whoover

It will never happen (I hope). The V-12 gives a totally different driving experience that makes any V-8 seem crude. It's absolutely addictive. Imagine cruising at 80 in second, right up against the rev limiter, and nobody in the car having the slightest idea. There is never any vibration, just thrust. The 6.2 is a wonderful engine but it doesn't try to deliver that experience. Nor could it.

whoover

Absolutely. That's why just reflashing the ECU/TCU gets Renntech to 670 HP and 1140 Nm. Add their bigger airbox and you're at 685/1180. But the AMG ECU lowers the boost at the engine's natural torque peak to save the transmission, as you say. It's easy to undo that, but there's no guarantee you won't shred an expensive gearbox.

0700700

if driven carefully, while allowing the transmission oil to heat up nicely .. and without excessive burnouts, im sure the tranny can handle it

is yours chipped/tuned?

whoover

Mine's stock. I paid for a MB transmission once and scare the hell out everyone with it as it is.

0700700

surely you got warranty ? you can have fun the reflash it back to OEM ECU map and get a free replacement


the 65 makes mincemeat out of pretty much everything , i know

Tuskir

Its pretty logical to assume that supercharger will be availble for the 63 soon, aftermarket of course. 7 speed transmission will have no problems handling the power, there are many kleemann/renntech SLK55's running around just fine with close to 600lb-ft. The transmission in 63 is probably even stronger than SLK55's.

sprins

Well, if you are right, then that's probably the reason they cancelled the V8 turbo (for now) and maintain the V12 65.

What I heard was that the V8 turbo would be a 6l (not 6.2l) V8 probably for a better compression ratio for forced induction.

Anyway, common sense tells me that it's either the V12 turbo or the V8 turbo. It wouldn't make sense to have 'm both. As we don't in fact

HLG600

The TT setup is ideal for the BMW, since it is sporting an I6 under the hood, enabling one turbocharger to three cylinders. Since this is an entirely new motor, we have yet to see what AMG will do with it. The only logical use (from a business standpoint) of a TT 6.3 would be to replace the M275 V12. However, given the R&D put into that motor, it would be nonsense to replace it so early.

What does this mean for us, the MB enthusiasts? Well, as more 63's take over the lineup, 55K's will become affordable cars. E55's are fetching $40K and for another couple thousand can be turned into animals. The 63's are more refined cars; it is comparable to a precision blade versus a hammer; same speed, just a different approach.

Now, in regards to the transmission. MB says it handle a maximum of 1200NM, but in reality it can probably withstand more. Why? Because these are safety measures. Liken this to the whole 91 octane versus 87 octane debate. You can feed 87 octane to an M275 V12. Truly, you can, since most of these stock ECU's are cabable of adjusting themselves to a lower grade. That is one of the key components of ECU tuning; to remove all factory limtations.
These are all failsafe measures taken to ensure product reliabilty.

If I could have a choice between an M275 V12 or an entirely new NA AMG V12 with the latest AMG technology, I would select the latter. I have traction issues with my "humble" 420TQ...which is made at 3800 rpms. I use the gears manually, keeping the motor in the midrange, and this 'ol tank will upset alot of modern-day sports cars. It's alot, but it's still usable power. The 65's 738TQ at a ridicuously low 1800 rpms is absurd and truly useless. But you know what...I'd still be ear to ear in a 65 everytime I see that orange triangle flash under such power...at highway speeds mind you.

0700700

absolutely agree. The engine's knock control can "sense" what grade fuel you are putting in the car, and can adjust performance accordingly. I typically use RON95 fuel for the CLS55, whereas i used RON98 for the E46 M3 !

I do believe the key here is the "proper" exploitation of the gearbox. If you tune the SL65 to 1200nm and do burnouts within a minute of starting up the car from cold, you are bound to have problems.


As for the 55s, maybe the problem is that there are too many of them in the US, especially the E55s. I paid around 158000$ for my brand new CLS55 less than three weeks ago , and the cheapest E55s (with around 30000miles) go for around 85000$

No doubt the CLS55, with its lower number of production will command higher prices in years to come

As for me id always go with the "hammer"... if i wanted a powerful NA engine, id have gone with the M5... i find it much more impressive than the CLS63, and yet lacking when compared to the CLS55

HLG600

I think we can all agree that a WOT burnout following startup would have some stressfull results.

$158K for a CLS55? I am assuming you live in a foreign country where cars are more costly...otherwise you need to drive a truck through your dealer.

As for M5 vs. 55K vs. 63...it's all preference man. I love the torquey power of my motor while my friend prefers the M3's motor design. The squat-and-go acceleration of the 63 is what appeals to me. But, as I said, I would be having loads of fun lighting up the ESP light on a 55K.

0700700

i live in one of the poorest countries in eastern europe hence we gotta pay so high

cars are expensive in europe !

http://home.mobile.de/SIDSNiVrQNobP....11111245020866



i used to have an m3 before, so i tried best of both worlds

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=23753&hl=

Zod

This just came to me, isnt the 65 engin a maybch engin de-tuned? if so what trany does the maybch have???????

0700700

the 65 engine, was put in the 57s and 62s (correct?) , after it was debuted in the S/SL/CL class. Hence it should use the same autobox?

0700700

found it:
http://www.autosite.com/content/rese...andardFeatures

TREZ63

Damn bro, are you a researcher or something? Way to find some good info!

Zod

ok i found it now, the Maybach 5.5 v12 turbo 52 s auto 4dr uses a 612bhp v12 engin, with 738lb ft of torque. This is the same engin in the 65 line up isnt it?
I was confused earlier on with the above quote. Its the 600 merc line up that uses the de-tuned maybch engin isnt it?

whoover

The Maybachs and 65s use the same engine, in the same state of tune. It's 604 HP SAE or 612 BHP. This is determined by the torque limitation of 1000 N-m to match the strongest transmission MB has, the W5A1000. It is the gearbox used in all V-12s, 600s, 65s and Maybachs. As the 7G-tronic's model number, W7A700, implies, it is only certified to handle 70% of the torque that the big-bore V-12 produces.

The 600s use a smaller displacement version (5.5 vs. 6 liter), which produces 510 HP SAE. It's a bit of a stretch to call it a detuned version of the 65 engine because most of us reserve that term for less drastic changes -- the sorts of things the manufacturer does with ECU and intake restriction, but they are both related twin turbo V-12s.

0700700

nah mate, just search on google

mrademacher

how do you get "TURBO" lag with a "SUPER" charger ??? JA

mrademacher

I'm only speaking to whats available now. The 63 very well could have a supercharger kit in the near future. When it does, I'll probably have one. Untill then, the 55 with the current mods that are already available (no hypotheticals, no guessing) puts a smile on my face every time I start it.