AMG Pack Agility Control vs. Sport Suspension
#26
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2012 C250 Sport
I have the base steel suspension. I won't comment on the other choices, but I can say based on my own experience that the "code 485 base suspension" is not a soft suspension setup. It is actually quite firm and does offer excellent control of body motion. The car does sit fairly high but, certainly here, that's okay given the many poor roads, gravel, and snow I have to deal with.
I test drove a car w/ the base suspension. I think the wheels might've been 18-in, though, b/c the wheels were not in the style of the base car. Based on my limited test drive, the car felt significantly "lighter" and yet more compliant than the W204....
Glyn, I thought the W204 had a less sophisticated front and rear suspension than the W203?
#27
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W204 was in many ways old wine in new bottles.
The frills were damper technology & the availability of Advanced Agility Control ~ active/switchable
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 01-01-2015 at 02:04 PM.
#28
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W205 250cdi 4matic, amg ext/int, 485 suspension
Thank you all for your valuable inputs.
@Glyn, I've put some pressure on local MB Romania representatives - they should come with some cars to test on Monday as close as possible in terms of specs with my next car.
The posted photos are not looking too bad.
@Stan, alsyli, your points are valid and might be very useful to me as well: get an increased ground clearance for the snow we can get here. Hopefully, handling in bends is still good enough - no racing car, but still fine, better then my w204.
@All, understand your point on testing and get my preference, however please understand the context here ( different from California ):
- no W205 sold with Airmatic in the market;
- most cars for test drives are C220 CDI BlueEfficiency which is a wonderful car in term of handling, consumption, etc and sells the car very well. Unfortunately, in my case, I cannot go with RWD only - some years with heavy snow and this is my only car.
I'll keep you posted on the progress. Hopefully on Monday I'll have more information / test drives and see if I have or not to change something.
Thankfully,
amo
@ Glyn, as per local representatives, production will start moving to SA. All cars for local market are going to be produced there by March 2015.
@Glyn, I've put some pressure on local MB Romania representatives - they should come with some cars to test on Monday as close as possible in terms of specs with my next car.
The posted photos are not looking too bad.
@Stan, alsyli, your points are valid and might be very useful to me as well: get an increased ground clearance for the snow we can get here. Hopefully, handling in bends is still good enough - no racing car, but still fine, better then my w204.
@All, understand your point on testing and get my preference, however please understand the context here ( different from California ):
- no W205 sold with Airmatic in the market;
- most cars for test drives are C220 CDI BlueEfficiency which is a wonderful car in term of handling, consumption, etc and sells the car very well. Unfortunately, in my case, I cannot go with RWD only - some years with heavy snow and this is my only car.
I'll keep you posted on the progress. Hopefully on Monday I'll have more information / test drives and see if I have or not to change something.
Thankfully,
amo
@ Glyn, as per local representatives, production will start moving to SA. All cars for local market are going to be produced there by March 2015.
Last edited by oachim; 01-01-2015 at 03:43 PM.
#29
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If you get a SA car you have nothing to worry about. They build them beautifully. Frequently win the quality round robin vs. Bremen & Sindelfingen.
#30
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2012 C250 Sport
@All, understand your point on testing and get my preference, however please understand the context here ( different from California ):
- no W205 sold with Airmatic in the market;
- most cars for test drives are C220 CDI BlueEfficiency which is a wonderful car in term of handling, consumption, etc and sells the car very well. Unfortunately, in my case, I cannot go with RWD only - some years with heavy snow and this is my only car.
- no W205 sold with Airmatic in the market;
- most cars for test drives are C220 CDI BlueEfficiency which is a wonderful car in term of handling, consumption, etc and sells the car very well. Unfortunately, in my case, I cannot go with RWD only - some years with heavy snow and this is my only car.
#33
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W205 250cdi 4matic, amg ext/int, 485 suspension
In my case, if everything goes as agreed with local representations, the car will be produced late Jan in Bremen. Issue with SA might be delivery time as I need my car by end of Feb.
In case I'll get to the conclusion base suspension is not for me, delivery date is an additional constraint that might not allow me to configure the car with AIRMATIC. Users on motor-talk.de are saying cars with AIRMATIC option are delayed.
Question regarding base suspension: is it calibrated depending on engine, car's weight, RWD vs. AWD, Line, etc or same settings applies to all types of cars ?
I'm asking this to understand if dealer will provide me car with base suspension but not 250CDI 4MATIC, is the test going to be relevant ?
Thankfully,
Ovidiu
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 01-02-2015 at 08:07 AM.
#34
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The test will be pretty much relevant. Benz tries to make all models with the same suspension as similar as possible. Ride height will be the same as spring rates are increased with heavier engines.
Weight distribution is another matter. You are always aware of cars with heavier engines as it effects things like turn in. Driver reactions to this are different. Some find lighter engined cars feel more nimble. I find heavy engined Benz cars feel more planted. It's a matter of taste.
Weight distribution is another matter. You are always aware of cars with heavier engines as it effects things like turn in. Driver reactions to this are different. Some find lighter engined cars feel more nimble. I find heavy engined Benz cars feel more planted. It's a matter of taste.
#35
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W205 250cdi 4matic, amg ext/int, 485 suspension
The test will be pretty much relevant. Benz tries to make all models with the same suspension as similar as possible. Ride height will be the same as spring rates are increased with heavier engines.
Weight distribution is another matter. You are always aware of cars with heavier engines as it effects things like turn in. Driver reactions to this are different. Some find lighter engined cars feel more nimble. I find heavy engined Benz cars feel more planted. It's a matter of taste.
Weight distribution is another matter. You are always aware of cars with heavier engines as it effects things like turn in. Driver reactions to this are different. Some find lighter engined cars feel more nimble. I find heavy engined Benz cars feel more planted. It's a matter of taste.
Checked the weight of the W205 250cdi 4matic:
- 15kg/33lbs more than c400 4matic
- 160kg/350lbs more than c220 cdi blue efficiency !?!
- 30kg/66lbs more than C300 4 MATIC.
Strangely, it weighs ONLY 15 kg less than my current W204 same engine.
Q: Where is the weight reduction all reviews and sales people are speaking about ?
Stan, I should experience almost the same driving experience you have with your C300 4MATIC.
Thankfully,
Ovidiu
Last edited by oachim; 01-03-2015 at 03:41 AM.
#36
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The weight reduction is in greater use of aluminium & high strength steel in the body. Also some aluminium suspension components that used to be steel.
Here are the major changes:
Here are the major changes:
#37
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W205 250cdi 4matic, amg ext/int, 485 suspension
Thanks Glyn,
Unfortunately these improvements are not having important impact on car's weight. As I mentioned:
- 250cdi 4matic w205 is only 15 kg less than the same w204 car
- even the very efficient c220cdi blue efficiency model is only 50 kg less than the same w204.
Personally I haven't found a configuration close to 100kg difference.
My point here is that a better handling of w205 vs w204 would not come from the reduced weight of the car - for sure NOT in my case - but hopefully from a better design and more modern suspension system.
I would appreciate any link to explanation of the new suspension. Comparison with the old passive agility control is also welcome.
Thankfully,
Amo
Unfortunately these improvements are not having important impact on car's weight. As I mentioned:
- 250cdi 4matic w205 is only 15 kg less than the same w204 car
- even the very efficient c220cdi blue efficiency model is only 50 kg less than the same w204.
Personally I haven't found a configuration close to 100kg difference.
My point here is that a better handling of w205 vs w204 would not come from the reduced weight of the car - for sure NOT in my case - but hopefully from a better design and more modern suspension system.
I would appreciate any link to explanation of the new suspension. Comparison with the old passive agility control is also welcome.
Thankfully,
Amo
#38
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More on Body of W205:
W205 Steel suspension:
W205 Airmatic:
I suggest you Google sites like AutoEvolution for discussion of Benz latest 4 platforms.
The old passive Agility Control damping from the W204 is carried over in refined form to W205.
The old Active Advanced Agility Control is not carried over to W205 (although as I have reported it might be in the future). At present it is replaced by Airmatic.
W205 Steel suspension:
W205 Airmatic:
I suggest you Google sites like AutoEvolution for discussion of Benz latest 4 platforms.
The old passive Agility Control damping from the W204 is carried over in refined form to W205.
The old Active Advanced Agility Control is not carried over to W205 (although as I have reported it might be in the future). At present it is replaced by Airmatic.
#39
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W205 250cdi 4matic, amg ext/int, 485 suspension
Glyn,
Thanks for the photos.
2 points:
1/ if not in the total weight, I hope the new chassis will pay off at least in weight distribution making the car better to drive;
2/ airmatic seems to me much more complex system, something I would not buy if steel suspension delivers enough stability, driving experience, comfort.
The great news today is local dealer call saying I'm invited to test a C250CDI 4 MATIC AMG Line Exterior, base suspension , 18" wheels, same with my current configuration in their ordering system. I don't know how, but they found it !
Of course, I'll report back on Monday evening my thoughts. If you want me to test or check something on that car, just let me know.
amo
Thanks for the photos.
2 points:
1/ if not in the total weight, I hope the new chassis will pay off at least in weight distribution making the car better to drive;
2/ airmatic seems to me much more complex system, something I would not buy if steel suspension delivers enough stability, driving experience, comfort.
The great news today is local dealer call saying I'm invited to test a C250CDI 4 MATIC AMG Line Exterior, base suspension , 18" wheels, same with my current configuration in their ordering system. I don't know how, but they found it !
Of course, I'll report back on Monday evening my thoughts. If you want me to test or check something on that car, just let me know.
amo
Last edited by oachim; 01-03-2015 at 03:30 PM.
#40
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Good ~ I'm pleased you will be testing what you ordered. It's the only way. Give us your impressions.
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W205 250cdi 4matic, amg ext/int, 485 suspension
Tested configuration
- W205 250CDI 4 MATIC
- AMG Exterior Line
- Suspension: base (code 485) - not available in all countries with the AMG line
- Interior was Exclusive basic
- Bremen production plant.
Context
- unable to test AIRMATIC
- unable to get suspension Agility Control code 677 as it is not fitted on this engine / model.
In short, the conclusion is: I'll go / stick with base suspension, no reason to think ( without testing ) to AIRMATIC.
Longer version
Comfort
- impressive given
- 18" wheels
- run flat tyres
- car's weight ( ~ 1650 kg )
- much better than my current w204, 17" wheel, non-run flat tyres
Stability, body roll
- almost no body roll ( probably due to run flat tyres, tyres dimension 225 front, 245 rear)
- stability in bends - good, planted due to the heavy engine / body
- overall, better than my current w204 ( suspension code 677 - agility control lowered by 15 mm)
Ground clearance [ confirmed by MB DE Expert ] - important given the climate here, winter, snow and road quality
- 83 mm w204 vs. 88 mm w205 (full load) - +5 mm
- +15 mm base suspension (code 485) vs. lowered suspension (code 677)
- cumulated, +2 cm !! more than my current w204
So, base suspension was my choice based on / due to:
- available configurations to test
- available suspensions to be installed on my engine / model
- local env. conditions:
- 4 seasons, snow in all winters, etc
- quality of roads
- running costs ( base suspension vs . AIRMATIC)
- also, the enhanced quality of the W205 base chassis and suspension
- most probably, other subjective reasons
Other aspects I've noticed ( compared with my current w204 ):
- engine noise is reduced; I know all the negative reviews on that, however, for me, it is improved over the previous model
- 7 G tranmission - it is the same, however I find it a little bit more responsive; agility select work on that; overall better
- wind noise - similar to w204 - glad I'll get the acoustic glass
- Garmin / Audio 20 tested for 10 minutes - it seems reasonable good.
In a nutshell, good work from MB, better in all aspects (7 years gap). Chassis is great, over performing the previous version in every single metric.
If any specific question, let me know
Regards,
amo
Last edited by oachim; 01-05-2015 at 03:09 PM.
#43
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Glad I can report back.
Tested configuration
Context
In short, the conclusion is: I'll go / stick with base suspension, no reason to think ( without testing ) to AIRMATIC.
Longer version
So, base suspension was my choice based on / due to:
Other aspects I've noticed ( compared with my current w204 ):
In a nutshell, good work from MB, better in all aspects (7 years gap). Chassis is great, over performing the previous version in every single metric.
If any specific question, let me know
Regards,
amo
Tested configuration
- W205 250CDI 4 MATIC
- AMG Exterior Line
- Suspension: base (code 485) - not available in all countries with the AMG line
- Interior was Exclusive basic
- Bremen production plant.
Context
- unable to test AIRMATIC
- unable to get suspension Agility Control code 677 as it is not fitted on this engine / model.
In short, the conclusion is: I'll go / stick with base suspension, no reason to think ( without testing ) to AIRMATIC.
Longer version
Comfort
- impressive given
- 18" wheels
- run flat tyres
- car's weight ( ~ 1650 kg )
- much better than my current w204, 17" wheel, non-run flat tyres
Stability, body roll
- almost no body roll ( probably due to run flat tyres, tyres dimension 225 front, 245 rear)
- stability in bends - good, planted due to the heavy engine / body
- overall, better than my current w204 ( suspension code 677 - agility control lowered by 15 mm)
Ground clearance [ confirmed by MB DE Expert ] - important given the climate here, winter, snow and road quality
- 83 mm w204 vs. 88 mm w205 (full load) - +5 mm
- +15 mm base suspension (code 485) vs. lowered suspension (code 677)
- cumulated, +2 cm !! more than my current w204
So, base suspension was my choice based on / due to:
- available configurations to test
- available suspensions to be installed on my engine / model
- local env. conditions:
- 4 seasons, snow in all winters, etc
- quality of roads
- running costs ( base suspension vs . AIRMATIC)
- also, the enhanced quality of the W205 base chassis and suspension
- most probably, other subjective reasons
Other aspects I've noticed ( compared with my current w204 ):
- engine noise is reduced; I know all the negative reviews on that, however, for me, it is improved over the previous model
- 7 G tranmission - it is the same, however I find it a little bit more responsive; agility select work on that; overall better
- wind noise - similar to w204 - glad I'll get the acoustic glass
- Garmin / Audio 20 tested for 10 minutes - it seems reasonable good.
In a nutshell, good work from MB, better in all aspects (7 years gap). Chassis is great, over performing the previous version in every single metric.
If any specific question, let me know
Regards,
amo