CLS917

poor quality headers

VelocitE55

Is there any more of an explanation here? Did they come like that or what? Whats the deal?

raymond g-

ohmygosh....there better be more to this story than face/picture value.
so what's up?

Can Drive 55

They look like they were damaged in shipping or run over by a truck. I second the move for an explanation.

Evolution Marine

Looks like someone hit the head pipe (that is attached to the header) on something on the road, driveway, speed bump and shoved the exhaust up and bent the header. Does not mean the header is poor quality, just means the driver had some bad luck or was not paying attention. - - Bob

CLS917

Photos stand for them self’s its was fitted on the car working fine until we found a loss in power & for the info people it’s not a rally car it’s a E55 the car didn’t touch any thing if this what you think it’s from poor quality that what you get for cheap headers.

idrive

I'm not buying into this....

more to the story than being told.

No one else has had this problem...

vraa

http://www.evosport.com/product/prod...VO.EXH.M11.H03

I'm comparing the pictures you posted versus the official pictures of the headers from Evosports site. It looks a lot like you hit something to bend the (is this the right word) flange in the opposite direction?

Have you gotten in contact with Evosport yet?

Can Drive 55

One thing is for certain, there was deformation due to stress. It looks like compression stress to me. Whether or not it was from impact, it was due to the exhaust pipe pushing up against the header. Maybe it was not from am impact. It could have been from an improper installation with the heat tempering the header metal enough for it to bend under the stress of the pipe pushing on it. My $.02.

AMG_55

agree w/ this guy
it wouldnt just bend like that for no reason, it needs pressure to lose its original shape

Mr. Vanos

Let me clarify what we are looking at here. This customer was sold a set of headers for his E55 Kompressor. Some time later I get a call stating that the headers are bad and broken and a replacement was necessary. So the first thing I asked for was a description of the problem and some pictures to understand the situation. Once I received the pics, I was amazed at what I was looking at. I have never seen headers in this condition before and neither had anyone on our staff. I asked for more info, including the mods on the car, etc. Obviously, we suspected something not right here...at first glance, it seemed apparent that there was some outside force that caused this. Either the car ran so lean and the temps got hot enough to melt the metal and coating (this would require somewhere around 2800 deg F), or something made impact with the exhaust system. This customer is in the UAE and I was told by a party in the UAE who knows this individual that the car was running NOS. I then asked the customer to send the headers back for further inspection. We received the headers and I sent them out to 4 separate parties. If there was a quality issue, there is no way we would let it go unaddressed. I want to stress how critical it is for us to identify ANY potential problems in the design or build of ANY of our products. Every party who inspected them, including the aerospace facility that performs the coating and 2 different manufacturers of headers all independently concluded that there is no way metal can bend like this on its own w/o some outside force acting upon it. Both headers are twisted (literally) in the same direction. The welds did not break, but a weld on one of the headers was present and had been created by the customer. Nobody who inspected them questioned the quality of these headers and all parties unanimously made the same independent conslusions w/o being given any information initially. Something made impact with the vehicle and pushed up against the headers to cause them to twist. We have sold many of these headers and we have NEVER seen anything like this.

I questioned the customer further for more information, including pictures of the rest of the exhaust system. Had this car been involved in an accident? Did someone else drive the car? I informed him that headers cannot just twist on their own like this. It just can't happen. He insisted that it's a quality issue and nothing outside the norm had occurred. Given this I told him that we view this as a serious matter and we have gone out of our way to try to understand what happened here, since I wasn't getting any more details from the customer. Our conclusions at this point are that this is NOT a quality issue but an issue of misuse or abuse. While we cannot offer a replacement at no cost, I would be willing to assist in another set of headers at a reduced price as a customer service gesture. It is CRITICAL to us to try to identify the situation here, but we are more than confident that quality is NOT in question. Anyone that looks at these, as many of you have from the pics, can see there is no way headers can bend on their own.

It's unfortunate to see what happened and I am more than willing to work with the customer as I have told him to make this a win-win. But we will not offer a no-cost replacement under warranty since there is no issue of quality in question from our investigation. It's more unfortunate that the customer insists that this is a quality issue without being able to substantiate any of the claims or offer any more information. I am not claiming the customer is withholding information. What I am claiming is there is a possibility that the customer may not be aware of the external circumstances that may have transpired to cause this.

With that being said, we welcome anyone to contact us for further information and we'd be happy to provide that. These are the facts above and we will not waste any more time or bandwidth on this subject in this thread. I think the pictures speak for themselves.

Can Drive 55

I tend to agree with Mr. Vanos.

velvet fog

I'm with Mr. V. There is more to the story than we are getting here. I want to see a picture of the car and the engine bay of the car these were remove from.

CLS917

Mr. Vanos the first time in my life time that I hear that NOS could bend a headers unless from Poor Quality how can you misuse or abuse a headers bend it with your hands if the car had been involved in an accident why do you think I would need a new one I would rather sell the car,
I would be willing to assist in another set of headers at a reduced price as a customer service gesture First time I hear it I don’t know who doesn’t answer calls or emails

Evo sports knows better I have marketed their headers in the UAE but it’s sad to have no customer support


By the way they have my headers let them explain if they think it can’t be bent

For all the lovers of their AMG I will show you more photos soon of the same problem my friends car the same cheap headers the same mistake

VelocitE55

It does look to be an impact reaction. Car bottomed out or was maybe rear ended at an agle. There has been a lot of drama with Evosport in the recent past, so much so that some including myself are reluctant to go with their parts(not that it matters for me now seeing as my car is destroyed) but this particular case smacks of neglect/mis-use.

benzmodz

I obviously dont have any photos of the supposed problem. So I am talking out of my ____ at best.

NOS would generally make a header warmer than usual. I wonder if the engine mounts let go and twisted the headers under the full weight of the unsupported engine while the metal was white hot.

My comment should be taken on face value as an intelligent guess.

benzmodz

Since your client base includes NOS users and track racers then I would take a serious look at the thickness variations of the metal in the finished product. Without knowing much I would at least look into making some areas thicker.

I dont know much about headers but I did listen very carefully to the discussion about variable thickness engineering and systems perfected by F1.

At the very least I would also look into super-rating the engine mounts with versions designed for power ratings not normally considered by factory production.

NOS + headers + new cooler + ECU and we are talking some obscene stress on the factory parts. Are these factory parts up to the task ?

PTE

For what it may be worth!!. I have seen this before in other engine applications . Not MD stuff . The collector is an area where heat & exhaust pulses migrate together. This will create a hot spot at that small curve , just before the down pipe attachment point. Possibly caused by Lean A/F ratios or some out side source. Air intake temp elevation ? This , with a weak , loose or broken motor mounts , will let the motor rise on one side , giving the metal a twist on the header and a compression at the cars exhaust attachment point . I believe that the header was built right , If it had not . You would also see a tear or broken welds . It is tuff to hand out parts over the counter ,not knowing or seeing the condition of the rest over the car.
We had a big block Chevy Truck with a triple axle boat trailer & a 35 ' 3 engine boat . Stock exhaust lasted 60,000 miles. We put headers & a low restriction mufflers . About 8000 mile later we saw the samething. We had to chain the motor down to limit its movement , under high torque applications , AE Steep boat Launch ramps. By the way Hedman nor Hooker would replace our headers for FREE. We also ate the labor twice. The chain was crude . but it fix our issues

CLS917

Well the car has 35miles & i never heard that a AMG motor mount has gone wrong ever trust me its purely poor quality

Can Drive 55

If it is poor quality, then there will be many more cases with other peolpe. They will post their photos and you will win your argument.

Evolution Marine

CLS917 - Sir, you obviously do not know what caused this damage to your Evo Headers, and you obviously do not have the technical knowledge to make any judgments about product quality. I think you owe Evo Sport an apology for trying to create a poor quality image for Evo's Headers.

It does not matter if the headers only have 35 miles on them. I will put it in a pure and simple way so you can hopefully understand what happened. Those headers have had some external mechanical force applied to them that caused this damage, PERIOD!!!! END OF STORY!!!!

The more you disagree with this the more foolish & ignorant you look.

So, now take your pathetic, foolish,& ignorant attempt at flaming Evo. Sport somewhere else. - Bob

ClayJ

I've never, ever, run NOS through one of my cars. And I don't inject heroin into my body either. Both for obvious reasons....
AMG cars are NOT dragsters. I don't care how wellmade the car is, how well it is engineered, how high the quality of the materials and engineering in the design of its mechanicals - or how high the quality of Evosport's parts obviously is - if you were running NOS through this car in all actuality you are probably lucky that more didn't go wrong...IMO.
Consider yourself lucky that you've learned this lesson at a relatively early age, and at a relatively cheap cost -- it could have been alot worse. It could be a lot worse the next time you do something stupid like this.....

vraa

Because they are expensive?
http://www.wola.org/ddhr/graph_heroin.pdf

Give it time bro, it'll get significantly cheaper..

PTE

Jee . I was just trying to get him the benefit of doubt , of him not knowing if something bumping or twisting his exhaust up.HUMMMMM! . The cars operator may not felt or heard anything . In that short of time (35 miles)?? Bob . I guest you hit it on the head. know nothin , fear nothin. I've seen threads on this forum about weak mounts in older MBs. It's not to say a new mtr mount cann't be on the weak side of its application , ( HP increase ) I hope this guy finds a resolution for his issue. Good luck . I had hope that maybe some light was shed .

c55m8o

to you I say HAHAHAHAHA ... I support the idea of "you get what you pay for", which you got or didn't get depending on how you look @ it -- you see, while these header's gauge is probably adequate for normally fueled cars and 99.99% of the people who would use them, just like how thick gauge nickle coated steal headers are better for turbo manifolds, so is a thicker manifold better in NOS applications. Live & learn. Also, I certainly won't agree with you regarding "AMG motor mounts". They're not magical ... they will fail. they failed on me. They've failed on more people's AMG and non AMG benzes then I can count; it's well documented on this and other boards. And we're pushing probably less then 1/2 to 1/3 the torque to them as you are/were.