Updates: The MB-Tex Problem
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Ontario
'13 C350, '13 GLK250
Here's some correspondence from two chemists I know:
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 1
2017 GLC300 4MATIC; 2015 c400
Well...that's super concerning. How would we even go about finding out what the substance is?
Here's some correspondence from two chemists I know:
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 53
Likes: 1
From: Sweden
A180 / On order S205
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Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Here's some correspondence from two chemists I know:
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jan 7, 2015 at 11:30 AM.
Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 199
Likes: 2
From: Midwest
2015 C 300
1. I view this as more than a typical warranty fix. It is egregious and disgusting.
2. I don’t think the recommended dealer fix is adequate. I’m concerned the chemicals also have leaked into the seating padding, so just replacing the covers doesn’t eliminate the substance from the car.
3. Potential health issues.
4. I’m appalled by their official recommended fix for unsold cars (i.e. just wash it off with soap and water). They are intentionally hiding a known issue so that an un-assuming customer buys a car but won’t find out about the issue until after they buy it. This is completely unacceptable service in my opinion.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 356
Likes: 13
From: San Francisco, CA
'16 GL550, '12 C350
Here's some correspondence from two chemists I know:
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
"I'm a chemist and I currently run IT for a large company that is involved in the plastic industry logistics business. Does the ooze have any smell to it? There are some nasty chemicals that are used in the plastics (vinyl) manufacturing process. This may be an unhealthy situation for humans to be exposed to."
"You should find out what that "oily substance" is from M-B. If it's what I suspect it might be (one of the ortho-phthalates) you should know that it could be both an endocrine disruptor (keep children away) and potential carcinogen. Some plasticizers are OK, but the low molecular weight phthalates are nasty and banned in children toys and juvenile products. These chemicals are used in plastic to make it feel more flexible - they don't bond on a molecular level with the polymer and thus can leach out. For that kind of "leaking" the chemical could be all through the seat padding. So, depends on what the substance is to determine the amount remediation that should occur."
I had not really considered the health issue to be a factor, and it may not be, but this is something worth pursuing if for no other reason than to assure those of us affected that this is not a health issue.
Listen, this is exactly what I noted earlier. I would stay away from that ooze until you know 100% it is safe, it's getting absorbed through your skin every time you clean/touch it regardless if it is toxic or not. But my gut says it's toxic no matter how you slice and dice it. Especially after chemicals react and change from their original structure due to heat and/or cold.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 356
Likes: 13
From: San Francisco, CA
'16 GL550, '12 C350
Stan et al,
You can clearly see that the ooze has absorbed into the seat belt - how does that get sorted? If it's getting onto the seatbelt, then it's getting into your clothing. You may not be able to see or smell it. But it's likely there. It also means without a doubt that it's soaking the foam supporting the covering. And what ever residue remains after cleaning and/or replacing the covering, the foam will still continue to emit a silent side-effect from the chemical reaction.
And btw, does anyone know why when I attach a photo it displays this way? Is it a setting I need to modify?
You can clearly see that the ooze has absorbed into the seat belt - how does that get sorted? If it's getting onto the seatbelt, then it's getting into your clothing. You may not be able to see or smell it. But it's likely there. It also means without a doubt that it's soaking the foam supporting the covering. And what ever residue remains after cleaning and/or replacing the covering, the foam will still continue to emit a silent side-effect from the chemical reaction.
And btw, does anyone know why when I attach a photo it displays this way? Is it a setting I need to modify?
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 312
Likes: 11
From: Norway
2015 C 180 AMG Sportline W205
'Merica.... land of the lawsuits....
For those owners who does have this issue, i feel for you, and it sholdn't be like this at all. This is poor quality control from Mercedes. They should fix the problem quickly, and give you a good loaner car while waiting for the fix.
But if it was a risk for the owners Health, they would immediately have recalled the cars. Demanding free leather interior, and huge compensations is just greedy...
We all get exposed to chemicals and radiations the entire day, don't blow this out of proportions.
For those owners who does have this issue, i feel for you, and it sholdn't be like this at all. This is poor quality control from Mercedes. They should fix the problem quickly, and give you a good loaner car while waiting for the fix.
But if it was a risk for the owners Health, they would immediately have recalled the cars. Demanding free leather interior, and huge compensations is just greedy...
We all get exposed to chemicals and radiations the entire day, don't blow this out of proportions.
Last edited by megaoctane; Jan 7, 2015 at 11:46 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 356
Likes: 13
From: San Francisco, CA
'16 GL550, '12 C350
Even if there is a loss dose or acceptable level of toxin for adults, it could be extremely damaging to children who are still developing - in their key milestones - and we all know kids don't like washing their hands - and once this stuff is on their hands they're touching their eyes, nose and mouth. As an adult, this doesn't overly concern me, but when it comes to children, it's a major concern of mine. And if I was Mercedes-Benz, this would be escalated to the highest level ASAP including a PR plan. Because this IS going to turn into a major class action lawsuit and could be as damaging to Mercedes as the self-launching Audi's in the 80s that almost put them out of business.
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
2015 C 400
Listen, this is exactly what I noted earlier. I would stay away from that ooze until you know 100% it is safe, it's getting absorbed through your skin every time you clean/touch it regardless if it is toxic or not. But my gut says it's toxic no matter how you slice and dice it. Especially after chemicals react and change from their original structure due to heat and/or cold.
While the issue is being attended to for people who have experienced it, I am wondering how does it affect people haven't experienced it yet? Is anyone proactively planning to contact MBUSA ? If this is a production issue from just one batch then won't an official recall for those specific cars help relieve some concerns ?
I live in Southern California and doubt if I would encounter extreme cold weather to trigger this issue (assuming that is the cause).
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 33
From: Whitefield, NH
2015 C300 Sport: Palladium, Premium, Multimedia, Leather, BLIS
Listen, this is exactly what I noted earlier. I would stay away from that ooze until you know 100% it is safe, it's getting absorbed through your skin every time you clean/touch it regardless if it is toxic or not. But my gut says it's toxic no matter how you slice and dice it. Especially after chemicals react and change from their original structure due to heat and/or cold.
I'm hoping they can clarify these issues, although I doubt the people I'll be talking to will have any answers.
A few days ago my wife's hands and feet started itching horribly. This was coincident with the onset of the worst of the seat leakage. No rash, no external signs of anything. We both attributed it to just winter dryness, but moisturizer has no effect. She drives more than I do, and has been in the car every day. I don't think this is related, but now I have a question in my mind.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,822
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From: Whitefield, NH
2015 C300 Sport: Palladium, Premium, Multimedia, Leather, BLIS
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 356
Likes: 13
From: San Francisco, CA
'16 GL550, '12 C350
I will have further contact with MB-USA this week, and I'll bring up the issue of health and the migration of the leakage into other areas.
I'm hoping they can clarify these issues, although I doubt the people I'll be talking to will have any answers.
A few days ago my wife's hands and feet started itching horribly. This was coincident with the onset of the worst of the seat leakage. No rash, no external signs of anything. We both attributed it to just winter dryness, but moisturizer has no effect. She drives more than I do, and has been in the car every day. I don't think this is related, but now I have a question in my mind.
I'm hoping they can clarify these issues, although I doubt the people I'll be talking to will have any answers.
A few days ago my wife's hands and feet started itching horribly. This was coincident with the onset of the worst of the seat leakage. No rash, no external signs of anything. We both attributed it to just winter dryness, but moisturizer has no effect. She drives more than I do, and has been in the car every day. I don't think this is related, but now I have a question in my mind.
I would demand a loaner (non W205 C-class) ASAP with snow tires and have them take that car in until all of this is sorted by corporate - not the dealership. That's extremely concerting what you have mentioned about the skin irritation. There could be a correlation there - don't risk it. It's not your problem. Don't feel bad, don't feel guilty, don't care about egg on your face. Get that thing out of your space.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I don't think one should panic until we know the facts. I do think somebody needs to ask the question of Benz.
All vinyls & plastics leach plasticisers/volatiles over their life & high exposure to UV. We have all been sitting in this fog for years.
What is different here is rate of leach, temperature at which it is happening & slow rate of evapouration.
All vinyls & plastics leach plasticisers/volatiles over their life & high exposure to UV. We have all been sitting in this fog for years.
What is different here is rate of leach, temperature at which it is happening & slow rate of evapouration.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,073
Likes: 85
From: San Francisco, CA
2017 E300
'Merica.... land of the lawsuits....
For those owners who does have this issue, i feel for you, and it sholdn't be like this at all. This is poor quality control from Mercedes. They should fix the problem quickly, and give you a good loaner car while waiting for the fix.
But if it was a risk for the owners Health, they would immediately have recalled the cars. Demanding free leather interior, and huge compensations is just greedy...
We all get exposed to chemicals and radiations the entire day, don't blow this out of proportions.
For those owners who does have this issue, i feel for you, and it sholdn't be like this at all. This is poor quality control from Mercedes. They should fix the problem quickly, and give you a good loaner car while waiting for the fix.
But if it was a risk for the owners Health, they would immediately have recalled the cars. Demanding free leather interior, and huge compensations is just greedy...
We all get exposed to chemicals and radiations the entire day, don't blow this out of proportions.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 33
From: Whitefield, NH
2015 C300 Sport: Palladium, Premium, Multimedia, Leather, BLIS
I don't think one should panic until we know the facts. I do think somebody needs to ask the question of Benz.
All vinyls & plastics leach plasticisers/volatiles over their life & high exposure to UV. We have all been sitting in this fog for years.
What is different here is rate of leach, temperature at which it is happening & slow rate of evapouration.
All vinyls & plastics leach plasticisers/volatiles over their life & high exposure to UV. We have all been sitting in this fog for years.
What is different here is rate of leach, temperature at which it is happening & slow rate of evapouration.
It's the abnormally high rate of leaching that is the issue and what, if any, effect that may have upon the occupants in a closed environment over an extended period of time. Hopefully, MB will eventually provide assurances that this stuff is neither toxic nor an irritant.
My confidence in the company's ability to deal with the issue, and its understanding of it, was undermined by what the TSB said regarding unsold cars in dealer inventory. Those of us affected by this defect know that washing the material with soapy water only provides temporary, and very short term, relief from the problem. Granted, it may finally dissipate given enough time, but it looks like that may take months. My build is almost 5 months old, and it's a big problem
Any way this finally works out, it's going to cost MB-USA millions of dollars since this batch of MB-Tex seems to have been in use from the start of US production through at least November. Very sad for both the company and the consumer.
Last edited by StanNH; Jan 7, 2015 at 12:17 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 356
Likes: 13
From: San Francisco, CA
'16 GL550, '12 C350
There's a less scientific level of gut risk assessment that can determine if a situation is worth taking more drastic measures. There are members posting photos of their issue which on a gut risk assessment scale of 1 to 10 puts them in a range of 3. But Stan and another member's photos clearly put their risk assessment at 10. I personally would not touch the interior of those cars and would have them towed to the dealership for corporate analysis. As said earlier, this is not any fault of the owner, this is a corporate issue that needs to be resolved by them. I cannot for the life of me see how this extreme and almost massive residue oozing from their seats is not toxic. It's like something out of a horror film. It is a chemical "reaction" happening which is very different than a bonded chemical that doesn't change.
Last edited by Count Laszlo; Jan 7, 2015 at 12:20 PM.
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 79
Likes: 1
2017 GLC300 4MATIC; 2015 c400
I had to bring my car to the dealer and get a loaner. I can't risk having my under 1 year old child in this based on the assumption it's safe.
After this latest thaw/drive the seats look soaked.
After this latest thaw/drive the seats look soaked.
