AMG CLS55 vs. AMG CLS63 - Moroso Drag Strip Results - Sept 29th 2006
09-30-2006, 10:03 PM
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'10 Panamera S, '06 AMG CLS55, '07 Miata MX5, '02 MB SPRINTER, '99 Spec Miata Race Car (2X)
AMG CLS55 vs. AMG CLS63 - Moroso Drag Strip Results - Sept 29th 2006
Hi to all who have waited patiently for the results of our drag race
Let's set the scene
MHK and I met up at Moroso at 6pm on Friday 29th Sept. MHK is a great guy and both he and I had nothing to prove – it was purely to put the rumors to bed. No egos, no pride, just good times. MHK, thanks buddy – really appreciate you making the time.
MHK has an 06 AMG CLS63 with approx 1500 miles and I have an 06 AMG CLS55 with approx 4,500 miles. Both are black – his obsidian black, mine is regular black. Both our cars are absolutely stock including tires. Both of us left our front tire pressures at normal (around 45psi) and set our rears at around 25/26 psi. MHK had ¾ tank of gas – I had ½ tank.
I have a fair amount of experience at the track – both on circuits and at the drags, and I have been able to get my old E55 to launch with 60ft times in the 1.78 range quite consistently – that will let you know that I have some experience in launching the 55k motors. I have run 12.169 with my old E55 and 12.509 with this CLS55 when it had 1,500 miles on the clock in 55 degree weather. Note that the E55 is definitely faster than the CLS55 off the line – most of it due to the 18” tires giving much more grip than the 19”.
Note that I most certainly didn’t start out with 60ft times like that – when I first started I struggled to break under 2 seconds, so experience is definitely a big factor in launching these cars, unlike some have posted before. This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
Temperature was around 86 when we arrived with Relative Humidity in the high 70’s. Not ideal for drags, but hopefully sufficient to put some debate to rest (or add to it). We each did 5 runs and in each one of them we were able to line up against each other. We swapped lanes after each run to remove lane condition as a variable. There was zero track preparation, until after intermission – only then did they brush it and apply VHT. There was a new 07 Z06 running low 12’s at 115mph so you will get an idea of the track conditions.
Below you will see all 5 time slips. On each time slip we indicated our settings and we also deducted the 1/8 mile time from the ¼ mile time to get the time of the last 1/8 mile - this partly removes the launch as a factor and can give a better idea of the horsepower at work in each car, to help end the horsepower debate. I will let you draw your own conclusions. Here is a race by race summary
Race 1. - we were the 2nd set of cars down the lane and were both caught off guard. Both cars ESP off – suspension in Comfort mode, transmission in Sport mode. Neither of us could do a burnout with ESP off . So tires cold, track greasy. I got greedy off the line and matted it getting a lot of wheelspin but kept it straight – was spinning to the 1/8th where I had to briefly let off and get on it again. Mys slowest time down the ¼ mile to date.
Winner CLS63 13.656 @ 107.41 last 1/8 4.499
Loser CLS55 14.079 @ 107.69 last 1/8 4.644
Race 2. (Only 21 minutes later) MHK left his ESP on by mistake – My ESP was off – still not able to do any burnouts as before (and I have never been able to do them in this car with ESP off – unlike the E55 which would do them all day long with ESP off – with the CLS I have to go to Dyno mode). Let the rear end settle as I came off the line and then fed in the gas. Still horrible times for both – attribute to track and weather conditions.
Winner CLS55 13.204 @ 110.07 last 1/8 4.523
Loser CLS63 13.656 @ 108.85 last 1/8 4.552
Race 3. (32 minutes later) By now we had both put our cars in DYNO mode. I was able to do decent burnout – MHK didn’t. I felt I had an OK launch but I still wasn’t getting the good rear end set. MHK felt he had a bad run. (don’t remember why)
Winner CLS55 13.197 @ 109.06 last 1/8 4.557
Loser CLS63 13.630 @ 106.97 last 1/8 4.601
Race 4. (43 minutes later) We were both in DYNO mode. We were both able to do decent burnouts. I had a good launch – I felt the back settle like normal but the track was still greasy and I wasn’t able to mat it early. Was expecting a decent time
Winner CLS55 12.942 @ 109.30 last 1/8 4.555
Loser CLS63 13.420 @ 108.68 last 1/8 4.555
Race 5. (1hour 20 minutes later – after intermission and track preparation). Both cars in Dyno mode – both did decent burnouts. I knew there would be more grip but still somehow didn’t get on the gas early enough. I had a decent launch but not my best.
Winner CLS55 12.879 @ 109.83 last 1/8 4.535
Loser CLS63 13.502 @ 109.17 last 1/8 4.536
So there you have the results. The CLS55 was the overall winner for sure, which we all expected on the ¼ mile where torque is vital to get out the gates. And my experience at the strip definitely made a difference. (MHK very generously did offer to let me run his car but I wasn’t keen to wait another hour for a last run)
As for the horsepower debate……. as you can see from the trap speeds and the last 1/8 mile times, our cars are almost identical – so either the 55 is making more than quoted (often hinted at) or the 63 is making less than quoted (the debate at hand). I was definitely expecting better trap speeds from the 63 (for instance teh M5 times which are normally 2-3 mph faster than the E55’s through the traps on the same day which effectively demonstrates the approximately 40HP difference – 469 to 500, but this did not happen with the 63.
After our 5th run we decided to do a few more tests on the public road. We did 3 runs rolling at 40-50mph and punched it in 2nd.gear taking it up to just over 100mph (still early Friday evening and neither of us wanted to go to jail, so the debate as to who gets to 150mph first will have to wait for another time). My wife was with me in the car – MHK was on his own. No matter what whoever got drop, stayed ahead. If I got it, I had him. If he got it, he had me. 3 rolling runs and the same result each time.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
Here are the Time Slips
Here are videos of Races 2 through 5 (not enough time to get setup for race 1)
Let's set the scene
MHK and I met up at Moroso at 6pm on Friday 29th Sept. MHK is a great guy and both he and I had nothing to prove – it was purely to put the rumors to bed. No egos, no pride, just good times. MHK, thanks buddy – really appreciate you making the time.
MHK has an 06 AMG CLS63 with approx 1500 miles and I have an 06 AMG CLS55 with approx 4,500 miles. Both are black – his obsidian black, mine is regular black. Both our cars are absolutely stock including tires. Both of us left our front tire pressures at normal (around 45psi) and set our rears at around 25/26 psi. MHK had ¾ tank of gas – I had ½ tank.
I have a fair amount of experience at the track – both on circuits and at the drags, and I have been able to get my old E55 to launch with 60ft times in the 1.78 range quite consistently – that will let you know that I have some experience in launching the 55k motors. I have run 12.169 with my old E55 and 12.509 with this CLS55 when it had 1,500 miles on the clock in 55 degree weather. Note that the E55 is definitely faster than the CLS55 off the line – most of it due to the 18” tires giving much more grip than the 19”.
Note that I most certainly didn’t start out with 60ft times like that – when I first started I struggled to break under 2 seconds, so experience is definitely a big factor in launching these cars, unlike some have posted before. This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
Temperature was around 86 when we arrived with Relative Humidity in the high 70’s. Not ideal for drags, but hopefully sufficient to put some debate to rest (or add to it). We each did 5 runs and in each one of them we were able to line up against each other. We swapped lanes after each run to remove lane condition as a variable. There was zero track preparation, until after intermission – only then did they brush it and apply VHT. There was a new 07 Z06 running low 12’s at 115mph so you will get an idea of the track conditions.
Below you will see all 5 time slips. On each time slip we indicated our settings and we also deducted the 1/8 mile time from the ¼ mile time to get the time of the last 1/8 mile - this partly removes the launch as a factor and can give a better idea of the horsepower at work in each car, to help end the horsepower debate. I will let you draw your own conclusions. Here is a race by race summary
Race 1. - we were the 2nd set of cars down the lane and were both caught off guard. Both cars ESP off – suspension in Comfort mode, transmission in Sport mode. Neither of us could do a burnout with ESP off . So tires cold, track greasy. I got greedy off the line and matted it getting a lot of wheelspin but kept it straight – was spinning to the 1/8th where I had to briefly let off and get on it again. Mys slowest time down the ¼ mile to date.
Winner CLS63 13.656 @ 107.41 last 1/8 4.499
Loser CLS55 14.079 @ 107.69 last 1/8 4.644
Race 2. (Only 21 minutes later) MHK left his ESP on by mistake – My ESP was off – still not able to do any burnouts as before (and I have never been able to do them in this car with ESP off – unlike the E55 which would do them all day long with ESP off – with the CLS I have to go to Dyno mode). Let the rear end settle as I came off the line and then fed in the gas. Still horrible times for both – attribute to track and weather conditions.
Winner CLS55 13.204 @ 110.07 last 1/8 4.523
Loser CLS63 13.656 @ 108.85 last 1/8 4.552
Race 3. (32 minutes later) By now we had both put our cars in DYNO mode. I was able to do decent burnout – MHK didn’t. I felt I had an OK launch but I still wasn’t getting the good rear end set. MHK felt he had a bad run. (don’t remember why)
Winner CLS55 13.197 @ 109.06 last 1/8 4.557
Loser CLS63 13.630 @ 106.97 last 1/8 4.601
Race 4. (43 minutes later) We were both in DYNO mode. We were both able to do decent burnouts. I had a good launch – I felt the back settle like normal but the track was still greasy and I wasn’t able to mat it early. Was expecting a decent time
Winner CLS55 12.942 @ 109.30 last 1/8 4.555
Loser CLS63 13.420 @ 108.68 last 1/8 4.555
Race 5. (1hour 20 minutes later – after intermission and track preparation). Both cars in Dyno mode – both did decent burnouts. I knew there would be more grip but still somehow didn’t get on the gas early enough. I had a decent launch but not my best.
Winner CLS55 12.879 @ 109.83 last 1/8 4.535
Loser CLS63 13.502 @ 109.17 last 1/8 4.536
So there you have the results. The CLS55 was the overall winner for sure, which we all expected on the ¼ mile where torque is vital to get out the gates. And my experience at the strip definitely made a difference. (MHK very generously did offer to let me run his car but I wasn’t keen to wait another hour for a last run)
As for the horsepower debate……. as you can see from the trap speeds and the last 1/8 mile times, our cars are almost identical – so either the 55 is making more than quoted (often hinted at) or the 63 is making less than quoted (the debate at hand). I was definitely expecting better trap speeds from the 63 (for instance teh M5 times which are normally 2-3 mph faster than the E55’s through the traps on the same day which effectively demonstrates the approximately 40HP difference – 469 to 500, but this did not happen with the 63.
After our 5th run we decided to do a few more tests on the public road. We did 3 runs rolling at 40-50mph and punched it in 2nd.gear taking it up to just over 100mph (still early Friday evening and neither of us wanted to go to jail, so the debate as to who gets to 150mph first will have to wait for another time). My wife was with me in the car – MHK was on his own. No matter what whoever got drop, stayed ahead. If I got it, I had him. If he got it, he had me. 3 rolling runs and the same result each time.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
Here are the Time Slips
Here are videos of Races 2 through 5 (not enough time to get setup for race 1)
Last edited by siswati; 09-30-2006 at 10:09 PM.
09-30-2006, 10:14 PM
#2
Hi to all who have waited patiently for the results of our drag race
Let's set the scene
MHK and I met up at Moroso at 6pm on Friday 29th Sept. MHK is a great guy and both he and I had nothing to prove – it was purely to put the rumors to bed. No egos, no pride, just good times. MHK, thanks buddy – really appreciate you making the time.
MHK has an 06 AMG CLS63 with approx 1500 miles and I have an 06 AMG CLS55 with approx 4,500 miles. Both are black – his obsidian black, mine is regular black. Both our cars are absolutely stock including tires. Both of us left our front tire pressures at normal (around 45psi) and set our rears at around 25/26 psi. MHK had ¾ tank of gas – I had ½ tank.
I have a fair amount of experience at the track – both on circuits and at the drags, and I have been able to get my old E55 to launch with 60ft times in the 1.78 range quite consistently – that will let you know that I have some experience in launching the 55k motors. I have run 12.169 with my old E55 and 12.509 with this CLS55 when it had 1,500 miles on the clock in 55 degree weather. Note that the E55 is definitely faster than the CLS55 off the line – most of it due to the 18” tires giving much more grip than the 19”.
Note that I most certainly didn’t start out with 60ft times like that – when I first started I struggled to break under 2 seconds, so experience is definitely a big factor in launching these cars, unlike some have posted before. This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
Temperature was around 86 when we arrived with Relative Humidity in the high 70’s. Not ideal for drags, but hopefully sufficient to put some debate to rest (or add to it). We each did 5 runs and in each one of them we were able to line up against each other. We swapped lanes after each run to remove lane condition as a variable. There was zero track preparation, until after intermission – only then did they brush it and apply VHT. There was a new 07 Z06 running low 12’s at 115mph so you will get an idea of the track conditions.
Below you will see all 5 time slips. On each time slip we indicated our settings and we also deducted the 1/8 mile time from the ¼ mile time to get the time of the last 1/8 mile - this partly removes the launch as a factor and can give a better idea of the horsepower at work in each car, to help end the horsepower debate. I will let you draw your own conclusions. Here is a race by race summary
Race 1. - we were the 2nd set of cars down the lane and were both caught off guard. Both cars ESP off – suspension in Comfort mode, transmission in Sport mode. Neither of us could do a burnout with ESP off . So tires cold, track greasy. I got greedy off the line and matted it getting a lot of wheelspin but kept it straight – was spinning to the 1/8th where I had to briefly let off and get on it again. Mys slowest time down the ¼ mile to date.
Winner CLS63 13.656 @ 107.41 last 1/8 4.499
Loser CLS55 14.079 @ 107.69 last 1/8 4.644
Race 2. (Only 21 minutes later) MHK left his ESP on by mistake – My ESP was off – still not able to do any burnouts as before (and I have never been able to do them in this car with ESP off – unlike the E55 which would do them all day long with ESP off – with the CLS I have to go to Dyno mode). Let the rear end settle as I came off the line and then fed in the gas. Still horrible times for both – attribute to track and weather conditions.
Winner CLS55 13.204 @ 110.07 last 1/8 4.523
Loser CLS63 13.656 @ 108.85 last 1/8 4.552
Race 3. (32 minutes later) By now we had both put our cars in DYNO mode. I was able to do decent burnout – MHK didn’t. I felt I had an OK launch but I still wasn’t getting the good rear end set. MHK felt he had a bad run. (don’t remember why)
Winner CLS55 13.197 @ 109.06 last 1/8 4.557
Loser CLS63 13.630 @ 106.97 last 1/8 4.601
Race 4. (43 minutes later) We were both in DYNO mode. We were both able to do decent burnouts. I had a good launch – I felt the back settle like normal but the track was still greasy and I wasn’t able to mat it early. Was expecting a decent time
Winner CLS55 12.942 @ 109.30 last 1/8 4.555
Loser CLS63 13.420 @ 108.68 last 1/8 4.555
Race 5. (1hour 20 minutes later – after intermission and track preparation). Both cars in Dyno mode – both did decent burnouts. I knew there would be more grip but still somehow didn’t get on the gas early enough. I had a decent launch but not my best.
Winner CLS55 12.879 @ 109.83 last 1/8 4.535
Loser CLS63 13.502 @ 109.17 last 1/8 4.536
So there you have the results. The CLS55 was the overall winner for sure, which we all expected on the ¼ mile where torque is vital to get out the gates. And my experience at the strip definitely made a difference. (MHK very generously did offer to let me run his car but I wasn’t keen to wait another hour for a last run)
As for the horsepower debate……. as you can see from the trap speeds and the last 1/8 mile times, our cars are almost identical – so either the 55 is making more than quoted (often hinted at) or the 63 is making less than quoted (the debate at hand). I was definitely expecting better trap speeds from the 63 (for instance teh M5 times which are normally 2-3 mph faster than the E55’s through the traps on the same day which effectively demonstrates the approximately 40HP difference – 469 to 500, but this did not happen with the 63.
After our 5th run we decided to do a few more tests on the public road. We did 3 runs rolling at 40-50mph and punched it in 2nd.gear taking it up to just over 100mph (still early Friday evening and neither of us wanted to go to jail, so the debate as to who gets to 150mph first will have to wait for another time). My wife was with me in the car – MHK was on his own. No matter what whoever got drop, stayed ahead. If I got it, I had him. If he got it, he had me. 3 rolling runs and the same result each time.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
Here are the Time Slips
Here are videos of Races 2 through 5 (not enough time to get setup for race 1)
Let's set the scene
MHK and I met up at Moroso at 6pm on Friday 29th Sept. MHK is a great guy and both he and I had nothing to prove – it was purely to put the rumors to bed. No egos, no pride, just good times. MHK, thanks buddy – really appreciate you making the time.
MHK has an 06 AMG CLS63 with approx 1500 miles and I have an 06 AMG CLS55 with approx 4,500 miles. Both are black – his obsidian black, mine is regular black. Both our cars are absolutely stock including tires. Both of us left our front tire pressures at normal (around 45psi) and set our rears at around 25/26 psi. MHK had ¾ tank of gas – I had ½ tank.
I have a fair amount of experience at the track – both on circuits and at the drags, and I have been able to get my old E55 to launch with 60ft times in the 1.78 range quite consistently – that will let you know that I have some experience in launching the 55k motors. I have run 12.169 with my old E55 and 12.509 with this CLS55 when it had 1,500 miles on the clock in 55 degree weather. Note that the E55 is definitely faster than the CLS55 off the line – most of it due to the 18” tires giving much more grip than the 19”.
Note that I most certainly didn’t start out with 60ft times like that – when I first started I struggled to break under 2 seconds, so experience is definitely a big factor in launching these cars, unlike some have posted before. This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
Temperature was around 86 when we arrived with Relative Humidity in the high 70’s. Not ideal for drags, but hopefully sufficient to put some debate to rest (or add to it). We each did 5 runs and in each one of them we were able to line up against each other. We swapped lanes after each run to remove lane condition as a variable. There was zero track preparation, until after intermission – only then did they brush it and apply VHT. There was a new 07 Z06 running low 12’s at 115mph so you will get an idea of the track conditions.
Below you will see all 5 time slips. On each time slip we indicated our settings and we also deducted the 1/8 mile time from the ¼ mile time to get the time of the last 1/8 mile - this partly removes the launch as a factor and can give a better idea of the horsepower at work in each car, to help end the horsepower debate. I will let you draw your own conclusions. Here is a race by race summary
Race 1. - we were the 2nd set of cars down the lane and were both caught off guard. Both cars ESP off – suspension in Comfort mode, transmission in Sport mode. Neither of us could do a burnout with ESP off . So tires cold, track greasy. I got greedy off the line and matted it getting a lot of wheelspin but kept it straight – was spinning to the 1/8th where I had to briefly let off and get on it again. Mys slowest time down the ¼ mile to date.
Winner CLS63 13.656 @ 107.41 last 1/8 4.499
Loser CLS55 14.079 @ 107.69 last 1/8 4.644
Race 2. (Only 21 minutes later) MHK left his ESP on by mistake – My ESP was off – still not able to do any burnouts as before (and I have never been able to do them in this car with ESP off – unlike the E55 which would do them all day long with ESP off – with the CLS I have to go to Dyno mode). Let the rear end settle as I came off the line and then fed in the gas. Still horrible times for both – attribute to track and weather conditions.
Winner CLS55 13.204 @ 110.07 last 1/8 4.523
Loser CLS63 13.656 @ 108.85 last 1/8 4.552
Race 3. (32 minutes later) By now we had both put our cars in DYNO mode. I was able to do decent burnout – MHK didn’t. I felt I had an OK launch but I still wasn’t getting the good rear end set. MHK felt he had a bad run. (don’t remember why)
Winner CLS55 13.197 @ 109.06 last 1/8 4.557
Loser CLS63 13.630 @ 106.97 last 1/8 4.601
Race 4. (43 minutes later) We were both in DYNO mode. We were both able to do decent burnouts. I had a good launch – I felt the back settle like normal but the track was still greasy and I wasn’t able to mat it early. Was expecting a decent time
Winner CLS55 12.942 @ 109.30 last 1/8 4.555
Loser CLS63 13.420 @ 108.68 last 1/8 4.555
Race 5. (1hour 20 minutes later – after intermission and track preparation). Both cars in Dyno mode – both did decent burnouts. I knew there would be more grip but still somehow didn’t get on the gas early enough. I had a decent launch but not my best.
Winner CLS55 12.879 @ 109.83 last 1/8 4.535
Loser CLS63 13.502 @ 109.17 last 1/8 4.536
So there you have the results. The CLS55 was the overall winner for sure, which we all expected on the ¼ mile where torque is vital to get out the gates. And my experience at the strip definitely made a difference. (MHK very generously did offer to let me run his car but I wasn’t keen to wait another hour for a last run)
As for the horsepower debate……. as you can see from the trap speeds and the last 1/8 mile times, our cars are almost identical – so either the 55 is making more than quoted (often hinted at) or the 63 is making less than quoted (the debate at hand). I was definitely expecting better trap speeds from the 63 (for instance teh M5 times which are normally 2-3 mph faster than the E55’s through the traps on the same day which effectively demonstrates the approximately 40HP difference – 469 to 500, but this did not happen with the 63.
After our 5th run we decided to do a few more tests on the public road. We did 3 runs rolling at 40-50mph and punched it in 2nd.gear taking it up to just over 100mph (still early Friday evening and neither of us wanted to go to jail, so the debate as to who gets to 150mph first will have to wait for another time). My wife was with me in the car – MHK was on his own. No matter what whoever got drop, stayed ahead. If I got it, I had him. If he got it, he had me. 3 rolling runs and the same result each time.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
Here are the Time Slips
Here are videos of Races 2 through 5 (not enough time to get setup for race 1)
Ted
09-30-2006, 11:04 PM
#5
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nice write up > NO BS there guys.
That being said just look at how consistant the CLS63 times were. Within 2secs from 1st race to last. Traps were consistant with what derek got also in his E63. Great info. Now we need a E55 vs E63
That being said just look at how consistant the CLS63 times were. Within 2secs from 1st race to last. Traps were consistant with what derek got also in his E63. Great info. Now we need a E55 vs E63
09-30-2006, 11:21 PM
#6
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07 SL550; C32 (sold)
looks like it's official now. the 63's are stuck in the 13.x second range for the 1/4 mile. nothing to write home about and not sure if the 20k premium is worth it.
09-30-2006, 11:22 PM
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
thanks for the detailed write up..... the trap speeds pretty much show the cars as being even.... better weather and launchs should have both cars in the mid 12's easily.....
now we need back to back dyno's of a 55 and 63 car....
I think the 55's are just underrated, and both cars make very similar power....
I'm ready to do another track rental as soon as the cold fronts start coming....
now we need back to back dyno's of a 55 and 63 car....
I think the 55's are just underrated, and both cars make very similar power....I'm ready to do another track rental as soon as the cold fronts start coming....
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09-30-2006, 11:29 PM
#8
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MB S63 AMG Coupe
The only thing I will reiterate, As was already done, was that this was my first time out. Rest assured, I will be hitting the track very soon to see if I can improve my starts off the line. As you will see in the video, I was slow to react on some of the runs...........
10-01-2006, 12:07 AM
#9
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Beautiful car. Thanks for making the runs. Cheers!
10-01-2006, 12:35 AM
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2012 SLS AMG
Thanks for the Vids and putting your car on the track against the 55. Seems you are indeed correct, he got the drop on you in almost all the races. I'm sure w/ practice you will be better. Most of us, myself included, have never been on a track and applaud your efforts. Do us 63 guys proud....
10-01-2006, 01:53 AM
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CLS63 AMG
Nice write up.
Congrats.
One question, you mentioned your CLS55 is slower than your E55 because of the 19 inch wheels? Can you explain that logic to me? I thought with your 030 package, you would have a better launch?
amgBG
Congrats.
One question, you mentioned your CLS55 is slower than your E55 because of the 19 inch wheels? Can you explain that logic to me? I thought with your 030 package, you would have a better launch?
amgBG
Hi to all who have waited patiently for the results of our drag race
Let's set the scene
MHK and I met up at Moroso at 6pm on Friday 29th Sept. MHK is a great guy and both he and I had nothing to prove – it was purely to put the rumors to bed. No egos, no pride, just good times. MHK, thanks buddy – really appreciate you making the time.
MHK has an 06 AMG CLS63 with approx 1500 miles and I have an 06 AMG CLS55 with approx 4,500 miles. Both are black – his obsidian black, mine is regular black. Both our cars are absolutely stock including tires. Both of us left our front tire pressures at normal (around 45psi) and set our rears at around 25/26 psi. MHK had ¾ tank of gas – I had ½ tank.
I have a fair amount of experience at the track – both on circuits and at the drags, and I have been able to get my old E55 to launch with 60ft times in the 1.78 range quite consistently – that will let you know that I have some experience in launching the 55k motors. I have run 12.169 with my old E55 and 12.509 with this CLS55 when it had 1,500 miles on the clock in 55 degree weather. Note that the E55 is definitely faster than the CLS55 off the line – most of it due to the 18” tires giving much more grip than the 19”.
Note that I most certainly didn’t start out with 60ft times like that – when I first started I struggled to break under 2 seconds, so experience is definitely a big factor in launching these cars, unlike some have posted before. This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
Temperature was around 86 when we arrived with Relative Humidity in the high 70’s. Not ideal for drags, but hopefully sufficient to put some debate to rest (or add to it). We each did 5 runs and in each one of them we were able to line up against each other. We swapped lanes after each run to remove lane condition as a variable. There was zero track preparation, until after intermission – only then did they brush it and apply VHT. There was a new 07 Z06 running low 12’s at 115mph so you will get an idea of the track conditions.
Below you will see all 5 time slips. On each time slip we indicated our settings and we also deducted the 1/8 mile time from the ¼ mile time to get the time of the last 1/8 mile - this partly removes the launch as a factor and can give a better idea of the horsepower at work in each car, to help end the horsepower debate. I will let you draw your own conclusions. Here is a race by race summary
Race 1. - we were the 2nd set of cars down the lane and were both caught off guard. Both cars ESP off – suspension in Comfort mode, transmission in Sport mode. Neither of us could do a burnout with ESP off . So tires cold, track greasy. I got greedy off the line and matted it getting a lot of wheelspin but kept it straight – was spinning to the 1/8th where I had to briefly let off and get on it again. Mys slowest time down the ¼ mile to date.
Winner CLS63 13.656 @ 107.41 last 1/8 4.499
Loser CLS55 14.079 @ 107.69 last 1/8 4.644
Race 2. (Only 21 minutes later) MHK left his ESP on by mistake – My ESP was off – still not able to do any burnouts as before (and I have never been able to do them in this car with ESP off – unlike the E55 which would do them all day long with ESP off – with the CLS I have to go to Dyno mode). Let the rear end settle as I came off the line and then fed in the gas. Still horrible times for both – attribute to track and weather conditions.
Winner CLS55 13.204 @ 110.07 last 1/8 4.523
Loser CLS63 13.656 @ 108.85 last 1/8 4.552
Race 3. (32 minutes later) By now we had both put our cars in DYNO mode. I was able to do decent burnout – MHK didn’t. I felt I had an OK launch but I still wasn’t getting the good rear end set. MHK felt he had a bad run. (don’t remember why)
Winner CLS55 13.197 @ 109.06 last 1/8 4.557
Loser CLS63 13.630 @ 106.97 last 1/8 4.601
Race 4. (43 minutes later) We were both in DYNO mode. We were both able to do decent burnouts. I had a good launch – I felt the back settle like normal but the track was still greasy and I wasn’t able to mat it early. Was expecting a decent time
Winner CLS55 12.942 @ 109.30 last 1/8 4.555
Loser CLS63 13.420 @ 108.68 last 1/8 4.555
Race 5. (1hour 20 minutes later – after intermission and track preparation). Both cars in Dyno mode – both did decent burnouts. I knew there would be more grip but still somehow didn’t get on the gas early enough. I had a decent launch but not my best.
Winner CLS55 12.879 @ 109.83 last 1/8 4.535
Loser CLS63 13.502 @ 109.17 last 1/8 4.536
So there you have the results. The CLS55 was the overall winner for sure, which we all expected on the ¼ mile where torque is vital to get out the gates. And my experience at the strip definitely made a difference. (MHK very generously did offer to let me run his car but I wasn’t keen to wait another hour for a last run)
As for the horsepower debate……. as you can see from the trap speeds and the last 1/8 mile times, our cars are almost identical – so either the 55 is making more than quoted (often hinted at) or the 63 is making less than quoted (the debate at hand). I was definitely expecting better trap speeds from the 63 (for instance teh M5 times which are normally 2-3 mph faster than the E55’s through the traps on the same day which effectively demonstrates the approximately 40HP difference – 469 to 500, but this did not happen with the 63.
After our 5th run we decided to do a few more tests on the public road. We did 3 runs rolling at 40-50mph and punched it in 2nd.gear taking it up to just over 100mph (still early Friday evening and neither of us wanted to go to jail, so the debate as to who gets to 150mph first will have to wait for another time). My wife was with me in the car – MHK was on his own. No matter what whoever got drop, stayed ahead. If I got it, I had him. If he got it, he had me. 3 rolling runs and the same result each time.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
Here are the Time Slips
Here are videos of Races 2 through 5 (not enough time to get setup for race 1)
Let's set the scene
MHK and I met up at Moroso at 6pm on Friday 29th Sept. MHK is a great guy and both he and I had nothing to prove – it was purely to put the rumors to bed. No egos, no pride, just good times. MHK, thanks buddy – really appreciate you making the time.
MHK has an 06 AMG CLS63 with approx 1500 miles and I have an 06 AMG CLS55 with approx 4,500 miles. Both are black – his obsidian black, mine is regular black. Both our cars are absolutely stock including tires. Both of us left our front tire pressures at normal (around 45psi) and set our rears at around 25/26 psi. MHK had ¾ tank of gas – I had ½ tank.
I have a fair amount of experience at the track – both on circuits and at the drags, and I have been able to get my old E55 to launch with 60ft times in the 1.78 range quite consistently – that will let you know that I have some experience in launching the 55k motors. I have run 12.169 with my old E55 and 12.509 with this CLS55 when it had 1,500 miles on the clock in 55 degree weather. Note that the E55 is definitely faster than the CLS55 off the line – most of it due to the 18” tires giving much more grip than the 19”.
Note that I most certainly didn’t start out with 60ft times like that – when I first started I struggled to break under 2 seconds, so experience is definitely a big factor in launching these cars, unlike some have posted before. This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
Temperature was around 86 when we arrived with Relative Humidity in the high 70’s. Not ideal for drags, but hopefully sufficient to put some debate to rest (or add to it). We each did 5 runs and in each one of them we were able to line up against each other. We swapped lanes after each run to remove lane condition as a variable. There was zero track preparation, until after intermission – only then did they brush it and apply VHT. There was a new 07 Z06 running low 12’s at 115mph so you will get an idea of the track conditions.
Below you will see all 5 time slips. On each time slip we indicated our settings and we also deducted the 1/8 mile time from the ¼ mile time to get the time of the last 1/8 mile - this partly removes the launch as a factor and can give a better idea of the horsepower at work in each car, to help end the horsepower debate. I will let you draw your own conclusions. Here is a race by race summary
Race 1. - we were the 2nd set of cars down the lane and were both caught off guard. Both cars ESP off – suspension in Comfort mode, transmission in Sport mode. Neither of us could do a burnout with ESP off . So tires cold, track greasy. I got greedy off the line and matted it getting a lot of wheelspin but kept it straight – was spinning to the 1/8th where I had to briefly let off and get on it again. Mys slowest time down the ¼ mile to date.
Winner CLS63 13.656 @ 107.41 last 1/8 4.499
Loser CLS55 14.079 @ 107.69 last 1/8 4.644
Race 2. (Only 21 minutes later) MHK left his ESP on by mistake – My ESP was off – still not able to do any burnouts as before (and I have never been able to do them in this car with ESP off – unlike the E55 which would do them all day long with ESP off – with the CLS I have to go to Dyno mode). Let the rear end settle as I came off the line and then fed in the gas. Still horrible times for both – attribute to track and weather conditions.
Winner CLS55 13.204 @ 110.07 last 1/8 4.523
Loser CLS63 13.656 @ 108.85 last 1/8 4.552
Race 3. (32 minutes later) By now we had both put our cars in DYNO mode. I was able to do decent burnout – MHK didn’t. I felt I had an OK launch but I still wasn’t getting the good rear end set. MHK felt he had a bad run. (don’t remember why)
Winner CLS55 13.197 @ 109.06 last 1/8 4.557
Loser CLS63 13.630 @ 106.97 last 1/8 4.601
Race 4. (43 minutes later) We were both in DYNO mode. We were both able to do decent burnouts. I had a good launch – I felt the back settle like normal but the track was still greasy and I wasn’t able to mat it early. Was expecting a decent time
Winner CLS55 12.942 @ 109.30 last 1/8 4.555
Loser CLS63 13.420 @ 108.68 last 1/8 4.555
Race 5. (1hour 20 minutes later – after intermission and track preparation). Both cars in Dyno mode – both did decent burnouts. I knew there would be more grip but still somehow didn’t get on the gas early enough. I had a decent launch but not my best.
Winner CLS55 12.879 @ 109.83 last 1/8 4.535
Loser CLS63 13.502 @ 109.17 last 1/8 4.536
So there you have the results. The CLS55 was the overall winner for sure, which we all expected on the ¼ mile where torque is vital to get out the gates. And my experience at the strip definitely made a difference. (MHK very generously did offer to let me run his car but I wasn’t keen to wait another hour for a last run)
As for the horsepower debate……. as you can see from the trap speeds and the last 1/8 mile times, our cars are almost identical – so either the 55 is making more than quoted (often hinted at) or the 63 is making less than quoted (the debate at hand). I was definitely expecting better trap speeds from the 63 (for instance teh M5 times which are normally 2-3 mph faster than the E55’s through the traps on the same day which effectively demonstrates the approximately 40HP difference – 469 to 500, but this did not happen with the 63.
After our 5th run we decided to do a few more tests on the public road. We did 3 runs rolling at 40-50mph and punched it in 2nd.gear taking it up to just over 100mph (still early Friday evening and neither of us wanted to go to jail, so the debate as to who gets to 150mph first will have to wait for another time). My wife was with me in the car – MHK was on his own. No matter what whoever got drop, stayed ahead. If I got it, I had him. If he got it, he had me. 3 rolling runs and the same result each time.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
Here are the Time Slips
Here are videos of Races 2 through 5 (not enough time to get setup for race 1)
10-01-2006, 08:07 AM
#15
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
the CLS is heavier and will be a little slower than the E..... MB website says 4,210 pounds for the CLS63 and 4,035 pounds for the E63..... I weighed my E55 at 4060 pounds.....
The E is also a little more aerodynamic, .29 E vs .31 CLS....
The E is also a little more aerodynamic, .29 E vs .31 CLS....
Last edited by Fikse; 10-01-2006 at 08:10 AM.
10-01-2006, 08:43 AM
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05 E55, R33 GTR, R33 GTS-t
If i understand correctly, you have a stiffer and thinner sidewall on a 19inch compared to an 18inch rim (in the same application). This will affect traction off the line as a softer sidewall tyre will squish on the squat of the launch and allow a bit of "give" allowing the treadblocks to bite better. running 20's would be worse again i imagine.
I am really interested in seeing how Jangy hooks up off the line with his new setup, as he is going against the norm of larger diameter in favour of fatter 18's. This is what id like to do also!
can someone explain how to do a burnout in an e55 with the esp off but not in dyno mode?!? i can get it bagging but as soon as i touch the brakes a tiny bit, it stops the burnout. And why can the CLS not do one with ESP off?
10-01-2006, 10:24 AM
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'10 Panamera S, '06 AMG CLS55, '07 Miata MX5, '02 MB SPRINTER, '99 Spec Miata Race Car (2X)
I wouldnt go so far out on a limb to say that the 63 is a 13.x car
Note that I have had my CLS55 at 12.5 with better weather - thats .35 seconds faster than last night. Take .35 off the CLS 63 and you have a 12.x second car without a problem.
I WILL go out on a limb and agree with Fikse that we will soon see the63NA's with times in the 12.x range. Based on last night I predict mid to high 12's at around 116+ mph in the right conditions from the CLS63 and mid 12's for E63 with similar trap speed
Just my $0.02
10-01-2006, 10:31 AM
#19
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'10 Panamera S, '06 AMG CLS55, '07 Miata MX5, '02 MB SPRINTER, '99 Spec Miata Race Car (2X)
Note that you can get 18" Drag Radials as well as 16" drag radials - note that the two fastest times for E55's were both run on 16" MT DR's - Derek and Albert shared the same rims and tires.
10-01-2006, 11:36 AM
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2010 E550 & 2009 Porsche Cayenne GTS
I have a fair amount of experience at the track – both on circuits and at the drags
This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
This was MHK’s first run at the track and he is also new to the car.
So in my opinion, being there with no axe to grind, no other intention other than establishing if the cars are markedly different, all I can say for sure, is that in the speeds under 110 mph the 55k motor will win you more races than the 63 motor. As to differences, I don’t see the presence of the extra 40 horses but I also DEFINTELY do not see the 63 having less horsepower than the 55.
All in all a fun time – maybe leaving us with more questions than answers. I know MHK wants to do it again soon, and so do I, but I am going to wait for decent weather so I can hopefully get some respectful times.
Thanks to both for getting numbers on these models!
10-01-2006, 11:56 AM
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05 E55, R33 GTR, R33 GTS-t
10-01-2006, 12:05 PM
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12 CLS550, 09 CLS550, 04Cooper,10 Cooper S
siswati,
you have a LSD with 030, how does that effect your launch times over a non 030 CLS55?
p.s.> it was awseome of you guys to do this.
you have a LSD with 030, how does that effect your launch times over a non 030 CLS55?
p.s.> it was awseome of you guys to do this.
10-01-2006, 12:06 PM
#23
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If i understand correctly, you have a stiffer and thinner sidewall on a 19inch compared to an 18inch rim (in the same application). This will affect traction off the line as a softer sidewall tyre will squish on the squat of the launch and allow a bit of "give" allowing the treadblocks to bite better. running 20's would be worse again i imagine.
I am really interested in seeing how Jangy hooks up off the line with his new setup, as he is going against the norm of larger diameter in favour of fatter 18's. This is what id like to do also!
can someone explain how to do a burnout in an e55 with the esp off but not in dyno mode?!? i can get it bagging but as soon as i touch the brakes a tiny bit, it stops the burnout. And why can the CLS not do one with ESP off?
I am really interested in seeing how Jangy hooks up off the line with his new setup, as he is going against the norm of larger diameter in favour of fatter 18's. This is what id like to do also!
can someone explain how to do a burnout in an e55 with the esp off but not in dyno mode?!? i can get it bagging but as soon as i touch the brakes a tiny bit, it stops the burnout. And why can the CLS not do one with ESP off?
10-01-2006, 02:54 PM
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'10 Panamera S, '06 AMG CLS55, '07 Miata MX5, '02 MB SPRINTER, '99 Spec Miata Race Car (2X)
Any guys care to post on their own car's ability
Post your build date and ability to do a burnout with ESP off.
10-01-2006, 03:14 PM
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MB S63 AMG Coupe
In order to see 12.x times on a 63, anyone with advice to share with me on improving my launches would be greatly appreciated. I understand the CLS55 has a particular approach that needs to be taken, not sure this is the same for the 63. The first to figure it out, please let me know. In the meantime, I plan to head back in the next few weeks and try to see if I can figure it out myself.
And Siswati, the offer still stands if you want to take a crack at it in the 63.......
And Siswati, the offer still stands if you want to take a crack at it in the 63.......
Last edited by MHK; 10-01-2006 at 03:17 PM.
