m_berman

Came across this on the E55/63 forum. Its the Extreme Belt Wrap for the 55 S/C.

Check it out at: https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/199850-vrp-extreme-belt-wrap-kit.html

joeybenz106

i like the whole idea but also Stuttgart Tech had some very good questions also about the extra load on the superchager bearing. how much more stress does that put on the superchager? sounds like a great idea but if it works well for lets say a year then you have a supercharger problem due to the extra stress on the bearing? not due to working it so much but due to the extra pressure pulling down on it?

ROCKETW19

you have a CLS so your not supposed to know but stuggarttech is/was a fake if you followed the E55 fourm you would know. he was just tryin to do what he did put doubt it peoples minds to hurt VRP. if what he said was true the very worst that could happen is the bearing could go out witch is metal on metal so im sure it would take a long time unless you completely crank down on the tensioner. your only supposed to tighten it untill the belt stops slippin. i belive it is carlson that makes the exact same product so im sure it wont cause to much harm.

joeybenz106

sorry man didnt mean to knock anyone at all. i do think that it is a great idea. just from what i was reading he did give a good point from that. but as long as it dont put extream pressure on the pully i dont see why it would screw anything up.

ROCKETW19

no need to say sorry bro. you have valid points and its good that you were watchin out for m berman.

joeybenz106

Does anyone still have one of theses still installed? any problems? how many miles? i think its such a great idea just from the photos it really looks like its pulling down on on the supercharger from some of the photos, and info some guys had probems getting a belt on or it was very tight to get it on.

Zod

Was it proven he was a fake? No dissing or anything just curious if there has been any pming and if there is more info to shed light on this mater is all
His comments from what I recall were it was a street supercharger and was meant to slip!
From my understanding, older model builds suffer from this due to design and belt basically been stretched with use/wear maybe other factors.

Slipping was slightly fixed in later models with new clutch engage if I recall. People opting for this are ones with high slippage/ older models, most likely people who are moding, but I hear we have some stock people who got it to?

He also did make a valid comment on Mclaren and DTM not having this design or something similar on their higher end sport monsters.... one would question if these two giants of motor sport not taking something like this into consideration?

He did also mention that DTM did it and had clutches failing while testing.
Then you have to remember that these are MBs and MBs have standards of safety reliability etc mass amounts of hours of testing and R&D so these are the question I feel he left us with.

Like I stated if he came on with info that looked rubbish then yeah, but what proof do you have that what he said is not true, we can also argue that what proof does he have.

The board owns for info and sharing knowledge and I believe this is a good case for that, so lets keep an open mind J, I am assuming some people believe he did not respond because he was a fake, you are also forgetting that what reason does he have to prove him self to people that basically called him out to be a fake when he tried to provide info?
Put your self in his shoes why would you bother?

Put questions like if he was a fake good reddens
If he wasn’t we kind of just lost a good source of information and a helping hand

i think what vrus and finny have done goes beyond amazing and all the people that contributed and they truly are helpful and great guys and true car enthusiasts, but even vrus him self states that he likes to hear feedback/comments to help better resolve/improve things, which i think is fantastic approach

Again if you have any info that was not mentioned openly it would help a lot of unsure minds

IngenereAMG

I have an SL55 that I run fairly hard, most of the time......it is tuned and derestricted. I do track days and it has seen 200mph, and I have never experienced any loss of power from belt slippage. I have had the IC pump fail once, but that's it. Have you guys experienced alot of this, or is this an urban myth!

bleek

I have kept away from ading my two cents on this issue because anything i say in regards to a product connected to a so called tuner gets turned into "he's only saying this because he hates the guy!" But the funny thing is i share my experience and state facts.

I actually got an e-mail from stuggart tech asking me about my cylinder head project, i also had a chance to ask him a great many questions. He gave me his number but that was a lost cause as his english was very hard to understand if not impossible, but he was very knowledgeable and he knew alot about AMG stuff. I have to agree with what he said on the belt wrap thread, see i would consider investing or trying something like this if there was a guarantee on the clutch not failing or bearings failing, and if they did they would replace the parts, because i think clutch pack replacement with out warranty is over $2000usd!

I'll say this my car made 578rwhp running pig rich due to the fact that i had no fan on the front of the car and it started to overheat, guess what my make plenty of hp with a stock belt configuration, i know many others that make just as much jam as me and use the same set-up. With companies like Kleemann, Renntech, MKB that all have unlimited type resources i would think if this was a real concern they would have offered something, but WTF do i know.

jmf003

I'll add $0.02 here.

It seems to me that the supercharger belt is pretty much guaranteed to stretch and lose adhesion over time. How can it not? But there's a direct solution to that problem: buy a replacement belt.

It also seems to me that the stock tensioner is also pretty much guaranteed to weaken over time. And there's a similar solution: buy a replacement tensioner.

So there are two direct, relatively inexpensive, and warranty-friendly way to deal with possible belt slippage.

That said, I went ahead, purchased, and installed one of the Extreme Belt Wrap kits.

My reasons were pretty simple and all stem from a basic desire to fiddle with my engine. It's a sandbox for me and I am willing to take some risks to try interesting stuff.

I personally don't think this kit is particularly risky but anyone who is concerned about the risk should not try it.

To try to put "not particularly risky" into some scale, an overdrive crank pulley seems clearly more risky to me. An ODP forces the entire supercharger belt system to revolve significantly faster than the factory design, generating forces on the supercharger clutch and turbine that are significantly greater than factory design. That's not to say an ODP is overly risky; many people run them without incident.

To hit a few additional points quickly:

1) I didn't have any installation problems. In particular, I had no problem sliding the belt over the supercharger pulley.

2) I get to choose how much tension to apply to the belt, as little as the stock tensions or somewhat more if I engage the auxiliary tension. I have only a whisker of auxiliary tension applied.

3) It should be pretty easy to return the belt arrangement to factory stock if I ever want to do that.

4) I actually liked what Stuttgart Tech had to say. There was an misunderstanding about pulley coverage area versus supercharger clutch slip percentage but that was cleared up.

5) I don't have any firm data to report. I hope to get in a trip to the local dragstrip sometime soon. We'll see what happens.

ROCKETW19

my .02 ccs first off i got a pm from stuggart teck cuzz i asked for his number he gave me one i had a friends dad call who speaks german and it was a good number and ext. but there was no claus at this ext. and he said i needed more than claus cuzz that is everyones name.lol. i guess like smith?? anyways in the tread he had perfect spelling. thats funny to me since i cant spell at all. anyways who cares about that.
i trust a few people on this board when it comes to engine stuff being vic, finny, bleek, and grumpy666. i have heard vic and finny. just now heard bleek i wish he would of said something i wanted to hear. i havnt heard from grumpy666 i am real intrested in what he has to say.
on that note my car is on the dyno as we speak out come to follow today or tonight in the E55 fourm. i have no doubt it will fix my problem but have no clue if it will have long term effect. im not to worried though. im only gonna tighten it enough to solve my slipin. i can always take it off and go in for warranty.
when i first installed my new pully i had 518,528,538 rwhp dont remember exactly but it had a 8 at the end. anyways i took my car back to adam to check my ecu do to my car runnin ritch. he dynoed and asked if i had the ecu re-flashed cuzz i lost so much power. my air was all over the place along with a wacked out hp reading. after talkin to vic it all made since it was the belt slippin at high rpms. cars with regular pullys or even renn or K pullys might not even need thids but if you have ASP or evotech pully you will get slip sooner or later.

joeybenz106

Well i must say that if you can adjust how much tension you can apply to the belt then i dont see the product have any problems now its on the owner or person who is Playing with the adjustment. when i first read this i thought that it was just like you installed it put the belt on and it took care of the rest. that being said i think this product is a great idea as long as you dont tighten the belt down too much

bleek

Thanks for the respect, and i do apologise for saying something you didn't want to hear, only thing is i speak from experience and truth. See i feel bad sometimes because i feel like i'm the parent that has to tell a child the tooth fairy isn't coming or isn't real. I've been racing for a long time built more motors then i can remember, and my car speaks for itself.

Rocket man perhaps i can shed a bit more light into why i chose to stick with the stock set up. One reason of many is just one you encountered! The supercharger pulley and clutch assembly is already under alot of stress and pressure from just verticle tension. So now when pullies do not line up and belts start popping off, that tells me how much more stress the assembly is going through! See now it not only sees verticle pressure it is now seeing side loading or what i call torsional twist. So are we following along yet, so we assume we can line up the pullies again and the belt no longer comes off. The real problem is just because the belt isn't coming off how can you 100% know the pullies are perfectly aligned, we are just eye balling, now the concern is the side loading is still there, what do you think is going on with the bearings and clutch, you guessed it, it's getting the crap kicked out of it. Also in supercharged cars pulley alignment is critical because of the load and force involved, having a water pump pulley or alternator pulley off a bit nothing gets hurt too bad, messing with a clutch and bearing assembly means an *** kicking is the pocket books.

At least with aftermarket pullies there still in stock location and not much is messed with.

If i felt that my car really lost that much due to belt slipage i'd use the ultimate solution, and it would be fairly cost effective. Get all the pullies set up for a cog style or gilmer belt, not much tension there for no load, and zero slip. I can't live in fantasy land and my car isn't raced on a bench or in a lab, i have to come up with real world solutions. Rocket to get a clutch pulley and crank pulley machined out of billet is not that expensive, but my only concern is still the clutch assembly, it's not set up to take that kind of load, my 2cents is i can sacrifice the 2-5hp i lose from belt slip and make up the hp with a good set of air filters. But what do it know, i'm just a frikin chassis guy.

bleek

One more thing, i am all for great ideas and things being cost effective, but my problem is people trying to say everything is tested and engineers are building and designing stuff when there not and charging a premium for something average, i guess it's the whole marketing thing, talk the talk get people to believe and then make excusses later.

Truth is you get what you pay for, Renntech, Kleemann, MKB charge a real premium because there is some real r&d there! Why do you think those guys use a 165mm pulley, they did there research! These companies actually test with there own cars, so that we as customers don't have to do the testing for them and get into trouble. I'm willing to bet a killer Groupe M airbox fits like a glove with no notching and grinding, just like good software from a real tuner, you get what you pay for.

I'll use my own project as an example, the r&d that went into my heads was well over $25K and people tell me all the time they can get heads ported for $1000! So be it, but the time it took and to get the results i got, i highly doubt that $1000 port job could even hold a candle to the power my heads make. From shaping of runners to even the finish on the ports, nothing was spared.

I guess the short version of this story is often saving in the short run costs more money in the long run and could also shorten engine life.

Disclaimer: These are only my views and thoughts, everyone is entitled to there own opinion, i am only accountable for my kids and making power, other then that your on your own.

ROCKETW19

dont worrie about what i want to hear bro i want to hear it all.
one problem though i didnt loose 2-5hp i lost 20-25hp if i remember correctly. it it was 2-5hp i wouldnt care.