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229.51 oils are unsuitable for Benz Gasoline engines. That's why Benz placed ash limits on the products so no manufacturer could claim their product met both specs. 229.51 has an ash limit of less than 0.8%. 229.51 oils are incapable of protecting the highly stressed cam & tappet area of a Benz Gasoline engine. The reason a 229.51 oil works in a diesel is that diesels are rev limited to approx 4500rpm by the combustion process & run far less aggressive cams than a gasoline engine. A 229.5 engine oil typically has twice the antiwear additive treat of a 229.51. Diesel engine oils are formulated to combat high temperature sludge whereas gasoline engine oils are formulated to combat low temperature sludge. While certain ashless dispersants etc. are added to 229.51 products to make them as robust as possible they will never pass 229.5 requirements with respect to valve train wear, HTHS & other needs in highly stressed engine areas. All oils within a specific Benz approval category are fungible & miscible irrespective of viscosity
Do not use 229.51 engine oils in a Benz gasoline engine. You will suffer accelerated valve train wear leading ultimately to a failure.
This is complete Bull*****.
My brand new AMG GT with the 4L V8 recommends 229.51!
229.51 oils are unsuitable for Benz Gasoline engines. That's why Benz placed ash limits on the products so no manufacturer could claim their product met both specs. 229.51 has an ash limit of less than 0.8%. 229.51 oils are incapable of protecting the highly stressed cam & tappet area of a Benz Gasoline engine. The reason a 229.51 oil works in a diesel is that diesels are rev limited to approx 4500rpm by the combustion process & run far less aggressive cams than a gasoline engine. A 229.5 engine oil typically has twice the antiwear additive treat of a 229.51. Diesel engine oils are formulated to combat high temperature sludge whereas gasoline engine oils are formulated to combat low temperature sludge. While certain ashless dispersants etc. are added to 229.51 products to make them as robust as possible they will never pass 229.5 requirements with respect to valve train wear, HTHS & other needs in highly stressed engine areas. All oils within a specific Benz approval category are fungible & miscible irrespective of viscosity
Do not use 229.51 engine oils in a Benz gasoline engine. You will suffer accelerated valve train wear leading ultimately to a failure.
+1 a lack of knowledge , but then engine oil is a confusing subject and why I use VW 504.00 507.00 in a Mercedes Benz !!
This is complete Bull*****.
My brand new AMG GT with the 4L V8 recommends 229.51!
You’re the “oil expert”?! What a joke.
Actually, it's good advice. Your manual recommends 229.5 OR 229.51, but most dealers only use 229.5 in gas engines and 229.51 in diesels. The low-ash oil that's required for diesels isn't quite as good in other properties as 229.5, which is why you're better off with it unless you have to use the diesel oil. It's spec'ed this way so smaller shops can stock a single oil, but my dealership doesn't recommend 229.51 in any gasoline engine.
Actually, it's good advice. Your manual recommends 229.5 OR 229.51, but most dealers only use 229.5 in gas engines and 229.51 in diesels. The low-ash oil that's required for diesels isn't quite as good in other properties as 229.5, which is why you're better off with it unless you have to use the diesel oil. It's spec'ed this way so smaller shops can stock a single oil, but my dealership doesn't recommend 229.51 in any gasoline engine.
Ok thanks.
as far as weight - to get back on the original topic: 5W40 vs 0W40 - the only difference appears to be that 0W is better for temps below -35C. Do you concur?
Most, if not all MB dealers, at least in N America, seem to only use 5W40.
Ok thanks.
as far as weight - to get back on the original topic: 5W40 vs 0W40 - the only difference appears to be that 0W is better for temps below -35C. Do you concur?
Most, if not all MB dealers, at least in N America, seem to only use 5W40.
Yes. 5W is good for -30C and 0W for -35C. Maybe it matters in Minnesota, but you probably need to live in Saskatchewan to worry about using 0W-40.
Yes. 5W is good for -30C and 0W for -35C. Maybe it matters in Minnesota, but you probably need to live in Saskatchewan to worry about using 0W-40.
Thanks @whoover . And I guess you take wind chill into account, right? We can see -20C with the wind chill, but it never really gets below -14C by the thermometer here in Toronto.
Hope everyone is staying safe during this crazy time.
Thanks @whoover . And I guess you take wind chill into account, right? We can see -20C with the wind chill, but it never really gets below -14C by the thermometer here in Toronto.
Hope everyone is staying safe during this crazy time.
I don't think the engine feels wind chill . I was in Saskatoon once when it was -40. -40C is -40F. That's cold.
Actually, it's good advice. Your manual recommends 229.5 OR 229.51, but most dealers only use 229.5 in gas engines and 229.51 in diesels. The low-ash oil that's required for diesels isn't quite as good in other properties as 229.5, which is why you're better off with it unless you have to use the diesel oil. It's spec'ed this way so smaller shops can stock a single oil, but my dealership doesn't recommend 229.51 in any gasoline engine.
I forgot what the specific property is, but the non-ESP formula better resists acidic moisture due to the inclusion of ethanol in gas. This is not an issue with diesel, of course. The low ash content is needed to protect the particulate filter, so the acid resistance was traded off for low ash.
There's quite a few 229.51 that are also VW 504.00 507.00 , the staple universal diet of VAG , 3 cylinder petrol and diesel , turbo & na , right up to V10 RS monsters .
OMG are you guys foreal. they have 2 versions of Mobil-1 5w-40 the first is Formula M is for gasoline engines with approval 229.5 but NOT 229.51 and then there is Mobil 1 5w40 ESP for diesels.
The bit I don't get is there is no mention of oil basestock groups in an oil thread especially when saying 229.51 and 229.5 that .
There was a decade long opinionated heated discussion with no actual proof about two VW oils and I was the first in the world to unravel it !
Basically when you go low SAPS you reduce antiware ZDDP , now Phosphorus here is the biggest ash by product , but to compensate the oil basestocks can be higher ( this can be very difficult to find out ) and the additive package concentration goes up to include extra friction modifiers etc .
With exactly this approach the VW lows SAPS bettered the older spec , both have dual petrol and diesel specs BTW .
In the case of the two MB oils there is no difference in anti wear .
If you use a diesel Longlife oil it will have more antioxidants , more detergents and dispersants ( that's more polar heads with hydrocarbon tails folks !) with NO loss of protection .
Same with GL5 manual gearbox oils corroding yellow metals , they're absolutely fine , it's the exact level of sulphur that's important , some GL5 are for diffs and will have even more sulphur .
Last edited by Gazwould; Mar 27, 2020 at 04:15 AM.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Geez! Nothing like digging up an OLD thread. I'm not going to read through 65+ posts just to do what anyone should do with their Mercedes--follow the owner's manual.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by Gazwould
Then when a better oil spec comes out you miss out .
Handbooks are frozen in time .
Really? How many new grades have come out? If there is an improvement to 0W-40, that doesn't change the requirement to use 0W-40. If your car's engine was originally designed to use 0W-40, what new oil will you use that is different.
By the way, if I lived in south Florida, maybe I'd use 5W-40. Otherwise, I'm sticking to what the manual says.
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. I was in Saskatoon once when it was -40. -40C is -40F. That's cold.
