Infared Thermometer Suggestions
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,037
Likes: 1,012
From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
The bolts are stetch/TTY bolts, but mostly because they are aluminum. They break VERY easily, don't overtighten. You will feel how they come out, they aren't in there that hard. Put them back in same way, no special torque, they don't hold anything structural, just don't go cranking down on them and snap them off.
The pan gasket is the only thing that seals, so make sure it's aligned right (on some cars the rear mount/crossmember interferes), and make sure the brackets that are on the bolts are sitting right. All you are really doing is bolting that bracket down to the transmission, once it's touching, no amount of making it tighter is going to do anything but break the bolt.
The pan gasket is the only thing that seals, so make sure it's aligned right (on some cars the rear mount/crossmember interferes), and make sure the brackets that are on the bolts are sitting right. All you are really doing is bolting that bracket down to the transmission, once it's touching, no amount of making it tighter is going to do anything but break the bolt.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
The bolts are stetch/TTY bolts, but mostly because they are aluminum. They break VERY easily, don't overtighten. You will feel how they come out, they aren't in there that hard. Put them back in same way, no special torque, they don't hold anything structural, just don't go cranking down on them and snap them off.
The pan gasket is the only thing that seals, so make sure it's aligned right (on some cars the rear mount/crossmember interferes), and make sure the brackets that are on the bolts are sitting right. All you are really doing is bolting that bracket down to the transmission, once it's touching, no amount of making it tighter is going to do anything but break the bolt.
The pan gasket is the only thing that seals, so make sure it's aligned right (on some cars the rear mount/crossmember interferes), and make sure the brackets that are on the bolts are sitting right. All you are really doing is bolting that bracket down to the transmission, once it's touching, no amount of making it tighter is going to do anything but break the bolt.
Thanks!
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
Chris did you read this sticky thread? it casts some confusion regarding the fluids. saying 236.14 for use in 7G, except 7G+ which 236.15 (blue)
what do you think?
the one guy (post 46) mentions ECS but no one ever responded to him...
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-imminent.html
what do you think?
the one guy (post 46) mentions ECS but no one ever responded to him...
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-imminent.html
Last edited by B737; May 23, 2017 at 09:44 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
Hey, I read the whole thread and there does seem to be allot of confusion. Some are saying the stop start eco mode... is the indicator but mine does not have eco mode and mine is a 2013. See post # 23...the link allows you to download an article there is a bunch of technical talk in this article about the new transmission the key being reduced friction this and that....which directly correlates with the A89 code. I also noticed that post #46, as you mentioned, asks them to clarify what to look for in the Vin to confirm the transmission...but everyone dodges this and does not answer anywhere in the thread. ...its as if they have no idea what to look for in the VIN either. I sent a private message to the poster to see what he found out ...but he does not seem very active and is probably long gone....I suppose if you start to drain it a bit you will be able to tell by the color...they sure do make it hard on purpose so that people cant service their own cars....
Worst part is we are supposed to do this every 4 years....yuk
Worst part is we are supposed to do this every 4 years....yuk
Last edited by St.Christopher; May 22, 2017 at 10:00 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
Thanks Chris, haha once we figure it all out the first time it will be smooth sailing from here
i thought i would just call the dealer parts guy and ask him since thats where im ordering the parts from, but i do not have confidence that even they will get it right.
i thought i would just call the dealer parts guy and ask him since thats where im ordering the parts from, but i do not have confidence that even they will get it right.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
The stealership I called told me that the torque converter did not need to be drained they denied I even asked them to check the WIS they never called me back......
I have heard of the dealership putting in the wrong fluids too....
This is the problem no one really knows...and the dealership cannot be trusted.
So until we check the fluid coming out of car ...we wont know...hell the fluid originally put in might even be wrong....
I have heard of the dealership putting in the wrong fluids too....
This is the problem no one really knows...and the dealership cannot be trusted.
So until we check the fluid coming out of car ...we wont know...hell the fluid originally put in might even be wrong....
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
i searched both pdf docs in that thread but didnt see any A89 listed in them specifically just reduced friction.
i agree, checking the fluid coming out of the car is going to be the only way to know for sure now, and its prob faster than continued searching on this topic due to all the misinformation. i guess i will crack the drain plug and hold a white shop cloth under it and see...
i agree, checking the fluid coming out of the car is going to be the only way to know for sure now, and its prob faster than continued searching on this topic due to all the misinformation. i guess i will crack the drain plug and hold a white shop cloth under it and see...
Last edited by B737; May 23, 2017 at 10:41 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,402
Likes: 260
From: Canada
A car
The stealership I called told me that the torque converter did not need to be drained they denied I even asked them to check the WIS they never called me back......
I have heard of the dealership putting in the wrong fluids too....
This is the problem no one really knows...and the dealership cannot be trusted.
So until we check the fluid coming out of car ...we wont know...hell the fluid originally put in might even be wrong....
I have heard of the dealership putting in the wrong fluids too....
This is the problem no one really knows...and the dealership cannot be trusted.
So until we check the fluid coming out of car ...we wont know...hell the fluid originally put in might even be wrong....
They are WRONG. Contact MB corporate as well with this issue and make sure they do it and document it in the receipt/invoice/work order. That's what I had done.
I specifically asked them to do the work, to NOT charge extra for it, and make sure they documented everything. Those b*stards.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
it comes down to the guy wrenching on your car, unless you are physically there watching the procedure. what they enter into the computer and charge you to make you think something was done is up to them.
Last edited by B737; May 23, 2017 at 12:53 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
i called the dealer parts dept, figured why not ask. sure enough he told me "you have A89 reduced friction so you need the blue stuff".
all things pointing to 236.15 like you were saying, and ECS too...
all things pointing to 236.15 like you were saying, and ECS too...
Last edited by B737; May 27, 2017 at 09:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
Good to hear that we figured it out! I think the A89 confirmation from ECS, dealer parts guy, and article discussing friction modification is pretty good confirmation. I also read the guide tube in the pan should be green (if you need the blue stuff) ..white guide tubes are the older fluid.
On another irritating note when you do and if you do the brake flush yourself be very careful with the bleeder valve screws...I tightened mine just a tad to tight and it busted and brake fluid started to run out of it...worse part I ruined the delicate (made to fall apart) internal threads on my brake caliper and hence introduced air into the system as it leaked for hours as I tried to find a replacement bleeder valve and no one carried it...ended up putting a hose on it and clamped it. Tried to look up which brake caliper I had but darn thing does not have a product code anywhere on its physical self and there were multiple options for my year and car..Then I found out if you get air in the brake system you have to hook it up to a special Merc machine to operate some valves and get all the air out....Seriously? I got fed up with it....wasn't worth the time and effort. Dropped it at the dealer for them to sort it out.....hope this trans fluid change does not end up the same way, these euro cars are delicate. I did my Nismo 370z brake flush couple days before this one eight total bleeder valve screws not one problem....Mercedez Benz purposefully makes it hard to work on these cars and limits the information assailable to the DIY guy.
On another irritating note when you do and if you do the brake flush yourself be very careful with the bleeder valve screws...I tightened mine just a tad to tight and it busted and brake fluid started to run out of it...worse part I ruined the delicate (made to fall apart) internal threads on my brake caliper and hence introduced air into the system as it leaked for hours as I tried to find a replacement bleeder valve and no one carried it...ended up putting a hose on it and clamped it. Tried to look up which brake caliper I had but darn thing does not have a product code anywhere on its physical self and there were multiple options for my year and car..Then I found out if you get air in the brake system you have to hook it up to a special Merc machine to operate some valves and get all the air out....Seriously? I got fed up with it....wasn't worth the time and effort. Dropped it at the dealer for them to sort it out.....hope this trans fluid change does not end up the same way, these euro cars are delicate. I did my Nismo 370z brake flush couple days before this one eight total bleeder valve screws not one problem....Mercedez Benz purposefully makes it hard to work on these cars and limits the information assailable to the DIY guy.
Last edited by St.Christopher; May 27, 2017 at 12:24 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,037
Likes: 1,012
From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
I disagree, having done brake repairs on many cars, and doing brake flushes on every car that comes into benz with a "B" service, there is no 'delicate' design of the brake calipers or bleeder. You probably over tightened it or just got unlucky.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
wow what are the chances. it is the worst when an otherwise mindless job turns into a complete cluster in a split second out of left field. you were pressure bleeding with a motive bleeder?
i think you'd have to get a A LOT of air in the system for air to make it back to the abs valves necessitating cycling them with star computer...
i think you'd have to get a A LOT of air in the system for air to make it back to the abs valves necessitating cycling them with star computer...
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
wow what are the chances. it is the worst when an otherwise mindless job turns into a complete cluster in a split second out of left field. you were pressure bleeding with a motive bleeder?
i think you'd have to get a A LOT of air in the system for air to make it back to the abs valves necessitating cycling them with star computer...
i think you'd have to get a A LOT of air in the system for air to make it back to the abs valves necessitating cycling them with star computer...
Yep motive bleeder....would have been easy..my fault...but it was allot easier to fix by spending the money...
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
Never had this problem on my Corvettes, G37 nor 370z....but it was my fault I definitely over tightened it,.....what occurred was after I flushed the rear left, when I tightened the bleeder it was leaking at the bottom of the valve screw location so I tightened it a bit more, still leaking, a bit more...in your opinion do you think I should have put some kind of thread sealant on the threads of the bleeder screw valves? The right hand rear did this too me also so I tightened that one up real tight and no problem...Also do you happen to have the torque specs on the bleeder valve screws?
Last edited by St.Christopher; May 27, 2017 at 10:08 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,037
Likes: 1,012
From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
Not saying it was your fault, but the design itself is no different than any other car. Many of the MB calipers are still iron, the aluminum calipers you have to be pretty careful as they can strip very easily.
Thread sealant will not help, the seal on a bleeder is on the taper at the bottom of the hole, not the threads. Like a flare fitting.
I don't know it off hand, but I can look it up in WIS. I'm sure there is a specified torque and it's probably quite low. I use a small 11mm wrench to do my brake flushes on the benz cars.
Thread sealant will not help, the seal on a bleeder is on the taper at the bottom of the hole, not the threads. Like a flare fitting.
I don't know it off hand, but I can look it up in WIS. I'm sure there is a specified torque and it's probably quite low. I use a small 11mm wrench to do my brake flushes on the benz cars.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
All done. we did a friends 2010 C300 4matic yesterday and it was really straight forward. The amount of misinformation and dead ends on the forum really cause a lot of confusion.
everything went according to plan. the car arrived hot so when we drained it, took out about 8.8L, pumped it full with around 9.5L, and then drained it back. I had a measuring container under the drain stream to keep an eye on the quantity coming out, a friend held the plug, and we called it when the stream started to break down. put the plug in and buttoned everything up.
to make a chute for the torque converter drain i used a 4" x 12" piece of flashing, and it worked great to control the 4L liters that dribbled out of it.
the TQ drain plug threw me a curve ball, i foolishly assumed jamming my 4mm ball allen would do the trick but it was a sloppy fit, so we used a champman low profile driver to remove it.
the icarsoft i980 was useful to stay on top of the transmission temperature... and monitor gears during shifting.
the motive-flow power filler is great, easy to measure exactly what is going in, and pressurizing it with shop air is convenient, no pumping while you are trying to focus on other things...
everything went according to plan. the car arrived hot so when we drained it, took out about 8.8L, pumped it full with around 9.5L, and then drained it back. I had a measuring container under the drain stream to keep an eye on the quantity coming out, a friend held the plug, and we called it when the stream started to break down. put the plug in and buttoned everything up.
to make a chute for the torque converter drain i used a 4" x 12" piece of flashing, and it worked great to control the 4L liters that dribbled out of it.
the TQ drain plug threw me a curve ball, i foolishly assumed jamming my 4mm ball allen would do the trick but it was a sloppy fit, so we used a champman low profile driver to remove it.
the icarsoft i980 was useful to stay on top of the transmission temperature... and monitor gears during shifting.
the motive-flow power filler is great, easy to measure exactly what is going in, and pressurizing it with shop air is convenient, no pumping while you are trying to focus on other things...
Last edited by B737; Jun 5, 2017 at 01:12 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
Great job B737....I started working on mine late last night. Got to the point of removing the pan....drained the torque converter and pan with no issues so far.
Riser pipe was a bit of a pain...could not get it to pop off I needed a flash light to see exactly how the plastic riser sat and then with a screw driver I was able to pop it off from underneath.
The torque convert is a 4mm hex and the pan 6 mm hex.
Need also 27mm to rotate engine...I was able to do so without help, lying on your back you can be under the the torque converter hole and still reach a long ratchet wrench from underneath...Anyone can reach, I think because I don't have long arms.
Riser pipe was a bit of a pain...could not get it to pop off I needed a flash light to see exactly how the plastic riser sat and then with a screw driver I was able to pop it off from underneath.
The torque convert is a 4mm hex and the pan 6 mm hex.
Need also 27mm to rotate engine...I was able to do so without help, lying on your back you can be under the the torque converter hole and still reach a long ratchet wrench from underneath...Anyone can reach, I think because I don't have long arms.
Last edited by St.Christopher; Jun 6, 2017 at 01:22 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
good work Chris!
for the fill we pumped in 7 liters, started the car, began watching the temp, let in the next 2.5 liters while someone in the seat cycled through gears w foot on brake, then removed the fill port, and put the plug back in when the stream checked.
keep us posted
for the fill we pumped in 7 liters, started the car, began watching the temp, let in the next 2.5 liters while someone in the seat cycled through gears w foot on brake, then removed the fill port, and put the plug back in when the stream checked.
keep us posted
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
So I took pan off toniight cleaned it up and put it back on. Here is where I had a minor problem the pan bolts I read on multiple resources were to be tightened first to 5 NM then 10 Nm total. This is incorrect. I snapped a bolt trying to get to 10nm. I should have known better as it was very easy to remove initially. Got lucky since they are long bolts it snapped near the top so all I had to do is grab the trusty pliers and turn it out. Nonetheless I believe the correct torque is 4 to 5 Nm on these bolts? Can someone confirm the torque and what do you think about me using an old bolt? Should I order 6 more or is this overkill?
Last edited by St.Christopher; Jun 6, 2017 at 09:47 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 379
Likes: 41
From: Jersey Shore
2012 GLK
We did ours to 4nm plus 90 degrees as going to 180 felt way too tight. I think you could get away with reusing one for now and it will be fine. Swap it later if you want. It's easy to see if the pan starts leaking so it will be easy to keep an eye on. I wouldn't let this stop the job.
Last edited by B737; Jun 7, 2017 at 12:12 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
C250
We did ours to 4nm plus 90 degrees as going to 180 felt way too tight. I think you could get away with reusing one for now and it will be fine. Swap it later if you want. It's easy to see if the pan starts leaking so it will be easy to keep an eye on. I would let this stop the job.
Adding the fluid tomorrow...
