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2012 are DI , my 2012 C350 has the M276 engine. Why are you so against them anyway? More power, better mileage. Just curious?
No. My/MY 2012 C300 4matic is not DI, and has the M272 engine. Maybe it's different in the US, but every single 2012 C300 4matic in Canada is a non DI 272 engine. While I'm tempted to post a photo as they are worth a thousand words I have to make my way to work shortly. I can post one later if you'd like.
Why do I hate them?
It's the equivalent of having cancer in your engine. Sure, they're great when they're new, but my experience from having owned an engine that was DI = never owning one for the forseeable future.
Intake buildup of carbon causing decreased MPG, decreased HP from the get go, rough idles etc. Increased long term cost of owning a DI engine as well (HPFP costs, more frequent oil changes are required). <--and that's backed up by various UOA's that I've done which has shown engine oil shearing as quickly as 3000km.
(note: My experience with DI engines are NOT from owning a MB engine, but to this date, no friend on MBWorld or friend at the dealership has shown me intake valve condition on a DI MB engine after 15,000 miles which was as clean as a PFI engine)
Feel free to google "Direct injection intake carbon buildup". Every single vendor that I can think of, from Ford to Mazda to Hyundai to BMW to Audi has this issue. No, MB engines do not appear to have widespread issues in this arena, but there is no proof I can find indicating that MB has magically solved this issue. (Lexus has, but they have both DI and PFI and have patented the use of both in their engines).
Last edited by superangrypenguin; Apr 25, 2017 at 08:57 AM.
No. My/MY 2012 C300 4matic is not DI, and has the M272 engine. Maybe it's different in the US, but every single 2012 C300 4matic in Canada is a non DI 272 engine. While I'm tempted to post a photo as they are worth a thousand words I have to make my way to work shortly. I can post one later if you'd like.
Why do I hate them?
It's the equivalent of having cancer in your engine. Sure, they're great when they're new, but my experience from having owned an engine that was DI = never owning one for the forseeable future.
Intake buildup of carbon causing decreased MPG, decreased HP from the get go, rough idles etc. Increased long term cost of owning a DI engine as well (HPFP costs, more frequent oil changes are required). <--and that's backed up by various UOA's that I've done which has shown engine oil shearing as quickly as 3000km.
(note: My experience with DI engines are NOT from owning a MB engine, but to this date, no friend on MBWorld or friend at the dealership has shown me intake valve condition on a DI MB engine after 15,000 miles which was as clean as a PFI engine)
Feel free to google "Direct injection intake carbon buildup". Every single vendor that I can think of, from Ford to Mazda to Hyundai to BMW to Audi has this issue. No, MB engines do not appear to have widespread issues in this arena, but there is no proof I can find indicating that MB has magically solved this issue. (Lexus has, but they have both DI and PFI and have patented the use of both in their engines).
Yes, I get your concern, and why I no longer have a VAG product (the concerns you raise are valid for sure, and I too, have experienced them in the past with VW). However, I did a lot of research before buying my C350, including going to a few very well respected independent German specialist garages here in Ottawa, and I have seen a tore down M276 engine with over 120k on it, and it had nowhere near the carbon build up you see on an Audi engine with only 40k. If you search back through these forums, you will see evidence from well respected MB contributors and techs on here with posts showing that M-B did quite a few changes to the combustion chambers and even spark plug placement in relation to the intake valves, etc. Those changes would appear to have made a difference as we don't see the issues other manufacturers have. It makes perfect sense as well, as they didn't want the same headaches BMW, VW/Audi and others saw years earlier.
On your comment about Lexus, well, they may patented their own technology, but guess what? They aren't the only ones using it now, both Ford and VW/Audi are using a similar setup now on their cars.
Don't be afraid of technology, and don't lump all manufacturers in the same group either.
Thanks. Wait, but Ford VW and Audi are using port and direct injection in their engines? Really? (B/c If so I'm going to head to an Audi dealership now and buy a car)...
Thanks for the info about the M276 engine and for the detail. I appreciate it. Do you have any pics of the intake valves of the engine you mentioned with 120k? If not, no worries, but I just really wanted to see it for myself.
Any issues with fuel dilution or early shearing of engine oil for the M276? I was shocked to see that the oil change interval for a FI MY272 engine and a DI M276 engine was the same. I'm sure the 276 engine shreds the engine oil much quicker than a 272 engine.
And an article on Ford switching over to "dual injection" as well (there is a lot of articles about Ford "quietly" switching over on all of their Eco Boost engines)
Good reading, but, doesn't help current owners fighting out of warranty repairs and costly cleaning.
On the oil dilution concern. I have not seen or witnessed myself any evidence of that, that also was a concern of mine when looking at used M276 M-B cars. The same well respected M-B mechanic that did my PPI (independent German garage, long time ex M-B trained tech), mentioned he had not seen ANY evidence of fuel dilution in any of his customers cars, unlike Audi's, whom he was doing tear downs and cleanings on a weekly basis in his shop. So, take that for what it's worth, but, I tend to believe him since we (the online community as a whole) would have heard of many issues by now considering how long the M276 has been on the market (it was available before 2012 in Europe). Again, YMMV.
Last edited by pozi240; Apr 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM.
Reason: addition
Anybody have any news if MB is switching to a dual injection system too? (provided that they do have this same issue in case the n=1 case above was a one off -e.g. the intake valves were clean?)
That's why I'm looking at MB now. I'm done with Audi, two went down at the same time. The 06-08 B7 have the worst carbon build up, that's including the B7 RS4.
It's going to be my daily so mileage don't matter to me, just commute from home to work. Plus I bought my wife a brand new car to replace her Audi, so I can't afford another brand new car.
Found a 2009 C63 AMG with 90,000 miles for a really good price. Only thing is, I need AWD because it snows crazy over here. Was thinking fix the Audi and drive that in the winter, when snow is gone, I'll drive the C63 then wife will be like "why get rid of my car and fix yours? Why you have two cars for? that's too many cars and blah blah blah....
That's why I'm looking at MB now. I'm done with Audi, two went down at the same time. The 06-08 B7 have the worst carbon build up, that's including the B7 RS4.
It's going to be my daily so mileage don't matter to me, just commute from home to work. Plus I bought my wife a brand new car to replace her Audi, so I can't afford another brand new car.
Found a 2009 C63 AMG with 90,000 miles for a really good price. Only thing is, I need AWD because it snows crazy over here. Was thinking fix the Audi and drive that in the winter, when snow is gone, I'll drive the C63 then wife will be like "why get rid of my car and fix yours? Why you have two cars for? that's too many cars and blah blah blah....
Yeah, had the B7 A4. One of the worst engines designed for real life use.
What idiot came up with the idea to use a flat tappet cam follower?!
?!?!?! At least they fixed that in the B8 A4 with a roller cam, but still. Man thinking about that engine still pisses me off.
After a long search, I have finally found the W204 that I like and own my first MB. It's a 2013 C300 Sport 4Matic with 50,560miles.
The only down side? The previous owner have a dog, so dog hair is everywhere. Dealer didn't do a very good job cleaning the car. Also need the Becker navi map pilot. Other than that the car is very solid, handles very well.
If it otherwise checks out and is a fair deal just take it to a good detail shop. Will cost you some money, but the problem will be solved. Might be able to get a couple hundred more off the car because of it.
A nice upgrade to it might be to replace the Audio 20 with a Comand HU. The AMG package never seems to comes with Comand/HK. So you'd never find one optioned like that.
It's not a cheap upgrade but you wouldn't need to get the Becker.
Was it at CarMax? They stopped detailing their cars a while back. I was on one of their lots a few weeks ago and noticed all the cars were dirty and many of them and a musty stench. I actually felt a little sickened after being in a few. It wasn't the new car buying experienced they were offering a few years ago.
You got the exact combo I would have liked. Sport Plus and Polar white, except you are missing essentials such as COMAND and Bixenons. Headlights can be fixed easy though with aftermarket.
A nice upgrade to it might be to replace the Audio 20 with a Comand HU. The AMG package never seems to comes with Comand/HK. So you'd never find one optioned like th
It's not a cheap upgrade but you wouldn't need to get the Becker.
I dont really need navi anyway, most of the time I'm listening to the radio
Originally Posted by michail71
Was it at CarMax? They stopped detailing their cars a while back. I was on one of their lots a few weeks ago and noticed all the cars were dirty and many of them and a musty stench. I actually felt a little sickened after being in a few. It wasn't the new car buying experienced they were offering a few years ago.
No it wasn't on CarMax
Originally Posted by xEryx
You got the exact combo I would have liked. Sport Plus and Polar white, except you are missing essentials such as COMAND and Bixenons. Headlights can be fixed easy though with aftermarket.
I know, but it's a hard find, plus I already missed one so I have to pull the trigger on this one quick. How do I upgrade to Bixenons? Any links? Thanks
Last edited by PatronasF1AMG; Jul 15, 2017 at 12:38 PM.
I dont really need navi anyway, most of the time I'm listening to the radio
No it wasn't on CarMax
I know, but it's a hard find, plus I already missed one so I have to pull the trigger on this one quick. How do I upgrade to Bixenons? Any links? Thanks
I didn't mean upgrade to Bixenons, that is expensive. I meant swapping out the headlight for some aftermarket which you can fit HID's in and give you the looks of the Bixenons.
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then wife will be like "why get rid of my car and fix yours? Why you have two cars for? that's too many cars and blah blah blah....
