hpilot

I felt the same way about the gear selector, but after using it for a while I learned to really love it. I would never want to go back now. You do know that for about $175 you can turn off start-stop permanently. I did, and it's great.

hpilot

What is the secret sauce in the Luxury Model that prevents you from noticing the engine has shut off? I don't hear the engine at idle either, but I sure know when it shuts down because I can no longer feel the engine vibration. Do you have some special engine mounts?

gfmohn

Even after taking a quick look at your more recent posts, I can't tell whether you have a Sport model or maybe a Luxury model with Sport trim bits. If you do not have a Luxury model, I would simply say that I expect a Luxury model to have softer motor mounts than a Sport model. (I am not a technician, so I cannot say for sure.) If you do have a Luxury model, then I do not know what to say. Maybe the same gremlins that slipped you a Sport suspension also slipped you Sport motor mounts! Full disclosure: my engine was rebuilt to correct The Dreaded Wrist Pin Problem. Maybe this results in an engine with some of the hand built and balanced advantages of an AMG engine. But I'm guessing. Help us out, you real MB technicians! Is there a difference between Sport and Luxury motor mounts?

hpilot

OK, that's interesting. I have a standard 2015 C300 4Matic Sedan with, as you say, sport suspension. It's reasonably smooth at idle, but I do know when it's running. You are right - since they just decided to add sport suspension for no reason, who knows what else they decided to just add.

Mike5215

Luxury cars are mechanically identical to the Base car. Differences are cosmetic (body kit, wheels, different interior color and material choices). Sport cars are mechanically identical to the Base car, with shorter springs, unless the car has AirMatic. Otherwise identical with cosmetic changes (body kit, wheels, seats with larger side bolsters, flat bottomed wheel, etc)

mcbc220

The Luxury does sit 15mm higher than the Base. This is a very hard to find fact, because MB is very vague about their suspension options, but the luxury has a different suspension code than the base.

However, I just drove both back to back today. I couldn't tell any difference between the two as far as handling. The luxury might have been slightly better over rougher roads, but it could have been my imagination because I was looking for it. I also couldn't tell that I was 15mm higher off the ground. I thought both cars handled great for what they are.

For anyone who likes the luxury styling but is wondering if they're giving some sportiness up as far as handling goes by not getting the base—you're not. You also get a much nicer looking interior with either the Lux or the Sport package than the base because you get MBTex armrests and dash.

gfmohn

So -- no difference in motor mounts between Sport and Luxury trims. When I returned home tonight with my wife, I left the engine running while I started to install the sunshade. I noticed a tiny amount of vibration in the seat back, but only because I was looking for it. My wife said she felt no vibration at all. I now recall that I routinely verify that I have turned off the engine by looking at the tachometer. Pretty smooth!(Mike5215, does "mechanically identical" mean the soundproofing is also the same?)

Mike5215

I think the whole lux/sport thing in the C started in the 204. The "lux" got a hood star, tamer bumpers and side skirts, smaller diameter wheels, burl wood trim and softer springs. The Sport got a pseudo AMG body kit and the usual accouterments. But there was no effort to make the lux quieter or more luxurious in any meaningful way, and of course the Sport was no quicker. There was no "base" 204 as far as I know.

I think lux is a concession to buyers who've come to expect a Mercedes to be stately and elegant, but in the US they make up a tiny fragment of 205 sales. I wouldn't be surprised if that iteration eventually disappears in the US altogether in subsequent generations.

mcbc220

I hate to admit it, but I think you're right. I personally love the stately, even stodgy grille and upright star, and I like my Mercedes to wear it with pride. I know that puts me in the minority. I don't care how the car drives—e.g., whether it's sportier or more like an S—I still want it to have the hood ornament. I fell in love with old-school Benzes, and damnit, I'm stuck in the past.

Anyway. Yeah, there was no "base" 204. I think the grill star base/sport W205 is a much sexier execution of the sport look than on the 205. The 204 looks like it was designed to be an old-school Mercedes and then got the star grille slapped on for the Americans. The 205 looks like it was designed from the ground up to look good without the luxe grille and star.

gfmohn

My W203 2007 C2804MATIC came in both Sport trim and the Luxury trim you see in both my Profile picture and the pictures in my Signature below. The "buyers who've come to expect a Mercedes to be stately and elegant" certainly describes me. It also describes my wife, who was born and raised in Germany and who did not come to the U.S. until middle-age. Her stereotype of Mercedes owners is one of two types. The first type is the fat, arrogant businessman in the fast lane of the Autobahn. (No sport here; the businessman doesn't drive. The Mercedes is chauffeur-driven.) The second type is the retired, minor government official (including teachers) driving his Mercedes at 70 kps (45 mph) on a secondary road. He saved all his life for his Mercedes, and he still has the same Mercedes 20 years later. (No sport here, either - he is wearing a fedora hat!) The retired, minor government official describes me, just in the U.S., not in Germany. When my wife was growing up in Germany, owning a Mercedes was a really big deal.She's still in awe that she can ride in her husband's Mercedes. To both of us, sport driving means driving a BMW. Of course, around where I live and for a long distance, so-called sport driving is just sport driving theater. I live on a country lane where a local independent Ferrari repair shop demos the Ferraris they have repaired or are selling. They blast it for a hundred yards and then back off. Then they drive like the Toyota Corollas of the old ladies in my elderly housing facility. The frontier is closed.

mcbc220

So much of the "sport" packages on so-called sport sedans amuses me to no end, because 90% of these cars will never be driven for sporting purposes or in a particularly sporty way. It's all marketing and packaging, a way to make people who bought a grocery getter and interstate hauler feel like their purchase proves they're still living on the edge. Witness BMW making the F30 the softest BMW yet, but advertising it with the slogan "Sport is standard" and getting rid of all the all-beige interior options because black is sportier.

foxberry

Agreed - & to an even larger extent, i have always found the whole "off-roading" abilities of today's SUVs hilarious. 90% of these SUVs are driven by soccer moms hauling kids back and forth to soccer games (& my wife is one of them!). How many people REALLY take their SUVs "off-roading"??

mcbc220

The Silicon Valley, where I live, is prime territory for moms driving gigantic Infiniti, Mercedes or Lexus SUVs that they can barely see out of, solo. I get a kick out of it until I'm stuck behind one on a one lane road.

Mike5215

My first Benz, and this may be romanticized thinking, was a superbly built, regal and refined 190E 2.6. It was solid, silent and rode better than anything I'd experienced. Without a doubt a much more substantial "baby Benz" than the 205.

My next Benz was many years later. A 2006 S500. Also a substantial, solid, beautifully driving car with the requisite hood star as a constant reminder that you were driving something special. A 2004 S430 after that. Great car.

My 2010 S550 was a bit of a disappointment. A lot of money for a car I liked a lot less than the previous 220s. Didn't like the seats as much. Definitely preferred the stereo in the 220.

The W205, which I enjoy a great deal, does not feel like a solid car. It seems unsubstantial and even a little cheap, but with a lovely veneer and loads of nifty gizmos. Ride is good but not great. The interior tends to groan and squeak.

Had I bought it rather than lease I might be disappointed but as something to play around with for a few years I'm happy with it.

I'm afraid the era of MB's that caused me to fall in love with them may have effectively ended a decade ago.

mcbc220

I feel this, completely. I'm younger than you are and haven't got to buy as many Benzes, but I've driven, been driven in, bought, or inherited some from the golden age. For whatever reason, nothing makes me as all-around happy to drive as an MB from the era you're referring to. When I was six or seven, my grandfather gave my dad his 1979 W123 300D as a birthday present. 15 years old or so, but low mileage. I was too young to care about how slow it was, but I remember being silently awed by the vault like construction, the way that every single detail seemed to have been thought about, by the quality of the materials, by the way it smelled, by the way it felt like you were riding in something isolated from the road, you could but still feel the road, unlike my maternal grandparents' Caddys and Buicks. And definitely different from my mom's and dad's Hondas.

Then we got a W124. Same feeling. Then another W124 that I learned to drive on and drove through high school. I adored that car. I loved cruising down the highway at 80 and the authoritative feeling the car had. When my sister adversely possessed it while I was away at college, I bought a low mileage W202. The W202 gets a lot of hate, but if they were still making them, I'd probably take a new one over the W205 just for the sound of the doors, the heavy steering, and the sense that it's a smaller E, not a snazzier compact car. I've been driving that since my senior year, through working, law school, and more working. It's starting to feel like the transmission is going to cost me some money, and I'm also just getting tired of driving a 22 year old car. But damn if it isn't hard to find something that feels like I could live with it the way you could live with the older Benzes. Those old cars just "got" me, and I felt like they became part of the family. I never drove one new enough to be excited by the newest-luxury-car on the block thing; I always came to them later on, when the wow factor had worn off but the sheer quality remained. (I drove my parents' W203 and W211 a few times, more recently, and they feel like transitional cars—not quite at the same level as 80s and 90s Mercedes, but still well built and quirky in that Mercedes way that I don't see at the same level, to the same extent, in the 2012-or-so-onward products.)

I test drove the W205 again on Friday. Again, I liked it. It's not a bad car by any means. Nimble, enjoyable to drive, with a gorgeous interior. The luxury trim has a lot of little touches that make it feel like a Mercedes. I need to check out the base trim again, because I'm not sure if the luxury fits the character of this particular car. I drove it back to back with a 3 series, and I came away liking the C more as far as being realistic about what I need or will use in a daily driver. But when thinking about it over the weekend, I can't quite get enthused about the C. Instead, I start thinking about how much heavier the doors in the doors 3 felt, how neither felt particularly durable, and how the C didn't quite feel like what I think of as a Mercedes. I'll say this, though. I couldn't detect any meaningful difference between the way the C behaved and the 3. I'm sure if they let me take the cars into the California canyons, I'd see a difference, but Mercedes caught up as far as daily-driver tasks go. I remember my dad testing an E39 back in 2001 and laughing out loud at how much more fun it was than the W124. That wasn't my reaction with the F30. (The F30 did feel a little more "German," though. I can't put my finger on what the W205 is. It's good, but different.)

I get why the cars have changed, and I'm glad that Mercedes is finding a way to stay relevant and successful in a changing marketplace. But I would pay a premium to get some sort of a limited "heritage edition" Mercedes, in a heartbeat. In the meantime, I have to adjust my expectations of what cars in this segment are like these days.

Mike5215

The good news is that unlike the current cars, which start self destructing at 60k miles, there are plenty of those real Mercedes on the road and a network of indies staffed by techs who bailed on newer MBs when the ashtrays started getting their own microprocessors who can work on them. Parts are relatively cheap.

They look dated though. Huge black steering wheels, glossy wood everywhere, a tape deck or maybe a CD player if you're lucky. Very boxy and German looking inside and out. Wouldn't an old SL make a great weekend car?

mcbc220

That's what my C220 looks like! I installed a CD player, but it still has the 6-cassette tape deck changer down below, which must have been very cool in 1994.

I've always wanted a 70s or 80s SL as a weekend cruiser, preferably in red or green. Soon, I hope…once I can make up my mind on a ****ing sport sedan (and put a little more away).

When you had the base C300 loaner, did the black plastic on the armrests and dash feel cheap, or was it okay? I can't decide from pictures and sitting in one if it would just make me feel like I was in a rental car after a while, or if it would be OK.

Mike5215

The piano black/aluminum trim looked cheap, and the smaller infotainment screen did too. The MB Tex dash with contrast stitching is a nice touch but the plain dash was ok. MB Tex seats didn't look or feel much different from the leather, but the entire package really helps move the cabin to the next level. Base stereo is almost unlistenable for music.

If you want to escape loaner car hell I'd do the lighting package, leather (and Burmester) and the multi media package for sure.

For something that closely resembles the ride quality of the old Benz, I think AirMatic is a must. Many complaints here about the steel suspension, especially on the Sport package. And stay on the standard 18" wheels vs the 19". (If you don't mind the look of them, the 17" on the base car are very comfortable and negate the need for Airmatic )

I think a base car, lighting, leather, Burmester and multimedia on 17" (or 18" plus Air) would put you where you want to be.

Lords47

I've recently (like 2 weeks ago) came back to the Mercedes family. This is my 4th. My first was a 2007 C230 Sport, followed by a 2009 S550, and a 2011 S550. I left Mercedes for a few years, but just purchased a C450 AMG. I bought it for the sheer thrill and excitement of the drive. It is by no means a comparison to the S550s. I still maintain that those are the best cars on the market, and by far the best cars I've ever owned. I just couldn't justify that kind of car payment for a car that does about 7,500 miles per year. The S550 is more of a cruiser with plush luxury features and a ride quality that can't be beat. The C-Class is still a very nimble and well handling machine, but is obviously harsher over the bumps (especially in Sport/Sport + mode), and is marketed towards an entirely different clientele. I love both cars, but for different reasons. I was originally slightly disappointed with the harsh ride of the C450 at first, but as soon as I put my foot into the throttle, the ***** eating grin that's on my face wipes away any buyers remorse.

mcbc220

Thanks. I'm leaning toward the base specifically because it seems more in character with the C as a lightweight, zippier like Mercedes. Do you think the 18"s on non-run flats but with steel suspension would be okay for ride quality?

Mike5215

I'd swap the run flats for MPSS. Even the base on 18" felt too stiff to me, compared to how much smoother the 17" were on the same chassis.

mcbc220

Interesting. Did the 18"s make the car more fun to drive, or just bumpier?

Mike5215

The car that sold me on the 205 was a base loaner on 17" wheels I had for two weeks while my S550 was stuck in the shop for a backordered strut. I initially wrote it off as yet another crappy loaner while my pride and joy S was in the shop. Around the middle of the first week I realized I'd started to look forward to driving it. I think in terms of being a car that rode well and was still fun to toss around, the base on a steel suspension and 17'' wheels was perfect. I just couldn't stomach the look of all that sidewall. I also wanted the AMG body kit, so that forced the 18" wheels and steel sport suspension on me, and since I didn't want the ride to suffer further I got AirMatic.

Short answer, 18" just made it bumpier. If you're okay with the look of the 17's, repurpose the budget and get a base on 17" steel suspension and then load up on the options. I have all of them. In order of importance (for me):

Leather/Black Ash (or Lindenwood)
Burmester
MultiMedia (pricey but the navi looks so much better than Garmin, and the screen is beautiful. Important since you're staring at it every minute you're in the car.)
Park Assist (if only to get the 360 cam, which I use all the time)
Drivers Assist (if only for the distronic cruise with traffic jam assist)
Power Trunk (worth $250)
Air Balance (if only for the ionizer)
HUD (barely use it, but it was only $1k)

Xtrema

After 2 months of ownership and 3000km.....

I hate COMMAND. It's very poor compared to Audi MMI in term of cohesiveness. It seems like codes written by 20 people with no general direction and stitch together. Why can't I do writing input on NAV but ok with phones. Why sometimes I have to click on return button to exit but sometime and upclick will give me home menu. Why can I only access unread mms messages and only able to engage that with voice command? Why is something is only show up in the center console and not the main screen? The QA and PM running this program should be reassigned, generally it's a poor UI.

Grocery hook, as I'm coming from an Audi, I can't believe I miss the grocery hooks. I feel their flip down hooks are much classier than the $2 plastic clips MB put on the sides.

* Assist, random beeps that only about 1/3 of them warrant actual attention. Sides are ok but front is hit and miss a lot.

Start/Stop randomness and roughness. I understand there are a lot of factors for the system to figure when to or not to engage start/stop. But the start up is always rough especially when engine is cold. You would think they would disable start/stop until engine is warm.

Mike5215

It's funny. My wife has had Audis for the last six years or so. On the rare occasions I've taken her A5 or Q7 I'm always befuddled by MMI. Like why can't I pull up the playlists on my connected IPhone? What's with the awkward 4 corner buttons that are located where your fingers never are? Why do I have to almost reach into the back seat to hit the "next track" button?

Aside from that, I'm always trying to put her car in gear using the windshield wiper stalk.

Quality is spotty too. Last month she called me from the road because the bottom of her 2014 Q7 fell off (it was a large plastic shield.) Then the passenger rear door handle disintegrated in her hand when she tried to open it. On the way to the shop to get the handle fixed I realized the power tilt stopped working, and the blind spot assist was no longer active. This weekend the low oil light came on, way before the next change is due. It was down 2 quarts. It's got 30k miles on it.

I think it's hard switching brands once you've become familiar and comfortable with one in particular.