CLS63TT spark plug broke
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 186
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
CLS63 AMG
When was your CLS built?
Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 138
Likes: 11
From: Las Vegas
2004 CLK55
thats pure BS from the dealer. A bunch of douchebags that just dont know what they are doing and dont want to work and wanna blame everything on your ECU tune. Your ECU tune is safe and there is nothing wrong with it in terms of the safety of your components and internals.
My uncle has the 2012 CLS63, which is completely stock. He had the same problem that you are facing.
The plugs is a common problem for the M157 engine. They were on recall and they still did not come up with something good.
Get yourself some Brisk Spark plugs. A friend of mine is running them on his Tuned M157 E63 without any issues.
My uncle has the 2012 CLS63, which is completely stock. He had the same problem that you are facing.
The plugs is a common problem for the M157 engine. They were on recall and they still did not come up with something good.
Get yourself some Brisk Spark plugs. A friend of mine is running them on his Tuned M157 E63 without any issues.
First off, if you took your Rolex, opened it up and modified it and then took said Rolex back to the manufacturer and said the watch isn't keeping time correctly, what do you think they would say?
Second off I've worked on cars and been modifying cars for year and seen plenty of engine failures and part failures. Even though the picture is blurry that's a text book example of lean detonation.
I've personally replaced these faulty spark plugs and when the ceramic breaks is slides down over the electrode and causes a misfire, CEL, and the ME shuts that cylinder down.
I'm with dbasons55, nothing that is being stated here makes any sense at all. Only .8 psi above stock cannot produce the claimed performance results. I may be just a lowly service technician (who is very mod friendly) but risking my livelihood to warranty something this is obviously caused by an outside influence isn't worth it. Just remember, your wealth has no correlation to your intelegance.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 730
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From: The Beach
2012 C63 Purpose built race car, 2015 CLS 63 S, 2016 GLA45, 2017 GTS
Also - You mentioned you were a SA
Are you seeing a lot of 2012 AMGs coming in with bad plugs?Thanks Tri
Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 138
Likes: 11
From: Las Vegas
2004 CLK55
Do you think something in the ECU modification created an environment ripe for lean dentition? I'm just learning here but very interested because this happened to me...but the CEL came on and I rolled into the dealer right away and even though I was 1 mile away I didn't think I would make it.
Also - You mentioned you were a SAAre you seeing a lot of 2012 AMGs coming in with bad plugs?
Thanks Tri
Also - You mentioned you were a SA
Are you seeing a lot of 2012 AMGs coming in with bad plugs?Thanks Tri
I think what happened to you was different than what happened to Ali. Ali's plug looks like the cylinder ran lean causing the temperatures to go way up. Then the ground strap of the spark plug was cherry red from all the heat much like a glow plug. Then when the injector sprayed into the cylinder is caused the fuel to ignite before it should have causing all hell to break loose.
Rasing the boost with a flash creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures. Which more than likely made the porcelain from the bad run of spark plugs in the early engines crack due to higher stresses. When the electrode strap is still on the spark plug it blocks the ceramic from falling off the spark plug and into the combustion chamber
The shop I work at has one of the highest concentrations of AMG's in the country and we've seen 3 cars come in with a single bad plug in each.
Last edited by tri-star tech; May 10, 2012 at 02:08 AM. Reason: Correction
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 976
Likes: 77
I'm with dbasons55, nothing that is being stated here makes any sense at all. Only .8 psi above stock cannot produce the claimed performance results. I may be just a lowly service technician (who is very mod friendly) but risking my livelihood to warranty something this is obviously caused by an outside influence isn't worth it. Just remember, your wealth has no correlation to your intelegance.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 281
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CLS55 plus a few Ducati's
Or your ability to spell and punctuate...
Seriously this is not worth getting stressed about... just let him sort it out. Obviously he is just going on information he is being given from many sources. Give the guy a break!
Seriously this is not worth getting stressed about... just let him sort it out. Obviously he is just going on information he is being given from many sources. Give the guy a break!
Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia
2014 GT-R; 2014 GL 350 BTC
I'm not a service advisor, I'm a technician/mechanic/grease monkey. Whatever you want to call me, I'm the guy who actually fixes the vehicles. And believe it or not, I have more say if something is warranty than the service advisor. You should find a tech that knows mods and develop a relationship with him. I have no problems with aftermarket stuff if it's done correctly.
I think what happened to you was different than what happened to Ali. Ali's plug looks like the cylinder ran lean causing the temperatures to go way up. Then the ground strap of the spark plug was cherry red from all the heat much like a glow plug. Then when the injector sprayed into the cylinder is caused the fuel to ignite before it should have causing all hell to break loose.
Rasing the boost with a flash creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures. Which more than likely made the porcelain from the bad run of spark plugs in the early engines crack due to higher stresses. When the electrode strap is still on the spark plug it blocks the ceramic from falling off the spark plug and into the combustion chamber
The shop I work at has one of the highest concentrations of AMG's in the country and we've seen 3 cars come in with a single bad plug in each.
I think what happened to you was different than what happened to Ali. Ali's plug looks like the cylinder ran lean causing the temperatures to go way up. Then the ground strap of the spark plug was cherry red from all the heat much like a glow plug. Then when the injector sprayed into the cylinder is caused the fuel to ignite before it should have causing all hell to break loose.
Rasing the boost with a flash creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures. Which more than likely made the porcelain from the bad run of spark plugs in the early engines crack due to higher stresses. When the electrode strap is still on the spark plug it blocks the ceramic from falling off the spark plug and into the combustion chamber
The shop I work at has one of the highest concentrations of AMG's in the country and we've seen 3 cars come in with a single bad plug in each.
Thanks for the input here, the MB tech perspective is very helpful. If only you worked in my market.
Not that I will hold you to it but can you give us a sense of what the timeframe was for the bad run of plugs. My cls63 was built last week of October. I took me car to the dealer to ask about my plugs and they said that I did not need to worry on my car but freefall had issues and his was built first week in October.
I just got the Renntech flash and my tuning shop looked at my plugs before the flash and said they looked fine but I am really concerned about them given this thread. Thanks.
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2017 991.2 Turbo PDK 2017 C63S Coupe Ceramic Brakes 2015 CLS63S AMG Full House
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 175
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From: Washington, NJ
E55 AMG
Good News Brisk has the Plugs one heat range colder! I just need to verify that they work properly before I sell them, Who is interested??
email us Info@redlinespeedworx.com
email us Info@redlinespeedworx.com
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Philadelphia, PA
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
That's one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read on this forum (and let me tell you there's a bunch of guys on here that have no idea how engines function).
First off, if you took your Rolex, opened it up and modified it and then took said Rolex back to the manufacturer and said the watch isn't keeping time correctly, what do you think they would say?
Second off I've worked on cars and been modifying cars for year and seen plenty of engine failures and part failures. Even though the picture is blurry that's a text book example of lean detonation.
I've personally replaced these faulty spark plugs and when the ceramic breaks is slides down over the electrode and causes a misfire, CEL, and the ME shuts that cylinder down.
I'm with dbasons55, nothing that is being stated here makes any sense at all. Only .8 psi above stock cannot produce the claimed performance results. I may be just a lowly service technician (who is very mod friendly) but risking my livelihood to warranty something this is obviously caused by an outside influence isn't worth it. Just remember, your wealth has no correlation to your intelegance.
First off, if you took your Rolex, opened it up and modified it and then took said Rolex back to the manufacturer and said the watch isn't keeping time correctly, what do you think they would say?
Second off I've worked on cars and been modifying cars for year and seen plenty of engine failures and part failures. Even though the picture is blurry that's a text book example of lean detonation.
I've personally replaced these faulty spark plugs and when the ceramic breaks is slides down over the electrode and causes a misfire, CEL, and the ME shuts that cylinder down.
I'm with dbasons55, nothing that is being stated here makes any sense at all. Only .8 psi above stock cannot produce the claimed performance results. I may be just a lowly service technician (who is very mod friendly) but risking my livelihood to warranty something this is obviously caused by an outside influence isn't worth it. Just remember, your wealth has no correlation to your intelegance.
I'm not a service advisor, I'm a technician/mechanic/grease monkey. Whatever you want to call me, I'm the guy who actually fixes the vehicles. And believe it or not, I have more say if something is warranty than the service advisor. You should find a tech that knows mods and develop a relationship with him. I have no problems with aftermarket stuff if it's done correctly.
I think what happened to you was different than what happened to Ali. Ali's plug looks like the cylinder ran lean causing the temperatures to go way up. Then the ground strap of the spark plug was cherry red from all the heat much like a glow plug. Then when the injector sprayed into the cylinder is caused the fuel to ignite before it should have causing all hell to break loose.
Rasing the boost with a flash creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures. Which more than likely made the porcelain from the bad run of spark plugs in the early engines crack due to higher stresses. When the electrode strap is still on the spark plug it blocks the ceramic from falling off the spark plug and into the combustion chamber
The shop I work at has one of the highest concentrations of AMG's in the country and we've seen 3 cars come in with a single bad plug in each.
I think what happened to you was different than what happened to Ali. Ali's plug looks like the cylinder ran lean causing the temperatures to go way up. Then the ground strap of the spark plug was cherry red from all the heat much like a glow plug. Then when the injector sprayed into the cylinder is caused the fuel to ignite before it should have causing all hell to break loose.
Rasing the boost with a flash creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures. Which more than likely made the porcelain from the bad run of spark plugs in the early engines crack due to higher stresses. When the electrode strap is still on the spark plug it blocks the ceramic from falling off the spark plug and into the combustion chamber
The shop I work at has one of the highest concentrations of AMG's in the country and we've seen 3 cars come in with a single bad plug in each.
Looks like detonation, and the factory ECU failsafes couldn't interfere in time to save the engine. Maybe the aftermarket tune's a smidge too aggressive, or maybe it's simply a smidge too aggressive for this particular client's extreme usage.
I expect we'll get to the point where upgraded tunes for M157's require (or are strongly recommended by the tuner) a one-step colder plug install to accompany their usage. Whether it be Bosch, NGK, Denso, or whomever. I'm actually a little surprised it wasn't recommended already, given when adding this much power over a stock level, moving to a one-step colder plug to help keep cylinder head temps happy is Tuning 101.
Regardless, it is what it is... a shame for Ali to be the unfortunate R&D guinea pig here, but hopefully it results in better outcomes for others down the line. And, who knows, maybe his tuner will step up and financially help with the repair bill.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 175
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From: Washington, NJ
E55 AMG
I just had an epiphany LOL
I remember when I went to school for the 278 engine they pounded into our heads that all the Spark plugs are indexed, When torquing the plugs they all sit in the exact same direction. Hence the thick copper seal washer not a crush washer.
My point is that there is no aftermarket plug that will index like the stocks!
I will call Brisk tomorrow about this to see what they think.
I remember when I went to school for the 278 engine they pounded into our heads that all the Spark plugs are indexed, When torquing the plugs they all sit in the exact same direction. Hence the thick copper seal washer not a crush washer.
My point is that there is no aftermarket plug that will index like the stocks!
I will call Brisk tomorrow about this to see what they think.
Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 138
Likes: 11
From: Las Vegas
2004 CLK55
I just had an epiphany LOL
I remember when I went to school for the 278 engine they pounded into our heads that all the Spark plugs are indexed, When torquing the plugs they all sit in the exact same direction. Hence the thick copper seal washer not a crush washer.
My point is that there is no aftermarket plug that will index like the stocks!
I will call Brisk tomorrow about this to see what they think.
I remember when I went to school for the 278 engine they pounded into our heads that all the Spark plugs are indexed, When torquing the plugs they all sit in the exact same direction. Hence the thick copper seal washer not a crush washer.
My point is that there is no aftermarket plug that will index like the stocks!
I will call Brisk tomorrow about this to see what they think.
No, it's the 276 engine that is indexed, not the 278.
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: philadelphia
2005 E55 drowned/ 2011 CTS-v coupe gone/ 2012 E63 PP,LSD finally here
I just had an epiphany LOL
I remember when I went to school for the 278 engine they pounded into our heads that all the Spark plugs are indexed, When torquing the plugs they all sit in the exact same direction. Hence the thick copper seal washer not a crush washer.
My point is that there is no aftermarket plug that will index like the stocks!
I will call Brisk tomorrow about this to see what they think.
I remember when I went to school for the 278 engine they pounded into our heads that all the Spark plugs are indexed, When torquing the plugs they all sit in the exact same direction. Hence the thick copper seal washer not a crush washer.
My point is that there is no aftermarket plug that will index like the stocks!
I will call Brisk tomorrow about this to see what they think.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
cls63
JR and the guys at Redline Speed Worx know their stuff and would not steer us wrong. I've dealt with them and they are extremely knowledgeable and have a great shop.
If you're in the tristate area I highly recommend them. Last time I was there they even had cars from around the country shipped to them to be worked on. I'll be seeing them next week!
If you're in the tristate area I highly recommend them. Last time I was there they even had cars from around the country shipped to them to be worked on. I'll be seeing them next week!
Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 138
Likes: 11
From: Las Vegas
2004 CLK55
I am interested in the Brisk plugs but I have a question, don't they have to be indexed because our motors are DI?? and also isn't the plug located near the path of the fuel spray? and doesn't this supposedly keep the plugs cool? this is all important info that needs to get sorted out before we all go changing our plugs, I'm all for better plugs I just want to be sure they are correct for our application
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: philadelphia
2005 E55 drowned/ 2011 CTS-v coupe gone/ 2012 E63 PP,LSD finally here
Only the V6 276 engine series needs to have the spark plug indexed. The 276 runs in a stratified charge in Europe. The stratified charge has different air/fuel ratios throughout the cone of fuel that sparyed by the injector. This allows for extremely lean conditions. To accomplish this the plugs need to be indexed. The 276 engine actually has steel cylinder liners to keep the heat in the the cylinder whereas the 278 does not. The US fuel does not meet the requirements needed for stratified charge, so the engines run in homogenous mode in the US where the air/fuel ratio is the same throughout.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 13
From: Abu Dhabi
C218 CLS63TT PP Edition1, W213 E63S
i was outside the country the last couple days,
i went to the dealer yesterday and took very nice pictures with HQ. lucky for me, only one exhuast valve have been chipped, ( bore, cylinder wall, head, piston ring are all fine) i took some pictures of other plugs from inside (head side, next to valves).
BUT I WILL REPLACE THEM AND TAKE PICTURES OF THEM AFTER I GET THE CAR ( just for dbasons55 sake )
the other plugs looks fine, and it was a fualty plug as they said ^_^.
SA said even if it is a fualty plug its on me because my car is tuned. otherwise it would have been on them.
tuned cars can show directly and they can see timing, AFR, and everything ( SA claim ).
funny thing he said: my tune is below the limits if my car and very strong compared to the others they checked when owners bring them for service, so even if they keep silent, they check if cars are tuned.
so it is still a safe tune. AFR is lower than stock by 0.5, maybe i will ask for a richer mix tune ( 11.2- 11.5). it should be 11.5 but maybe our weather or my DP affects the AFR to be not like Vic55.
so, parts will not cost alot, valve, gaskets, etc.
but labor is a total rip off. LOL
and the hard part is i have to wait 4 weeks for parts to reach from Germany.
i went to the dealer yesterday and took very nice pictures with HQ. lucky for me, only one exhuast valve have been chipped, ( bore, cylinder wall, head, piston ring are all fine) i took some pictures of other plugs from inside (head side, next to valves).
BUT I WILL REPLACE THEM AND TAKE PICTURES OF THEM AFTER I GET THE CAR ( just for dbasons55 sake )
the other plugs looks fine, and it was a fualty plug as they said ^_^.
SA said even if it is a fualty plug its on me because my car is tuned. otherwise it would have been on them.
tuned cars can show directly and they can see timing, AFR, and everything ( SA claim ).
funny thing he said: my tune is below the limits if my car and very strong compared to the others they checked when owners bring them for service, so even if they keep silent, they check if cars are tuned.
so it is still a safe tune. AFR is lower than stock by 0.5, maybe i will ask for a richer mix tune ( 11.2- 11.5). it should be 11.5 but maybe our weather or my DP affects the AFR to be not like Vic55.
so, parts will not cost alot, valve, gaskets, etc.
but labor is a total rip off. LOL
and the hard part is i have to wait 4 weeks for parts to reach from Germany.
Last edited by Ali_E55; May 14, 2012 at 05:26 AM.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 13
From: Abu Dhabi
C218 CLS63TT PP Edition1, W213 E63S
thats strange, because untill now only Bosch are available in our dealer.
care to share more ?
part number !!
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 976
Likes: 77
i was outside the country the last couple days,
i went to the dealer yesterday and took very nice pictures with HQ. lucky for me, only one exhuast valve have been chipped, ( bore, cylinder wall, head, piston ring are all fine) i took some pictures of other plugs from inside (head side, next to valves).
BUT I WILL REPLACE THEM AND TAKE PICTURES OF THEM AFTER I GET THE CAR ( just for dbasons55 sake )
the other plugs looks fine, and it was a fualty plug as they said ^_^.
SA said even if it is a fualty plug its on me because my car is tuned. otherwise it would have been on them.
tuned cars can show directly and they can see timing, AFR, and everything ( SA claim ).
funny thing he said: my tune is below the limits if my car and very strong compared to the others they checked when owners bring them for service, so even if they keep silent, they check if cars are tuned.
so it is still a safe tune. AFR is lower than stock by 0.5, maybe i will ask for a richer mix tune ( 11.2- 11.5). it should be 11.5 but maybe our weather or my DP affects the AFR to be not like Vic55.
so, parts will not cost alot, valve, gaskets, etc.
but labor is a total rip off. LOL
and the hrd part is i have to wait 4 weeks for parts to reach from Germany.
i went to the dealer yesterday and took very nice pictures with HQ. lucky for me, only one exhuast valve have been chipped, ( bore, cylinder wall, head, piston ring are all fine) i took some pictures of other plugs from inside (head side, next to valves).
BUT I WILL REPLACE THEM AND TAKE PICTURES OF THEM AFTER I GET THE CAR ( just for dbasons55 sake )
the other plugs looks fine, and it was a fualty plug as they said ^_^.
SA said even if it is a fualty plug its on me because my car is tuned. otherwise it would have been on them.
tuned cars can show directly and they can see timing, AFR, and everything ( SA claim ).
funny thing he said: my tune is below the limits if my car and very strong compared to the others they checked when owners bring them for service, so even if they keep silent, they check if cars are tuned.
so it is still a safe tune. AFR is lower than stock by 0.5, maybe i will ask for a richer mix tune ( 11.2- 11.5). it should be 11.5 but maybe our weather or my DP affects the AFR to be not like Vic55.
so, parts will not cost alot, valve, gaskets, etc.
but labor is a total rip off. LOL
and the hrd part is i have to wait 4 weeks for parts to reach from Germany.
not making sense. Just wanted to add that its strange when my car was at the dealer they thought it has a Brabus piggyback 
i don't think they know those details cuz i have removed the piggy back!
Last edited by dbasons55; May 14, 2012 at 08:29 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
So how do we tell if we have the potentially bad plugs other than waiting for a CEL or something catastrophic? I called my SA and he didn't know anything about bad plugs. I have a very early build among the first sold in the US.
