Check Your Alignment!
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Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 207
Likes: 1
From: Redondo Beach
Z06, M3, Mini Cooper S. Sold: C55
Check Your Alignment!
I just upgraded to better tires from the nasty Continentals, and also checked my alignment to see if I could get this pig to turn corners better...
Turns out the toe in was stupid from the factory! The factory had this thing set to 1/4" toe in front & rear! No wonder this thing was a pig on turn in!!! I changed it to 1/32" front, and 1/16" rear, and now it turns in much better. I also installed some rather thin camber washers up front, and it helped. Something for everyone to check if unhappy with the handling.
Turns out the toe in was stupid from the factory! The factory had this thing set to 1/4" toe in front & rear! No wonder this thing was a pig on turn in!!! I changed it to 1/32" front, and 1/16" rear, and now it turns in much better. I also installed some rather thin camber washers up front, and it helped. Something for everyone to check if unhappy with the handling.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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I think the pirelli asimmetricos were a last minute fix. The outside edge of the "asimmetricos" has a thicker more durable edge that gives cars with no camber, a slight negative camber effect based on how the tires load in corners. I think they did this to account for the total lack of camber. Apparently it worked because the new C55 did the nordschleife in like 8:22. That is smoking for a car in this class and is equal to the M3's time. (please let's not get into this). It was also several seconds faster than the 996 carrera 4, and I think just a couple seconds slower than the new 997 s. All and all, very impressive. I think it is like anything. Ultimately, you want a neutral car, which means the rear end lightens up and slips a bit through turn in, helping you hit the apex more naturally. But, our cars have moderate understeer balance, which means that we can either correct by doing a lift throttle move on corner entry, or late-late break to keep from loading the fronts up to quickly. Either way is fast even if it doesn't feel as good to the driver. It just takes more skill to pump an understeer or oversteer car around a track quickly. ultimately, you probably won't equal the neutral car on back-to-back hot laps, but I do think the balance issues are more significant as annoyances and lawyer installed kill joys rather than as time killers.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: OC
C32
So did the alignment shop measure the 1/4" of front toe with your camber shims in place and has your car been lowered. Both these things will cause the front to toe in. Never heard of anyone having so much toe in in the rear. Why did you not have the rear set to zero toe?
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Grapevine, Texas
2004 Capri Blue C32
Could this explain why my stock front Pirelli's wore only on the outside edges, down to the threads? Or could it just be from my aggressive cornering? When I took the car to NTB, they suggested that I need an alignment, but I didn't really think I did.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Could be a part of it, sure. Just the fact that they are asymmetric and designed to handle th cornering force, if you corner in the car hard or even moderately, then you should rub off the outside edges first. Well, you should probably wear out the center ribs first and then the outside edges, but the insides tend to go last on these tires. If the tires were toed in then you would probably just see increased tire wear on any given tire rather than lopsided wear that you get from asymmetric tread compounds.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Westchester, NY
E55, C32, ML320
I switched from the Pirelli P-Zeros to the Goodyear GS-D3s last year after two years on the Pirellis. With just a year and 10k miles on the Goodyears, the outside edges of the fronts are completely worn while the rest has a good amount of tread to go. Even the backs are still looking good. I did oversize the fronts a bit when I went to the Goodyears, from 225 to 235 but I'm not sure if that played any role.
I drive somewhat agressively, so it's not a surprise that the tires would wear like this. But I am surprised that the Pirellis went so much longer and didn't show the outer edge wear to this extent.
I was thinking of going to the PS2s. Would I be better off with a asymmetric tire?
Making matters worse, I just found out my two front rims are bent so this may also the time to go with new rims all around as well...
I drive somewhat agressively, so it's not a surprise that the tires would wear like this. But I am surprised that the Pirellis went so much longer and didn't show the outer edge wear to this extent.
I was thinking of going to the PS2s. Would I be better off with a asymmetric tire?
Making matters worse, I just found out my two front rims are bent so this may also the time to go with new rims all around as well...
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: San Francisco, CA
1996 C36 AMG, 1995 Volvo 850 Turbowagon
10k miles doesn't sound too bad on these max-tires. but a rwd should not wear as much as fwd. the old s-02 lasted about 10k for me on the fronts w/o rotation on my wagon.
don't forget ur camber. if u have anything 0 or positive, then u may see increased wear on the outside as well. certainly, hard cornering doesn't help the tires. u'r abusing the outside basically. next time, if u get a chance. put some chalk on ur tire walls, u'd be surprised how much they flex. if u get that toe-in fixed, and u still get outside edge wear, u may want to increase camber...-0.5 to -1.0 is traditionally optimal, but the c55/c32 may be diff and u may need more to help compensate. just don't go overboard and pull a ricer with ridiculous camber
don't forget ur camber. if u have anything 0 or positive, then u may see increased wear on the outside as well. certainly, hard cornering doesn't help the tires. u'r abusing the outside basically. next time, if u get a chance. put some chalk on ur tire walls, u'd be surprised how much they flex. if u get that toe-in fixed, and u still get outside edge wear, u may want to increase camber...-0.5 to -1.0 is traditionally optimal, but the c55/c32 may be diff and u may need more to help compensate. just don't go overboard and pull a ricer with ridiculous camber
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Super Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 538
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From: White Lake, MI
04 C320 Coupe MT
The reason there is so much toe in from the factory is that these vehicles are designed to be driven a very high speed, which has the effect of pulling the toe out as speed increases. That way, when you are really flying, you still have a bit of toe in, and more importantly stable handling.
Most dealers that have alignment technicians and on the ball service advisors will offer to put the toe in specification closer to the outside of the spec. in order to save tire life. However, as we all know, the dealers aren't always on the ball!
Most dealers that have alignment technicians and on the ball service advisors will offer to put the toe in specification closer to the outside of the spec. in order to save tire life. However, as we all know, the dealers aren't always on the ball!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,597
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From: San Francisco, CA
1996 C36 AMG, 1995 Volvo 850 Turbowagon
the nsx was notorious for having too much toe-in on the rear...3000 mile rear tires were not uncommon. later models were changed to less aggressive setting.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 207
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From: Redondo Beach
Z06, M3, Mini Cooper S. Sold: C55
Originally Posted by more151please
how did you get continentals, when i got pirellis? my car turns just fine
Long story, but I got Conti's as the dealer screwed up... they sent the wheels to be chromed and got back CLK 55 wheels instead, which had Contis. When they ordered me the correct C55 wheels, they just swapped the tires.
Car isn't lowered and shims weren't in place yet. These things have almost no camber from the factory either. Just about 1/2 deg neg. Not nearly enough for this nose heavy car. I currently have -1.125 front, and -1.25 rear camber. This thing feels like it could use another -.5 in front, and maybe a little bigger rear sway bar. I left a little toe in at the rear as I've always found on street/track cars it helps the tracking & stability a bit.
