Glyn M Ruck

In South Africa the Germans do kill the Japanese luxury brands. Lexus, Infinity etc sales are pathetic even though the cars come fully loaded standard at very competitive pricing.

Germancar1

Interesting. Here Lexus is consistently in the top 3 in sales, after they held the #1 spot for like 11 years. Acura is a joke and Inifiniti isn't far from being one.


M

Glyn M Ruck

Yeah! With VW as no one seller here & Toyota number two I think it erks them that no one wants their Lexus line if they can have Rings, Star or Rondel on the grill. This country is very Eurocentric though.

floridadriver

Here German cars have reputation of fun to drive and luxurious, but deservably poor reliability, and nickel and dime costs for what other car companies even in the economy range give you.

bwoodbmw

Again... lots refusing to admit the C400 looks to be going away.... there have been numerous reports that the 450 is replacing the 400 and I haven't seen any evidence or reports that say the 400 is sticking around. It is a fine german tradition to run 1 year models... BMW did it with the E90 330i

coladin

From Insider Car News yesterday:


The car on the right appears to be the rumored C450 AMG Sport that has been spotted testing around Europe, which will bridge the gap between the current C400 with the AMG Sport Package and the Mercedes-AMG C63

Germancar1

Yep I saw that, and I've seen other articles that say the exact opposite. All the big magazines say that the C400 goes away so we'll just have to see which source is right.

M

coladin

The articles that I have read, including the big mags, all state about bridging the gap from 329bhp to 503 bhp with this model. You cannot "bridge" a gap if you don't have the other side of the bridge, which is the C400. I haven't seen anyone state they are bridging a gap between 241 bhp and 503bhp.


Besides, why would all C400 owners want to be subjected to the Sport line? It doesn't make any sens for everyone who doesn't want a turbo 4 to have an AMG-type vehicle, as diluted as it may be.

c4004matic

Pig headedness is always associated with reading impairment. They cant get it that the 300-400 "normal" series is going to be around for a while. The 450 AMG sport is simply for AMG wannabes that cant afford the real thing. I bet you the C63 AMG is going to ring fully equipped in the 100K realm. The S version adds another 10-15K.

DameMD

Wow I actually agree with C4004matic.

I too read the same article stating that bridging the gap should mean AMG Sport line c450 will be in-between the c400 & c63. Meaning c400 - c450 - c63. If the c450 is to replace the c400 then there has to be a c500 in the works that we don't know about. Doesn't make since to force buyers to either choose a luxury or sport model c300 with 241 horsepower or jump right up to a c450 with 367hp. That's like a 100+ horsepower jump just between c300 and c450 which is truly ridiculous.

Again the c450 ///AMG model is to battle the S4 and up coming M Sport line from BMW. While the c300/c400 battles the BMW 328/335 and Audi A4 and Caddy ATS.

dreamerak

I don't know if the C400 will be replaced by the C450, but Car and Driver says it will be. They are #1 in US market. 39 days till Detroit...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/c-whats...oupe-and-more/

Glyn M Ruck

This is an incorrect assumption. Focus group output shows that there is a distinct part of the market that thinks that AMG *******ises the Benz cars. They want much of the AMG performance without the AMG, ****, wind & noise & some of the flair. The 450 is for them

Not everbody is a boy racer.

Germancar1

Don't know what you're been reading, but like I said before, the big magazines say differently.


http://blog.caranddriver.com/c-whats...oupe-and-more/


So like I said before, we'll see which source is right. I'd trust what C&D and MT says before some readers digest like site.

If anything it appears to me that they're going the Audi route here. The regular A4 with a 4-cylinder and the S4 with the V6. C300, C450. I really don't care either way, but you don't know for sure, no one does.

M

Germancar1

Honest question, what do you have against them doing a C450? What difference does it make to you? You really think Mercedes is going to sell a C400 for 50K and then a C450 for 60-65K and a C63 for 100K?

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Dabo

I think Germancar1 is correct here.

When I went to my dealer to ask about ordering a C400 he told me that it was no longer possible; C400 production is scheduled to stop in late January and all remaining build orders have already reached what he called, the "freeze point", where no more changes can be requested.

When you combine this information with the rumors about the C450 "recipe" (how truly close it is to a C400) and the fact that the Alabama production plant's list of models includes the C300 and C450 but not the C400...... It's really starting to appear as if the correct C450 rumors are the ones that say it's replacing the C400.

DameMD

I take back my comment earlier. From the car and driver article, it looks like Mercedes "IS" taking the Audi route. The c450 will be out by spring/summer to completely replace the c400. The Audi A4 is currently a 2.0T and the S4 is 3.0 supercharged with over 100+ hp. I wonder why Mercedes is taking this route. The price of a A4 is really cheap and you pay almost 10-15K more for a S4. Mercedes doing this tactic will force a lot of customers to buy a c300 or other lower models of the c class. Consumers are pretty much stuck with c300 or big upgrade to c450 ///AMG which is dumb. They will probably charge $60k+ for this which will definitely push me towards BMW 340i when it comes out. I wonder how long they will keep this up before canceling the AMG Sport line due to poor sales.

Mercedes is not known for handling and I don't see how adding bigger brakes and better suspension on the Sport line will compete with the new M sport or S line of BMW & Audi.

Dabo

I would head right for the new C63 if it were going to be offered with AWD, but it's not. That leaves the C450 as my next best option.

synaptik

Isn't it obvious? Look at his username. Guy probably bought a c400 and doesn't want his car to be a one year wonder.

I've been lurking on these boards for a month or so and 70% of his posts has to do with the c450. First it was denying its existence, now it's denying it replacing the c400...i've had half a mind to register as "c450amg"

Jinzen

Seriously, the C400 is going away. MB is not going to make a C300, C400, C450 AND a C63 AMG.

The C400 comes with the Sport Package standard anyway, so C400 buyers will certainly buy a C450 instead. AMG styling, brakes, suspension etc and tuned engine for $1-3k more.

From Car & Driver:
"C450 AMG Performance: This car is exactly what it sounds like: a BMW M Performance–like bridge model between the regular C-classes and the skull-obliterating C63. It will get an uprated version of the C400’s 329-hp twin-turbo V-6, likely good for 360 horses or so and spinning all four wheels via 4MATIC all-wheel drive. Expect all manner of sport-tastic styling touches, more-aggressive brakes and suspension, and copious AMG logos inside and out. (The name could also be AMG Sport.) The sheet will be pulled off at next January’s Detroit auto show, and the car will go on sale in the fall. Here’s the kicker: It will supplant the C400 completely after a year on the market."

Glyn M Ruck

Note ~ This is a US peculiarity. Not global.

Jinzen

Well I don't think that's true... The reason the C400 and C450 won't co-exist is that they're basically the same car, no reason for the C400 to exist at almost the same price point as the upgrade C450.

However, Mercedes will also have:

C350 Plug in hybrid
C250? Diesel

And then Coupes will come in ..

Germancar1

Correct. I'm sure you all have models we don't get now.

M

Germancar1

You don't think what is true? We're in agreement. The coupe and other sedan derivatives and the cabriolet are going to seriously up Mercedes' sales vs the BMW 3/4-Series cars.

M

coladin

Thanks for the find, somehow I missed that and I usually trust C&D...


So it looks like if they are released in fall as a 2016 model as a bridge, it will be the only V6 model in the fall of 2017.

C400DW

Confirmed this with my Dealer this morning as my C400 build date was scheduled for January. I have since cancelled and will wait to see what happens in the upcoming months. Really disappointed how this was handled by MB...