the new motor. Afterwards using contact cleaner to clean the pcb board. continuing to replace the screw which was previously chopped off. Then lubricating all gears in the ESL. afterwards i put everything back in place. Once in place, I ask the MB mechanics to reset the ESL EIS NEC which locks the mechanism aftet several failed attempts. Everything works fine up till today. 1. Screw you MB for not providing just the motor or board which will be cheaper than replacing the whole chunk of die cast metal console. 2. Total repair cost is less than 120 USD inclusive of MB mechanics. i spent 2.5 $ on the motor, 3$ on contact cleaner, 1$ on gear lube, and 1.5$ on SS screw. THATS IT. MB was about to charge me 1800$ on something that solves the same problem. |
Thank you for this thread. My car wouldn't start yesterday. Jump start won't work. No whirling sound when I turn the key to ON. Radio works. No headlights. Can roll down windows with remote.
Just bought the motor on amazon for $9.89. Hope that'll fix it. |
Dead car
Originally Posted by JamesKim
(Post 6660128)
Hello everyone! I, like many other modern Benz owners, have found myself having trouble with the electronic steering lock. So far the car has failed to start twice within 2 weeks. It starts up right away if I take the key out and try again, but from what I've been reading this is a ticking time bomb and I don't have a lot of time. The following may be a bit of a read, so I apologize in advance, but I really want to make sure before I start ripping stuff out of my car.
I've been looking up a lot of different websites and threads where people have this issue, and it seems almost everyone is having similar symptoms. Although dealers are quick to change both the ESL (steering lock) and EIS, it seems the problem is mostly with the ESL, specifically the failure of the cheap looking motor inside the ESL. From further reading I'm under the assumption that once the ESL fails completely and no longer attempts to move the motor, (no longer making clicking noise) NEC will lock and you can no longer do anything about it other than take it from behind without lube from the stealership, or resort to aid from Russian hackers. However, if the problem is that the motor burns out, why is there an impending doom stage where the motor fails to unlock the steering the first time, but work in following attempts? A burnt out motor shouldn't come back to life. I think the problem isn't the motor, it must be friction of the mechanism that the motor is attempting to run. I think the motor is failing to unlock the steering wheel, because there's too much friction from the unlocking mechanism gears, thus telling the processor to stop trying. I think the reason why it works in following attempts is because the first attempt loosens up the gears, and it also explains why some users are having success hitting their dash or forcefully wiggling their steering wheel up and down and starting their car. I live in Manitoba, where the temperatures right now are wild and extremely cold, and the failure is happening right now where the temperatures are extremely low (-10 to -20), which meant more friction and harder time for the motor. Check out this thread below where a member had success bringing their ESL back to life by changing the battery, which he himself concludes is because of the extra voltage power from a brand new battery helping the mechanism. https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...thousands.html I don't think he fixed the problem, but he temporarily overcame it by providing extra power to overcome the friction. He had the right idea by saying it must be wear and tear, but I don't think the mechanism itself is wearing out because people are reporting failures at vastly different mileages. I'm guessing that people from hot climates last much longer than people from cold climates like mine. Mine is a 2011 and showing symptoms already. I also don't think its debris causing friction from the mechanism as ESL is sealed, but I think its more like whatever lubrication they used at the factory wears off and the gears stick together. So what I'm thinking is that before my motor dies completely and causes the NEC lock of doom, I can disconnect the battery, take everything apart, take the ESL out and then clean/lubricate the hell out of all the gears. The only thing that's stopping me from doing this is possibly messing up my car. Does this carry any risk if I don't physically damage anything? Is there a chance I can cause my car to lock up even if I disconnect the battery? Admittedly I'm not a good mechanic by any stretch, but I can't imagine it taking more than a few hours. What do you guys think? Should I go for it? I recently got vandalised (some piece of work took a crowbar and went to town on my fender) and I have an appointment next week to access damage so I will wait for that before I attempt to do this as I don't want my car to die before then, but I just want to see if I'm being an idiot or this sounds plausible :nix: |
Originally Posted by Jmarie
(Post 7876278)
I went to get airbag replaced. I parked at dealership. They wanted stering wheel to turn all the way left as far as it could then park and turn off. My car never turned on again. 2011glk 60000 mileage. Never happened before. Now needs replacement of eslock. Im spending $1800 by tuesday. So sad....
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Originally Posted by IGB
(Post 6662267)
This issue (ESL, EIS) does not and would not qualify for a recall based on the simple fact that it isn't a safety issue. Go back to the NHTSA website and read about how/why/when and by whom recalls are initiated.
In other words, the NHTSA cannot force Mercedes Benz to issue a recall... Alternatively, a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) is a form of a voluntary recall but in this case and much to the disappointment of many of you, Mercedes Benz is not inder any obligation to cover a part that fails after the vehicle's warranty has expired! I mean, how many here would expect to be reimbursed by Mercedes Benz for having to replace a thermostat, or a water pump, or an alternator, or a fuel pump, or an air pump, or a power steering pump, or a MAF Sensor.... and so on? And what makes ESL or EIS Any different than any of the above? To those who say its a "common" issue you can choose whatever terminology you prefer... but realistically speaking, referring to it as a "known" issue is much more appropriate. Yes, I realize how many threads there are discussing this problem, but I also know that Mercedes Benz uses the same part (or at least the same series of parts) on 171 of its current and previous models. So you... the likelihood is we are goung to here about a certain percentage of related failures. As for replacement costs reaching anywhere between $1000 -$1200.... The question that point raises is this: what is the threashold at which you'd expect a manufacturer to cover a part even AFTER the warranty ended? The answer to that question is there is no such threshold. And Mercedes Benz has a legally binding agreement which you implicitly agreed to when you made your purchase or lease (or explicitly acknowledged when you were offered an extended warranty which you (presumably) refused, instead, deciding to stay with the limited warranty... But please, don't believe any of this... At the end of the day, I am not the one who's disappointed... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$-RECALL-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I think it should be a recall and my reasons are as follows: 1-Some parts are straight forward like a thermostat and if the owner want or can, he can replace it himself. The thermostat will give warnings 2-Normally you always gets a warning about something is going to go wrong, old or new cars. In this case theres no warning, it just catch you out, Sudden Death. The warning I have noticed was only after the replacement, and that was not naturally noticible beforehand. There were also no warning light on dash coming on, in fact my car just came back from a service, they did not pick up on it either. 3-Mercedes can manufacture a very complicated gearbox as example that will out last this simple motor, that says a lot. 4-This motor itself is simple, but its part of a complicated engineered security section, which take it out of the hands of the most owners to finish the job properly. 5-Its part of a vehicle security issue. 6-It severly destroys your trust in the vehicle for future use. 7-The W204 was tested for 25 million kilometers in notices before I bought the car 2007/8, there is no excuse for this. 8-The fact that its an inferior part as suggested and actually proved by the very part itself over time, undo it from warrentee restrictions. 9-The rules and laws are written by people with facts & suggestions to their disposal at those times, that does not mean unforeseen circuimstances may not surface in practise.You simply does not know about it till it shows up in ways and forms a pattern of sorts, not just one isolated case. 10-I live in a murderous country, and if I get a puncture next to the road, and it would not start suddenly, my life can be in danger. If there was warnings, and I ignored it, I agree the blame shifts to me as far as the safety goes. 11-I am old enough, and not ever in my life had a previous make of vehicle dropped me like this, my oldest vehicle currently made 300 000Km with keys worn out at the doors, thats why I replaced the lot, the ignition key was also sefverly worned but vstill worked, it was cheap compared to Mercedes. 12-A law or rule written, does not prevent it from being questioned and changed. 13-Due to this I bought another new vehicle away from Mercedes back to trusty expected Japanese make. I now use the merc within a 200km radious only. The car give less problems for longer out of guarantee, so I keep it, I like the shape of it. >>>A lot point to a recall, or re-imburse of the costs to owner. Mercedes can recover the costs from the subcontracted manufacturer and its quality controls. |
Steering Lock Fix
2012 C 250
Mercedes EIS Mercedes ESL Replacement Fix My ex had a Steering Lock failure that left the vehicle stranded in a parking lot of her job. Did some research and contacted the local dealer to figure out what it would cost to fix. Quoted approx. $1900....i did some more research and completed the motor fix and it didn't work because the lock mechanism and ignition needed to be re-programmed. Searched high and low in my area and couldn't find anyone local. Stumbled across Pressertech and talked to Scott and he gave me the low down on what needed to be done. I pulled all the parts and sent them to them and was sent back the same day that they received my parts. They sent me the emulator that eliminates the locking mechanism so that it will never happen again and key and ignition reprogrammed. Super easy and it cost me a fraction of the cost the dealer was going to charge. GREAT experience dealing with Scott @ Pressertech and would recommend anyone that has this issue with the C-Class Steering Lock Issue reach out to these guys. They are Awesome.... Cost: $400.00 Better than the $1900 the stealer was going to charge |
Same thing happened to me yesterday. I kept getting a message that the front right corner light was burned out and got tired of having to clear it so I turned the steering wheel all the way to the left so I could get access to the light inside the fender well. When I went back to start the car it was dead. No amount of wiggling or forcing the wheel could get any results. That's when i started researching. There are several videos on Youtube. I called the german auto service that I have used for years and they suggested to try topping off my battery with a charger to see if that works before opening everything up. I plan to do that tonight...
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Originally Posted by Tdebiasi
(Post 7882322)
2012 C 250
Mercedes EIS Mercedes ESL Replacement Fix My ex had a Steering Lock failure that left the vehicle stranded in a parking lot of her job. Did some research and contacted the local dealer to figure out what it would cost to fix. Quoted approx. $1900....i did some more research and completed the motor fix and it didn't work because the lock mechanism and ignition needed to be re-programmed. Searched high and low in my area and couldn't find anyone local. Stumbled across Pressertech and talked to Scott and he gave me the low down on what needed to be done. I pulled all the parts and sent them to them and was sent back the same day that they received my parts. They sent me the emulator that eliminates the locking mechanism so that it will never happen again and key and ignition reprogrammed. Super easy and it cost me a fraction of the cost the dealer was going to charge. GREAT experience dealing with Scott @ Pressertech and would recommend anyone that has this issue with the C-Class Steering Lock Issue reach out to these guys. They are Awesome.... Cost: $400.00 Better than the $1900 the stealer was going to charge |
Originally Posted by bankerkys
(Post 7900495)
Great information. I just had this problem again today - I intend to call Pressertech. Thank you!
I got a motor from Amazon for $11 and fixed mine. It was actually quite easy. Saved a bunch of money too. I left the ESL outside the steering column when I repaired it so it cannot lock me out again. Everything works great now. |
Solutions:
0: Trouble starting? Battery OK? Yes! Drive to a stealership or into your garage for DIY, stop engine running, but do NOT take out the key, cut battery and then take out the key. Pulling out the key will lock the steering column via a pin, see item 2 below. 1 Stealerships, $2,000 or more to replace the ELS and mate the new ELS with the ignition lock and key. 2 DIY: Is steering locked? Oh, no! Take out the whole steering column to take out the ESL by cutting the 10mm bolt via hacksaw to take out the ESL. You cannot take out the ESL when the steering locking pin is out and the mounting bolt (10mm) is in the way! Two hours job to cut the bolt, done it. Open the ESL up with a tool supplied by Aliexpress to get the four pins out and buy that US3 motor which burns out slowly. China is not delivering, so buy it locally. There is a way to take out the lot and do it. Kickplate and surround of the gauges is all you have to take off to loosen four bolts on the column. Electrics have to be taken off. 3 DIY: Steering not locked, great! Watch Youtube from MIKEYZ Part1 to take out the ESL without removing the column. Part2 and other Youtube videos help in fixing the ESL with that AUS$5 motor. An emulator may also kid the computers that the motor is still ok, but it has to be mated with that NEC security chip on the ELS and the ignition lock and key. There is a rumor around the traps, that if you tried to start too many times, the NEC security chip locks you out and you have to send the ELS, ignition lock and key to a locksmith to reset?? The Americans are already talking class action against Merc, as that US$3 Chinese motor is slowly grinding to a halt, perhaps due to lack of Lithium greasse; German quality? Aliexpress sells them in lots of tens, also the tool to take out the ignition lock. Some users know to hit low down at the ESL to have the motor run and let the car start one last time. |
Originally Posted by Blueline82
(Post 6662715)
Im having the same problem but like a dummy got it towed to a stealership lol mine was no longer making a noise no matter what I did literally beat the hell out of the steering column and wiggled steering wheel no luck the mechanism no longer made a sound....by the way i have an 09 mercedes c350 i wish they would do a damn recall this is a common problem obviously and im about to get screwed with a big ass bill.
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Some are lucky and catch the problem with the ESL in time, get a US$3.75 motor from China, change the motor and using MYKEYZs Youtube video WITHOUT taking the column and manage to start the car again. One trick is to leave the ESL hanging and not attaching it to column, that means the insurance may not pay after theft, but it will be easier to change the motor next time! My original motor lasted 13 years.
Unlucky ones like myself at least made it home (lucky), tried to start too many times and have a locked steering. Column has to be taken off and 10mm holding bolt of ESL has to be cut, two hours with hacksaw. After changing the motor find that the burnt out motor has messed up the NEC security chip due to a larger Amp draw and that means sending/delivering the ESL/EIS (ignition) and key to be fixed by replacing the NEC chip to expert locksmiths. Those experts will then claim they are putting in a genuine motor, not Chinese, and they are replacing the NEC chip with a genuine one, not Chinese. Cost: AUS$440, better than $2000 plus towing. |
You are lucky having caught it in time.
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Originally Posted by michail71
(Post 6660248)
I don't know anything about the issue but it sounds interesting.
Has anyone taken apart the ESL to verify what actually failed? If it does use lubrication I would assume you would need to be very careful in what you use to relubricate. If you go for it I would say the battery should be disconnected first. No telling what would happen if the car sees the module being removed. |
For those who aren't entirely familiar with the significance of pulling the key out or not, if you don't pull the key out and steering is still unlocked, does this mean that your dealership will actually do the job of replacing the ESL at a much lower price??
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You can still pull the key out AFTER having disconnected the battery. I doubt a stealership will have two different prices, they will charge as much as the market will bear! Towing may be easier and possibly cheaper?
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IGB: The motors fail and I opened mine to see the worn carbon brushes as the cause. Mine was a genuine German one and failed after 13 years and 130,000km. It is possible to get a genuine motor from Europe for 40 Euros or a cheap Chinese copy from Aliexpress or Fleabay from US$3.75 upwards plus the cylindrical tool to take out ignition switch (EIS/EZS) plus the handle with the square end you hammer into the four pins of the ESL to remove the lid to change the motor.
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So it sounds like unless you intend on spending a whole day fiddling with this and trying to replace it yourself, it doesn't really matter if the pin is locked or not?
As far as a preventive measure, isn't the preventive measure just to replace this motor preventively??? Everyone keeps saying it's 50 cents. You can either do it today when you haven't been left stranded somewhere, or wait until it fails and get stranded. |
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