Grumpy666

And just why is that? In their 400-mile fuel economy test, the M5 averaged 11 mpg, which is 15% less than the CLS's 13 mpg. The M5's rating of 4 is 20% less than the CLS's 5. What's the problem?

Grumpy666

You think the STS-V's interior is ugly? Have you ever seen the interior of an Opel? Now, THAT'S ugly!

MBE55AMG

God, Caddies just do not grow on me.

Kubazzz

Yeah, but my Opel [BTW - also part of GM] is from mid '90s and doesnt' even try to compete with CLS [or any other Benz]
And I drive an Opel because temporarily I CAN'T afford a Mercedes-Benz
That is just my opinion - STS next to M5 and CLS is awful. We can deliberate on BMWs interior - is it beautiful and perfect - but with Cadillac we can only think about "how ugly its interior is" :p

Grumpy666

I find it incredulous how you can make such an uninformed declaration in a public forum. You have not sat in an STS-V - no one on this forum has - yet still you bash it. All you have seen is a small picture in a magazine. Did you read the C&D article? If you did, did you miss the part where they stated the interior was designed by the German company Draxlmaier, the same company that did the Maybach? There's olive-stained ash, leather on the dash and doors, and suede inserts on the leather seats. C&D also stated it was the most comfortable of the three cars. But I guess there's a certain degree of safety in posting your uninformed opinion on a MB forum where others are sure to pile on.

Stiggs

Oh God...looks like another troll has taken up residency.
Hey Grumpy666...not only does this thread suck, but you suck.

Grumpy666

OK, so someone comes on this forum and challenges others posters who are whining that their car finished third in a 3-car comparison. He does this by stating the facts and using actual data from the comparison and you call him a troll and say he sucks. Well, allow me to reply in kind - my dad can beat up your dad. Grow up, loser.

Kubazzz

You got me wrong, Grumpy.
I don't care who designed it, it doesn't even matter what it is made of or is the car comfortable. Important is, that what I've seen on pictures doesn't impress me, I don't like, I think it's dull. I used words like "awful" and "ugly" but it's just my subjective opinion! Looking even at the pictures of these three cars, I can point out what I like and what I don't like and so I can say which car has the best overall look, in MY opinion. You may prefer Geo Metro to Maybach but it doesn't mean I should too. Many people complain about MBs styling. Everything is a matter of taste. And I'm not in a minority - few people in Europe really appreciate US styling...

Sorry if I hurt brittle hearts of Cadillac worshippers :p

chiphomme

[QUOTE=Grumpy666]These categories are considered objective because they're based on actual measurements, not the evaluator's perception. They are raw numbers.
QUOTE]




NO they're not. How is a 20 in performance a "raw number"??????????????????0-60, 1/4mile times, etc are RAW numbers. Not arbitrary scales. Sheez.

Why do they weigh each category differently? Isn't category importance subjective?

Grumpy666

[QUOTE=chiphomme]Re-read my post. The performance category is a compilation of the performance parameters. The RAW numbers, which are measurements, are evaluated and then assigned a rating. Hence, the rating is based on the raw numbers, not perception. All raw numbers are listed in their comparisons for review, so there's no magic or deception here.

MDCLS

How many who were seriously looking at(and can easily afford) the 55 and/or M5 will change their minds and buy the Caddy based on what C&D or one of the other mags writes about? There is so much subjective,opinionated,argumentive material in some of these writeups. Sometimes it can get absurd. They have an as tested price factor?Why not included projected residuals or rattle ratio over an avg 3 year period?What about big city crowd appeal. Set them out front on the Las Vegas Strip or other venue. Which car draws the biggest crowd? Let us put that figure in the mix.Would like to be proven wrong but I will place my bets that it's not the Caddy (unless the GM convention , Nascar Race is in town ) Subjective, opinionated,argumentive rant over

chiphomme

[QUOTE=Grumpy666]

Re think mine. I couldn't care less about their parameters. Raw numbers are raw numbers. How some entity decides to weigh them is SUBJECTIVE (e g straight line speed is much more important to me than lateral gs).

amgplayer

If you think we hit a nerve with Grump here you should read some of his other post specifically jumping on Victor and his water injection. I kind of guess Grump reads alot, but doesn't do alot, or buy alot.

Nij

Car and Driver is for idiots who love American junk

Grumpy666

Please - don't keep the forum in suspense - post a link to this attack on Victor. Let's see what a nasty person I am.


If you knew my background and experience level, you would feel pretty stupid making another uninformed statement like this. But I guess when you don't have anything intelligent to add to the discussion, you feel the need to insult. Pathetic.

amb9800

This comparo is screwed up. Why is the CLS55 even going up against the STS-V and M5? Shouldn't it be the E55 (in which case their price, interior space, and rear and side visibility arguments would all go down the drain)? I don't understand that.

How do you compare something marketed as a coupe with a traditional sedan and rate it lower because it doesn't have a rear center seatback? Lol...

amgplayer

Grumpydevil man, tell me what you've done with your life. I come here to learn and share with my fellow Benz enthusiasts. But most of all I'm interested in learning about your rides. How did you end up in MB universe?

vraa

Um, I don't know about you but I love reading Car and Driver strictly because of the subjective opinions on the cars they drive. If they didn't inject their own bias to influence the test results, what fun would reading the magazine be?

Grumpy666

You first. Post the link for the attack on Victor. We're all waiting.

Grumpy666

It's become obvious to me that you're not going to respond to my two requests asking you to post a link to this attack on Victor. I wonder why? Oh wait - I know - because there wasn't an attack. I'll bet you didn't expect this to blow up in your face, did you?

You failed to make your point when faced with the facts that I posted, so you tried to defame me by making a false accusation. Now the whole forum knows what a petty, vindictive little man you are.

For other forum members, here are the links to the water injection threads. You decide.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/97091-water-alky-injection-project.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/125922-if-you-dont-want-get-raped-hp-look-inside.html

chiphomme

I'm not really debating that point. In fact I'm pretty much saying that's exactly right. It's just that I disagree with their subjective opinion. The CLS was in a practical deadheat with the M5 performance wise while the Caddy was a distant third. It's a joke to even consider the caddy over the other two.

Grumpy666

You seem to be struggling with the concept of the word opinion. They drove all three cars side-by-side at the same time. They gave us their impressions of that comparison. Yes, it's subjective. But it's based on real-world experience. Just because their opinion differs from yours, you think their's is a joke. Not only is your bias showing, but it's also getting old in this thread. Why don't you stop whining and give it a rest.

I agree with Ricky. I think their evaluations give us some real insight into the cars they drive that you just can't get from looking at performance numbers only. It's often the small day-to-day subjective things that can make or break an enjoyable driving experience.

MDCLS

Just read another review I think it was Jan issue of Automobile about the STSV. Nice points but they concluded it still has some big catching up to compete with the German cars and their M5 and E55 The article stated Caddy is clearly aimed at the M5 and E55.
C&D docked points because the CLS doesn't have a 5th seat? Well no s... the CLS is a 4 seat car.
Sending an E-mail off to C&D Still holding firm that the CLS should not have been in that test to begin with. The E55 should have been it has a 5th seat.

chiphomme

That's a laugh coming from someone that distingusih subjective from objective.

Grumpy666

Perhaps if you could form a complete sentence, we could all laugh along with you.
Right now, it's at you for your Oh Yeah? reply.