Burmester audio upgrade decisions
08-23-2021, 12:28 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Burmester audio upgrade decisions
I’ve got a 2021 C43 with Burmester audio. I can’t get consistently enjoyable music so I’m looking at upgrades. I’ve read a few of the big upgrade threads here already and spent lots of time looking at options. I have 2 decisions to make and I’m looking for input.
1) Amplifier with DSP
Option A: Match UP DSP10. Looks like it has good specs, can keep using all factory speakers. They have a downloadable tune for cars with stock speakers. Slight limitation being you can’t have all inputs connected and add additional options like Hi-def Bluetooth. Maybe that’s not a big deal.
Option B: Helix V Eight. I would lose the center speaker. Are there any benefits though compared to the Match option? They look very similar on paper.
2) Speakers
Option A: Match UP speakers. Noted that the front bass are 4 ohms on these, less power will be provided by the amp
Option B: Focal speakers (the direct-fit ones). Similar to Match but front bass are 2 ohm so they’ll get more power.
Which speakers sound better though?
I look forward to updating the forum as I install whichever system I end up with. Thanks for your help.
1) Amplifier with DSP
Option A: Match UP DSP10. Looks like it has good specs, can keep using all factory speakers. They have a downloadable tune for cars with stock speakers. Slight limitation being you can’t have all inputs connected and add additional options like Hi-def Bluetooth. Maybe that’s not a big deal.
Option B: Helix V Eight. I would lose the center speaker. Are there any benefits though compared to the Match option? They look very similar on paper.
2) Speakers
Option A: Match UP speakers. Noted that the front bass are 4 ohms on these, less power will be provided by the amp
Option B: Focal speakers (the direct-fit ones). Similar to Match but front bass are 2 ohm so they’ll get more power.
Which speakers sound better though?
I look forward to updating the forum as I install whichever system I end up with. Thanks for your help.
08-24-2021, 08:39 PM
#2
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How does a 2021 C43 still have crappy sounding Burmester? You would think they would upgrade the speakers and/or even tweak the DSP at some point? Maybe reinvent the front sub-woofers installation? Come on Mercedes.
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Ron P Baker (08-25-2021)
08-26-2021, 11:06 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Dunno
Yeah I dunno. I guess I’ll probably wait a bit on speakers and start with a sub and amp. I’m leaning towards the Match UP 10DSP I think. I’m not sure if the Bluetooth add-in card for the V Eight really handles Hi-Rez music streaming anyway.
08-27-2021, 06:45 PM
#4
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Don’t know what your source of music is. That would make a big difference. From my experience, not on cars. You start with the speakers. Everything else is only as good as the speakers. You put hundreds of watts through lousy speakers, you still have lousy sound. I don’t think Bluetooth is the best for sound anyway.
08-28-2021, 04:00 PM
#5
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Speakers
The sound system is tuned for stock speakers, I’ve read other posts where changing speakers had poor results as the frequency response of the speakers changed.
So I’d probably change the speakers at the same time as the amp or I might try the stock speakers for a little while after adding an amp, not sure yet.
So I’d probably change the speakers at the same time as the amp or I might try the stock speakers for a little while after adding an amp, not sure yet.
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WTC43AMG (02-16-2022)
08-28-2021, 05:39 PM
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2015 C300 4Matic Sport
I’ve got a 2021 C43 with Burmester audio. I can’t get consistently enjoyable music so I’m looking at upgrades. I’ve read a few of the big upgrade threads here already and spent lots of time looking at options. I have 2 decisions to make and I’m looking for input.
1) Amplifier with DSP
Option A: Match UP DSP10. Looks like it has good specs, can keep using all factory speakers. They have a downloadable tune for cars with stock speakers. Slight limitation being you can’t have all inputs connected and add additional options like Hi-def Bluetooth. Maybe that’s not a big deal.
Option B: Helix V Eight. I would lose the center speaker. Are there any benefits though compared to the Match option? They look very similar on paper.
2) Speakers
Option A: Match UP speakers. Noted that the front bass are 4 ohms on these, less power will be provided by the amp
Option B: Focal speakers (the direct-fit ones). Similar to Match but front bass are 2 ohm so they’ll get more power.
Which speakers sound better though?
I look forward to updating the forum as I install whichever system I end up with. Thanks for your help.
1) Amplifier with DSP
Option A: Match UP DSP10. Looks like it has good specs, can keep using all factory speakers. They have a downloadable tune for cars with stock speakers. Slight limitation being you can’t have all inputs connected and add additional options like Hi-def Bluetooth. Maybe that’s not a big deal.
Option B: Helix V Eight. I would lose the center speaker. Are there any benefits though compared to the Match option? They look very similar on paper.
2) Speakers
Option A: Match UP speakers. Noted that the front bass are 4 ohms on these, less power will be provided by the amp
Option B: Focal speakers (the direct-fit ones). Similar to Match but front bass are 2 ohm so they’ll get more power.
Which speakers sound better though?
I look forward to updating the forum as I install whichever system I end up with. Thanks for your help.
What you need:
MATCH UP 10DSP
https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...fiers/up-10dsp
MATCH PP-MB 1.9BUR CABLE
https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...l/pp-mb-1.9bur
The 9-channel UPGRADE cable harness PP-MB 1.9BUR enables an easy connection of a MATCH UP 10DSP amplifier with integrated Extension Card MEC ANALOG IN to selected Mercedes vehicles with factory installed Burmester sound systems – model year > 2014 and 9-channel Burmester sound system (13 speakers).
MATCH MEC ANALOG IN CARD
https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m.../mec-analog-in
The MATCH Extension Card ANALOG IN extends MATCH products with two additional analog input channels
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08-31-2021, 11:40 AM
#8
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So I took my car in for service today and was given a 2021 C300 loaner.
Wow, the Burmester sound has very much improved. Surround ON, Bass = 6, Mid = 4 Treble = 7.
Surround has been reworked and front subs are more controlled and warmer than on the 2015s.
Vocals are perfect sounding, although Mercedes seems to favor putting the singers voice on the left (drivers side) and not center dash. I prefer center dash.
The car seems to just need a trunk subwooofer (for some rear boom) and then balance it with the front woofers, so the proper bass notes go back and forth between them.
Wow, the Burmester sound has very much improved. Surround ON, Bass = 6, Mid = 4 Treble = 7.
Surround has been reworked and front subs are more controlled and warmer than on the 2015s.
Vocals are perfect sounding, although Mercedes seems to favor putting the singers voice on the left (drivers side) and not center dash. I prefer center dash.
The car seems to just need a trunk subwooofer (for some rear boom) and then balance it with the front woofers, so the proper bass notes go back and forth between them.
08-31-2021, 04:58 PM
#9
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Burmester
Interesting, I was cutting the midrange to -5 and tweeter by -2 because in Many songs there are certain frequencies that just blast through. Of course then I have to turn up the volume to compensate for the cuts. That’s great for the bass, which sounds pretty good then at about 5 or 6. Your settings were more clear on vocals and such but still I get painfully loud response at certain frequencies and very little bass.
Im going to try new speakers first. Most of the good subs are out of stock everywhere, I want an Audiofrog GB10D4 but not finding it now. So I’ll just replace the front components and see what happens.
Im going to try new speakers first. Most of the good subs are out of stock everywhere, I want an Audiofrog GB10D4 but not finding it now. So I’ll just replace the front components and see what happens.
08-31-2021, 05:20 PM
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Interesting, I was cutting the midrange to -5 and tweeter by -2 because in Many songs there are certain frequencies that just blast through. Of course then I have to turn up the volume to compensate for the cuts. That’s great for the bass, which sounds pretty good then at about 5 or 6. Your settings were more clear on vocals and such but still I get painfully loud response at certain frequencies and very little bass.
Im going to try new speakers first. Most of the good subs are out of stock everywhere, I want an Audiofrog GB10D4 but not finding it now. So I’ll just replace the front components and see what happens.
Im going to try new speakers first. Most of the good subs are out of stock everywhere, I want an Audiofrog GB10D4 but not finding it now. So I’ll just replace the front components and see what happens.
I guess it depends on your music device, application, song quality, transmission, etc
I will sample the CD and radio.
08-31-2021, 08:31 PM
#11
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Good point
I’m playing music from a USB drive. I ripped my CD library years ago, I don’t remember the sampling setting but it was pretty high. Maybe I’m experiencing some compression-related issues?
09-01-2021, 11:15 AM
#12
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I experienced it on the way back to the dealership.
Also, having surround sound on makes it sound worse.
I do love that digital dash though.
I got my baby back! (2015 C300)
Last edited by benzdude; 09-04-2021 at 02:50 PM.
09-04-2021, 03:15 AM
#13
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I think the center speaker is the source of the piercing sound issue. I noticed the vocals on a certain song were really too strong and I could actually tell they were coming from the center this time. I thought turning off surround might help, but the center still plays with it off.
On another note, I decided to try different speakers (ordered them before I realized the center channel was an issue). I decided to go with the Focal set. So far, I've just installed the components in the door although I have the front bass as well. Got the components in tonight and even at a low break-in volume they sound really good. Initially, I thought I would try a DSP amp with stock speakers to see how that went. I think that would've been somewhat disappointing. With the Focals, I can hear a lot more detail already (again at low volume). I saw some complaints (after I ordered them of course) from someone that felt the tweeters were way too bright on the factory Burmester amp, but so far I'm not really experiencing that. I'll update the post after break-in when I can turn it up.
To start, I followed the same approach as benzdude suggested before, elevating the mids and treble. I think it's the way to go on the factory amp. It actually tames some harshness and brings out the vocals and other details noticeably.
It's still super hot in AZ, but I hope to get these front bass drivers installed and see what they do. I find the factory speakers pretty punchy and tight in most songs, but I'm curious if these Focals will be different. They're 2 ohms, so they'll pull more power as well. We'll see if that causes boominess there.
On another note, I decided to try different speakers (ordered them before I realized the center channel was an issue). I decided to go with the Focal set. So far, I've just installed the components in the door although I have the front bass as well. Got the components in tonight and even at a low break-in volume they sound really good. Initially, I thought I would try a DSP amp with stock speakers to see how that went. I think that would've been somewhat disappointing. With the Focals, I can hear a lot more detail already (again at low volume). I saw some complaints (after I ordered them of course) from someone that felt the tweeters were way too bright on the factory Burmester amp, but so far I'm not really experiencing that. I'll update the post after break-in when I can turn it up.
To start, I followed the same approach as benzdude suggested before, elevating the mids and treble. I think it's the way to go on the factory amp. It actually tames some harshness and brings out the vocals and other details noticeably.
It's still super hot in AZ, but I hope to get these front bass drivers installed and see what they do. I find the factory speakers pretty punchy and tight in most songs, but I'm curious if these Focals will be different. They're 2 ohms, so they'll pull more power as well. We'll see if that causes boominess there.
09-04-2021, 01:44 PM
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I think the center speaker is the source of the piercing sound issue. I noticed the vocals on a certain song were really too strong and I could actually tell they were coming from the center this time. I thought turning off surround might help, but the center still plays with it off.
On another note, I decided to try different speakers (ordered them before I realized the center channel was an issue). I decided to go with the Focal set. So far, I've just installed the components in the door although I have the front bass as well. Got the components in tonight and even at a low break-in volume they sound really good. Initially, I thought I would try a DSP amp with stock speakers to see how that went. I think that would've been somewhat disappointing. With the Focals, I can hear a lot more detail already (again at low volume). I saw some complaints (after I ordered them of course) from someone that felt the tweeters were way too bright on the factory Burmester amp, but so far I'm not really experiencing that. I'll update the post after break-in when I can turn it up.
To start, I followed the same approach as benzdude suggested before, elevating the mids and treble. I think it's the way to go on the factory amp. It actually tames some harshness and brings out the vocals and other details noticeably.
It's still super hot in AZ, but I hope to get these front bass drivers installed and see what they do. I find the factory speakers pretty punchy and tight in most songs, but I'm curious if these Focals will be different. They're 2 ohms, so they'll pull more power as well. We'll see if that causes boominess there.
On another note, I decided to try different speakers (ordered them before I realized the center channel was an issue). I decided to go with the Focal set. So far, I've just installed the components in the door although I have the front bass as well. Got the components in tonight and even at a low break-in volume they sound really good. Initially, I thought I would try a DSP amp with stock speakers to see how that went. I think that would've been somewhat disappointing. With the Focals, I can hear a lot more detail already (again at low volume). I saw some complaints (after I ordered them of course) from someone that felt the tweeters were way too bright on the factory Burmester amp, but so far I'm not really experiencing that. I'll update the post after break-in when I can turn it up.
To start, I followed the same approach as benzdude suggested before, elevating the mids and treble. I think it's the way to go on the factory amp. It actually tames some harshness and brings out the vocals and other details noticeably.
It's still super hot in AZ, but I hope to get these front bass drivers installed and see what they do. I find the factory speakers pretty punchy and tight in most songs, but I'm curious if these Focals will be different. They're 2 ohms, so they'll pull more power as well. We'll see if that causes boominess there.
When you turn surround off the rear shelf speakers turn off and the center switches phase.
Make sure you test pop any new speakers to verify the polarity/phase is same as oem. If they are not you can make adapter cables to reverse the wires to match oem.
To tame the front subwoofers and make them sound like real subwoofers I did this DSP tweak (below). Now they work nicely with the rear trunk subwoofer.
You can leave the other speakers alone, but the front subwoofers need a DSP tweak to sound 100%
Last edited by benzdude; 09-04-2021 at 01:59 PM.
09-04-2021, 01:46 PM
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Got up early, tried to beat the heat, and got 1 front sub installed. It's not too bad a job if you follow the video link below. Additional comments below the video...
The Focal instruction video only shows the driver's side and doesn't mention unbolting the seat which makes pulling the carpet out much easier. I put some sound deadener sheet on the plastic cover as well, I have heard some resonance at certain frequencies but I'm not sure that's what it is, but couldn't hurt.
The Focal specs say that the speakers are 2 ohm, but I'm not sure that's true. I measured the stock speaker and the Focal and they were both 2.7 ohms (DC measurement), so they're the same as stock. If you don't have Burmester audio though, and only 1 front bass speaker, the kit comes with a cable to connect a second one but it will put it in series. The kit also comes with 2 pigtails though.
After watching other videos about the front bass, I was surprised to see that the factory woofers are actually 8" and it looks like they have a neodymium magnet? I wonder if they improved this or if I had only seen the non-Burmester woofers before. I didn't want to take apart the Focal rear insulation basked as it's bolted on but the magnet feels about twice the diameter of the stock and I believe it's also neodymium. I've only powered it up to test that it works before reinstalling all carpet and trim so far, I'll take it out later for a listen although it will be stock on the driver's side unfortunately.
The Focal instruction video only shows the driver's side and doesn't mention unbolting the seat which makes pulling the carpet out much easier. I put some sound deadener sheet on the plastic cover as well, I have heard some resonance at certain frequencies but I'm not sure that's what it is, but couldn't hurt.
The Focal specs say that the speakers are 2 ohm, but I'm not sure that's true. I measured the stock speaker and the Focal and they were both 2.7 ohms (DC measurement), so they're the same as stock. If you don't have Burmester audio though, and only 1 front bass speaker, the kit comes with a cable to connect a second one but it will put it in series. The kit also comes with 2 pigtails though.
After watching other videos about the front bass, I was surprised to see that the factory woofers are actually 8" and it looks like they have a neodymium magnet? I wonder if they improved this or if I had only seen the non-Burmester woofers before. I didn't want to take apart the Focal rear insulation basked as it's bolted on but the magnet feels about twice the diameter of the stock and I believe it's also neodymium. I've only powered it up to test that it works before reinstalling all carpet and trim so far, I'll take it out later for a listen although it will be stock on the driver's side unfortunately.
Last edited by James_H; 09-04-2021 at 01:50 PM.
09-04-2021, 02:04 PM
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Got up early, tried to beat the heat, and got 1 front sub installed. It's not too bad a job if you follow the video link below. Additional comments below the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbHZ1pE_NQ0
The Focal instruction video only shows the driver's side and doesn't mention unbolting the seat which makes pulling the carpet out much easier. I put some sound deadener sheet on the plastic cover as well, I have heard some resonance at certain frequencies but I'm not sure that's what it is, but couldn't hurt.
The Focal specs say that the speakers are 2 ohm, but I'm not sure that's true. I measured the stock speaker and the Focal and they were both 2.7 ohms (DC measurement), so they're the same as stock. If you don't have Burmester audio though, and only 1 front bass speaker, the kit comes with a cable to connect a second one but it will put it in series. The kit also comes with 2 pigtails though.
After watching other videos about the front bass, I was surprised to see that the factory woofers are actually 8" and it looks like they have a neodymium magnet? I wonder if they improved this or if I had only seen the non-Burmester woofers before. I didn't want to take apart the Focal rear insulation basked as it's bolted on but the magnet feels about twice the diameter of the stock and I believe it's also neodymium. I've only powered it up to test that it works before reinstalling all carpet and trim so far, I'll take it out later for a listen although it will be stock on the driver's side unfortunately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbHZ1pE_NQ0
The Focal instruction video only shows the driver's side and doesn't mention unbolting the seat which makes pulling the carpet out much easier. I put some sound deadener sheet on the plastic cover as well, I have heard some resonance at certain frequencies but I'm not sure that's what it is, but couldn't hurt.
The Focal specs say that the speakers are 2 ohm, but I'm not sure that's true. I measured the stock speaker and the Focal and they were both 2.7 ohms (DC measurement), so they're the same as stock. If you don't have Burmester audio though, and only 1 front bass speaker, the kit comes with a cable to connect a second one but it will put it in series. The kit also comes with 2 pigtails though.
After watching other videos about the front bass, I was surprised to see that the factory woofers are actually 8" and it looks like they have a neodymium magnet? I wonder if they improved this or if I had only seen the non-Burmester woofers before. I didn't want to take apart the Focal rear insulation basked as it's bolted on but the magnet feels about twice the diameter of the stock and I believe it's also neodymium. I've only powered it up to test that it works before reinstalling all carpet and trim so far, I'll take it out later for a listen although it will be stock on the driver's side unfortunately.
That's $3100 for the FOCAL INSIDE PREMIUM 11.2 Kit.
Last edited by benzdude; 09-04-2021 at 02:27 PM.
09-05-2021, 12:17 AM
#17
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Yeah but I’m probably only replacing the front components and I got scratch n dent units that dropped the price closer to the Match units. When I looked at them, I don’t really see any scratches or dents and they sound good. Note that the Match front bass are $600 but the components are only $279 I think. If I do replace the rears, I’ll probably do the Match. I had a good experience with Focal in a VW GTI years ago so I thought I’d try them first. I’ve got 60 days to return them also.
Thanks for the DSP tip. I still do want to get a DSP amp in the near future, and I’m definitely not a tuning expert. So you just pulled the front subs down at 100Hz? My first guess would be to put like an 80Hz high pass on them and 80Hz low pass on whatever trunk sub I get. I’m assuming that doesn’t blend well then?
Looking at a wire list for the Burmester amp I found in some other post here (probably one of yours?) it looks like there are separate channels in the factory wiring for the front tweeters and midrange? So I could make the front components 3-way active?
Thanks for the DSP tip. I still do want to get a DSP amp in the near future, and I’m definitely not a tuning expert. So you just pulled the front subs down at 100Hz? My first guess would be to put like an 80Hz high pass on them and 80Hz low pass on whatever trunk sub I get. I’m assuming that doesn’t blend well then?
Looking at a wire list for the Burmester amp I found in some other post here (probably one of yours?) it looks like there are separate channels in the factory wiring for the front tweeters and midrange? So I could make the front components 3-way active?
10-22-2021, 08:56 AM
#18
So how does the focal sound in comparison to the burmester? My issue with the burmester is that it’s not very loud. Especially when the sound focus is to all doors for your passengers.
10-24-2021, 04:15 AM
#19
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Just changing speakers will tease you. The Focals on the factory amp sound good and clean but the sound is not properly balanced, not surprising since the speakers have different characteristics.
I recently installed a Match Up 10DSP amp and am in the midst of the tuning process. It’s starting to sound very good but I have more tuning to do.
The Focal front subs are very nice. I was surprised at how good they sound and how low they play, probably 40 or 45Hz before they really fall off. The factory amp makes them a bit boomy as the factory speakers have different characteristics. They’re 2 ohms so they’ll get more power. I’d recommend these, especially if you can find a scratch’n’dent on Crutchfield or something.
Hopefully I’ll get some good tuning results soon and I’ll post an update. I think I have better than factory sound now but I still need to smooth out some areas.
I recently installed a Match Up 10DSP amp and am in the midst of the tuning process. It’s starting to sound very good but I have more tuning to do.
The Focal front subs are very nice. I was surprised at how good they sound and how low they play, probably 40 or 45Hz before they really fall off. The factory amp makes them a bit boomy as the factory speakers have different characteristics. They’re 2 ohms so they’ll get more power. I’d recommend these, especially if you can find a scratch’n’dent on Crutchfield or something.
Hopefully I’ll get some good tuning results soon and I’ll post an update. I think I have better than factory sound now but I still need to smooth out some areas.
10-24-2021, 01:00 PM
#20
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Where are you all getting these Focal and Match speakers? My C350e has the base speakers and they could use help at least up front for now.
How difficult are the door speakers to install? I am so bad at door panels that I might have to prep and buy extra clips, inevitably I'd break a few...
How difficult are the door speakers to install? I am so bad at door panels that I might have to prep and buy extra clips, inevitably I'd break a few...
10-24-2021, 01:58 PM
#21
Where are you all getting these Focal and Match speakers? My C350e has the base speakers and they could use help at least up front for now.
How difficult are the door speakers to install? I am so bad at door panels that I might have to prep and buy extra clips, inevitably I'd break a few...
How difficult are the door speakers to install? I am so bad at door panels that I might have to prep and buy extra clips, inevitably I'd break a few...
The door panels are actually not bad, I'd say the only tricky part is the window seal positioning when you put them back on. Once you get the hang of it, you can have them on/off in 5m.
10-24-2021, 02:04 PM
#22
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Where are you all getting these Focal and Match speakers? My C350e has the base speakers and they could use help at least up front for now.
How difficult are the door speakers to install? I am so bad at door panels that I might have to prep and buy extra clips, inevitably I'd break a few...
How difficult are the door speakers to install? I am so bad at door panels that I might have to prep and buy extra clips, inevitably I'd break a few...
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Holson (10-24-2021)
10-24-2021, 02:12 PM
#23
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I got mine from ebay.co.uk, shipping to US is a bit pricey. The Match speakers are plug-n-play, simply pop in like factory. If you go with Focal for fronts, you will need to do some work for mounting (screws in door, cutting out some plastic for tweeters).
The door panels are actually not bad, I'd say the only tricky part is the window seal positioning when you put them back on. Once you get the hang of it, you can have them on/off in 5m.
The door panels are actually not bad, I'd say the only tricky part is the window seal positioning when you put them back on. Once you get the hang of it, you can have them on/off in 5m.
To put it back, just put the seal back in the window first, align the clips and snap the seal and panel together at the top, then the other clips.
Also, There is a large square clip near the door pins, at the panel top left edge, you must lift the panel up and over it immediately after loosening the bottom edge clips.
Remove it from the door and attach it to the panel before re installing the panel.
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10-24-2021, 06:22 PM
#24
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Thanks guys! I watched the video @James_H posted and it doesn't look too bad. Appreciate the extra tips on the window seals @benzdude
Do you guys know if the base audio have a subwoofer too? I assume it does since I can't imagine those mid ranges pushing any kind of bass and the bass is not terrible.
Do you guys know if the base audio have a subwoofer too? I assume it does since I can't imagine those mid ranges pushing any kind of bass and the bass is not terrible.
10-25-2021, 12:26 AM
#25
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Thread Starter
You can find the Match and Focal speakers on Crutchfield but find the part number on the manufacturer’s website and then search for it on Crutchfield’s search bar.
The midrange is really easy to change, the tweeter is harder to remove but easy to install the new one. The subs are more time-consuming but not hard. There are a couple of YouTube videos that really helped. It probably took an hour each side maybe less.
The bass system comes with one front bass speaker and a cover on the other side. The Focal subwoofer kit and probably the others has the wiring you’d need to add the second woofer but you’ll probably need amplification to drive them.
The midrange is really easy to change, the tweeter is harder to remove but easy to install the new one. The subs are more time-consuming but not hard. There are a couple of YouTube videos that really helped. It probably took an hour each side maybe less.
The bass system comes with one front bass speaker and a cover on the other side. The Focal subwoofer kit and probably the others has the wiring you’d need to add the second woofer but you’ll probably need amplification to drive them.
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Holson (10-25-2021)
