vols1

It's early but I was expecting more problems with the w205 and there certainly seem to be far fewer than the 3 series. Time will tell as sales accumulate. BMW also has quality control problems where the forums reference pages of issues such as wind noise, rattles and rusty seats.
It will be interesting to see what MB Canada does to increase sales of the C. They can't be pleased with the numbers so far, particularly since US sales have grown and Canadian sales numbers have declined.

Ron J

Price is definitely a factor for me here in Canada. The more limited build options are a factor too, but if Canadian dealers were to offer the same 12%-15% off MSRP that Americans are routinely getting, it would help. We're already dealing with a higher MSRP and 15% tax on top of everything. It's a nice car, but not at that price point. I could buy a new Corvette for less money than a C400. There was a window for MB Canada to gain market share over their competitors but they blew it with their pricing. Now I'm going to wait and see what the C450 offers and what they'll be priced at, but new competing models are just around the corner from other manufacturers, so if it's going to be more of the same I'll spend my money elsewhere.

Eilers

Ryan_U

I'm glad to see that other Canadians are also in the same boat as I am. I can only imagine if the c400 is already too expensive then what will the c450 be priced at here. I literally haven't seen one c400 on the road. My dealer said he hasn't sold many which in dealer speak means he really hasn't sold a lot. I remember reading that for September, sales of the c-classs were down 30% yet sales at Mercedes are up 19% so they are selling a lot of everything else but the c class. It was like the worst month for the c-class in 10 years... This is not at all the case in the USA where 10-15% discounts are pricing the w205 at a point that has them moving. Why Mercedes Canada isn't reacting I have no idea. Probably there are a lot of w204 in inventory and they are also having trouble unloading those.

I'm not raining on anybody's parade. If the c400 was priced around 54000$ out the door like it is in the USA then I would be all over it but at 78000$, I have to really think long and hard.

Ryan_U

Believe it or not but I forgot to add the fees that the dealer charges. 2400$ Freight and destination, 40$ tire tax, 100 a/c tax, 400$ publicity fee, 35$ registration fee... which actually prices the car above 81000$...

Eilers

Point being? We could all talk endlessly about things we would buy if it was 33% off price. (We have been here before)

I am no expert on politics or social economics, but I assume the 15% sales tax you complain about , is not added by your dealer but by law. I assume this tax is used to pay for the cost of running the Country of Canada? Again i am no expert, but I belive US citizens does not have the same level of Social security as you enjoy in Canada?

If the car is not for you then why hang around his forum, harping on about percieved issues.

coladin

I don't know why Canadians are making a big deal about the price. Go price out a 335xi and an Audi S4, comparably equipped. They are all in the same ballpark. Them , for those who do it, try leasing the other two with their crappy rates and residuals. Next, sit in the BMW. No comparison. The C class, right now, is in another league compared to the competition and frankly to be expected for a brand new car.


What are you going to get in Canada for 54k? The C400 starts at low 50s...

Ryan_U

Eilers, point being is that the c400 is not selling in Canada because it is too expensive and that if the c450 replaces the c400 and it is even more expensive, Mercedes will sell even less in Canada.

You've added nothing to the discussion except accuse me of having alternate motives.

Sales tax are of course mandated by the government but they influence the final price of the car. If the car manufacturer adds 15% to the price of the car just because it is sold in Canada and then also doesn't give any rebates and then you add taxes it does price the car out of range. For example, the rear spoiler is sold 300$ in the US but it 555$ in Canada and I don't think Mercedes is giving the extra profit to go towards our health care.

I mentioned that I am interested in this car and that is why I am here but I don't have to justify my presence to you. Let me ask you this though, if the car cost you 80000$, would you consider buying a c400? Would you consider buying a c450 at lets say 85000$? Do you think I might have the right to find that high?

Germancar1

Where in the world are you all getting these prices from?

M

Eilers

I genuinely do not get your motivations for being here. Why are you focusing on a car which you can't either afford or is willing to pay the price for?

This forum is by nature, intended for W/S205 owners and for anyone with intent to buy one.

You can obviously stay as long as you please, but anyone who comes here and then decides not to buy the car, should not have any good reasons to hang around. Reading your earlier posts, you clearly have a lot more issues with this car besides the price. So I have to assume that you are currently here primarily to rain on someones else's parade.

Belive me, there are a few of that type around already!

c4004matic

My dealer hasnt had any (0) on the lot and Im the only order. I wouldnt be surprised if many potential buyers dont even know the model even exists! Usually the promoted car is the most expensive model, with the C it has been exactly the opposite. I wonder if Mercedes has bee too worried about cannibalizing sales from the E. Personally I would since the C400 is in general a much nicer car than the present E. Its much faster handles better offers the same comfort up front, not to mention interior styling which makes the E geriatric in comparison. Unless you use the rear seat for adults routinely its a much "better" car, for now, of course. As soon as the E is refreshed, the MB lineup should be back to its "normal" "stratification"

synaptik

I see very few C400s in Vancouver, which has a fairly high concentration of luxury vehicles per capita. Canada's the average income is no more than US but prices on everything is routinely 10-15% higher, something we just have to live with in our daily lives. So yes, the C400 is expensive, but no more so than the comparably optioned 335/s4. Both Audi and BMW are offering better discounts but MB's residuals are quite attractive.

I think the problem is that the last C class was junk and really turned everyone off from it. The reaction I get when talking to people is that the "C" can't match the 3 series, which certainly true of the e90 generation. So, the new C300/400 doesn't have the cachet to demand $64,000 loaded as the 335 can.

Eilers

I guess i must have seen too much TV possibly Michael Moore related.... I was sure that living in Canada, meant (like in western Europe) that you paid more taxes, but then you didn't have to worry about a lot of things, which US citizens had to buy insurance for, or pay for. (education, health care etc)

Reading this, i guess the Canadians are having it really bad.. no benefits compared to US, only higher prices on cars.

DameMD

Also with the new published hp/tq numbers, the c450 "WILL" be more than a .1-.2 0-60 and 1/4 mile difference.

367 horsepower and 383 pound-feet of torque is a big difference and definitely worth the wait. Hopefully, a good tune would get that car 400+ torque.

JButtonMCL

I'm not too sure about sales in terms of numbers but from what I've noticed around Vancouver, the W205's doesn't seem to be flooding the market(unlike the W204's).

Maybe people are garaging it or waiting til the weather gets better to purchase, who knows.

The price premium we pay for vehicles in Canada compared to the US is crazy. I'm actually hoping the sales continue to be slow for the W205's, so Merc is forced to offer some crazy discounts and interest rates for them.

c4004matic

Interest rates in the US are less than 2%

c4004matic

For those that were wondering if the 400 drivetrain was going away this year.
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...nt=model-specs

Glyn M Ruck

Remember the E is built in Germany & will follow global practice. What Tuscaloosa does might prove different.

c4004matic

True, but the engines used here come from Germany, all they do here is put it in the car. We will soon know. It would also be weird that they would equip their brand new E with a lesser engine than its cheaper sibling.

floridadriver

From info out there, the odds are not in your favor that USA will keep the "not as well received as expected" C400. Who knows, MBUSA does kooky stuff sometimes.

Still leaves original post, unless someone has a more immediate desire for the car in its higher HP/heavier version, or already at the top of their budget to stretch to the C450, not really a reason from the info released that one would pick the C400 over C450.

I imagine some the few who got into the C400 before C450 replacement was announced rapidly trading up, so should there may be some real good CPO C400 bargains soon.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes ~ the bigger engines come from Germany. The smaller engines are built in the Nissan NA engine plant for fitment at Tuscaloosa.

As mentioned above. MBUSA does some strange things.

Mark's M

Sadly these are the realities of retail pricing in Canada. But it's a misnomer to add in the mandatory taxes and imply the car costs $80k CDN. Yeah, at the end of the day you gotta pay your taxes but so does everyone else. I've spec'd out a fully jammed C400 at approx. $65k CDN which is retail list. This doesn't include the additional freight, bs taxes and our 13% gov't tax. Taxes are generally non negotiable lol but the list price and some of the dealer charges are so.....at the end of the day all I'm worried about are the negotiables. And if I can work off between 5 and 6% from the list, it's probably a good day.

Now...back on track and the reason I joined MB World. I've owned BMW's, many of them, for more than 30 years. I'm an enthusiast and track at least once per year. A year and a half ago I got tired of the money BMW wasn't giving me for my trades and threatened to go to MB. They said I'd never switch. Now I own 2 of them because the Benz dealer was fantastic with my trades. Long story short, my daily driver is the C350 4Matic. It's a tank and the quality is brilliant. Same goes for the dog hauler GLK. Not quite the drivers cars that my BMW's have been and thus the reason for posting here. I want a drivers car again so I'm waiting patiently for the NAIAS debut of the C450. I'm obviously considering the C63 as well but the price might be more than I'm willing to pay. If MB does to their AMG Performance line what BMW did to their M Performance equivalent (I use the M235 and M235 xDrive as examples because they are brilliant), then I have no doubt the C450 will be equally so. The stakes are high and MB isn't stupid.

Another important criteria for me as a daily driver is the security of AWD. And I don't restrict the benefits to snow. I'm an aggressive (safely aggressive to be clear) driver and have benefitted from my AWD cars year round. I don't want to get into the usual BMW forum arguments about AWD not being suitable for a performance car so please don't attack me on this one. Yet another reason why I'm hoping the C450 will shine...perhaps a little 4Matic tweaking by the AMG folks to accompany their suspension and brake upgrades will be in order? If so, thank-you AMG!! It'll help with the decision.

Anyways, fingers crossed. I loved the C400 when I drove it...miles ahead of my current C350. But even with the airmatic agility setting dialed in to the ultimate, I could feel that it wasn't quite "there for me" if you can understand. I could have bought the car on the spot and probably would have been very happy with it. But I'm looking for ecstatic again so I'm going to wait patiently. I'm number 1 on my dealers list for the C450 and number 2 for a C63 so I'm prepared to attack on either front lol.

Thanks for reading people.

Jeffy

I'm with you Mark on the AWD. I wasn't a fan of it at first going from C350 and E350 RWD to E350 4Matic. But getting into a 4Matic (CLS550) with proper power really opened my eyes. I can be more aggressive (faster) and have larger safety margin hustling my CLS550 4Matic up my favorite curvy back road versus our same powered E550 Cabriolet. Also, off the line is just stupid easy with the 4Matic - I can beat my coworker's '14 SL550 0-60mph every time just simply because that RWD 550 doesn't have enough traction to make a good launch.

As for BMW vs. MB... It seems Mercedes just quite doesn't have the same level of driving experience when push comes to shove as BMW, but there are other qualities that I like better in MB. I hope AMG has some decent influence on the pending C450 to enhance its driving experience and make it a great success. I wonder, is the C450 even going to offered in 4Matic?

Mark's M

The C450 with 4Matic will be the 1st AMG Performance car off the line when it arrives end of Q3 or early Q4 next year. I'm not sure if a RWD version will be following in 2016. And your points about the everyday advantages of AWD are exactly what I was talking about. One of my cars until recently was an '11 M3 so I'm not adverse to the performance benefits of RWD. But AWD in the right car with the right amount of power, as you described, can be similarly effective from a performance standpoint. It's all in the AWD tuning and the suspension it's matched with. I hope this new AMG Performance arm of Mercedes gets the car right, right out of the box. Damm....I wish an insider would leak some info, the wait for Detroit is killing me.

Ryan_U

I am still interested in the c450 as I want a sports sedan with some civility and this Mercedes might just pull that off. I'm just waiting for pricing.