John Long 55

well JR1 I said 70hp and you say 58hp! Did you research how much hp will be lost tru the belt drive setup???

The point of my reply is that when people post they make very broad statements without actually researching their data first

Oh and according to your prevous post we should take into account drive train losses in driving the supercharger

Josh K

Hey, I almost forgot - it's Monday! Shouldn't we see some dyno results? What's the verdict? How'd the tuning work out?

Vadim-SoCal

Sorry, but have you done a turbo on an AMG????????????????????

My guess, is no.

I do not mean to take away from your tuning prowless, but AMG owners expect 100% factory like driveability.

Please note not 99%, but a 100%.

Doing it with a turbo is fairly complex endeavour that if anything will require a tremendous amount of time and effort.

If you think you can make a turbo kit that will pass CA smog and retain factory driveability, than please go ahead and do it. I would love to see one. .

However, it does not exist. Sorry, but I am dealing and sharing my experiences with my present reality, not theories.

P.S. Kleemann has both a factory - 100% - like driveability and CARB exemption number. The tuning they have works with every engine.

JR1

Exactly, pointing out that you make assumptions. If you want to take into account drivetrain losses for the supercharger YOU could but why? The charger at a given point will make more horsepower than it takes so it offsets the balance. Do you have a point? You come off a bit half-****ed, you have a reason for it? Your reffering to Eaton in your post and apparently trying to throw dirt on Kleemann systems. Kleemann reffers to their HP at the crank.

John Long 55

JR1 are Kleemann using Eaton superchargers? Honest question because i don't know.

If you think because i ask questions about the differences between figures quoted on the Kleemann site and quote by their customers to throw dirt at Kleemann that is up to you.

JR1 i have many points but they are all going well over your head.

John Long 55

Vadim do all Kleemann kits S1 to S8 have a CARB exemption no.?

You are correct i have never tuned a turbo amg and there appears to be a gap in the market so that may change very soon, thanks for the invite

Single Garrett Ball Bearing 500kw capable
0.5 Bar @ 2500rpm
400kw @ 6000rpm
750Nm from 2700 - 5500rpm
Single External Wastegate
Adjustable Boost Option
Tube and Fin Extruded Aluminium Core
Cast Aluminium End Tanks
Aluminium Single Piece Intercooler Piping
Silicon Hoses
Bosch Blow Off Valve
Manifolds Fabricated Schedule 10 Stainless Steel
Exhaust Manifolding and Cross Over
Under Guard Cold Air Inlet
2 Bar Positive Pressure Mapping
2 Bar MAP Sensor

Price should be pretty good as no cam or head work needs to be done and the car will run like stock with stock fuel economy when the power is not being used. Yesp lots of hours needed to get it right as Vadim points out but we have done it before with WRX, EVO, LS1, 350Z etc kits.

AMGSC

I will keep my mouth shut until the results are in. HPS claims they have nothing to hide. Debug and Upgrades scheduled for Thursday. Stay Tuned for results on Monday of next week I estimate.

Options:
1. HPS kit kicks ***. Yeah!!!!
2. Restore to Stock. (if refunded)
3. Sell car to HPS & Buy 2007 4-valve and SC or TC)
4. Install another brand of SC
5. Go Turbo for MAX POWER

Budget = $30K max.

What are the odds of each coming true?

KompressorKev

sounds like an awesome project. what kind of garrett turbo for 500kw, that's some pretty intense power? gt35/40? gt42r? that's quite a bit of power at only 7.85 (or so) psi, which would sound under the compressor efficiency range of the more massive turbos to produce big power. either way, looks like if you have such figures then it will be a very efficient setup. i look forward to hearing more about your project - sounds like a great plan!

KompressorKev

turbo involves a lot of custom fab and time. i hope that your end results with HPS is what you hoped it would be, and that you get what was advertised. but, as seen with DragonAMG's beast, kleemann is proven. what other C runs 11's on 19" street tires on pump gas! that alone is a testament to kleemann's capabilities, and their huge product support and customer testimonials from the 55k members really make it a great tuning outfit.

John Long 55

The gt35/40 is too big as we are limited to 7 or 8psi boost with the stock internals of the 5.5L. Not finalized yet but we have made an easy 350rwkw with GT30 equiped LS1s so 400fwkw (flywheel kw) would seem relatively simple for the 5.5L merc.

Btw many of our LS1 GTOs are running in the 10s with no changes other than slicks and the cars drive like stock when your not on the juice. Simple test... let the customer's wives take the car for a drive to the mall and see if they notice anything different. They never do, unless they use more than a quarter throttle.

Thanks for your comments

dragonAMG

I was actually running 100 octane when I ran the 11.9

JamE55

I hope this monday you're talking about doesn't turn into another monday etc... In any case good luck on your endeavor and hope you find what you're looking for.

ProjectC55

LOl! Hang in there Kid! Give him a chance! Hang in there!I'm dying here as well I'm hoping he gets good #'s!Well I'm hoping!

ProjectC55

More practice and I feel you should be running lower ETs with those same mods.Well Should'nt you be?

JR1

[QUOTE=John Long 55]JR1 are Kleemann using Eaton superchargers? Honest question because i don't know.

If you think because i ask questions about the differences between figures quoted on the Kleemann site and quote by their customers to throw dirt at Kleemann that is up to you.

JR1 i have many points but they are all going well over your head.[/QUOTE

To date Kleemann still uses Autorotor as their choice of compressors. Hate to burst your bubble but you have yet to go over my head.

Your going to go to a turbo setup on a 55? Good luck with that..

KompressorKev

kleemann uses twin screw type blower, like amg does. this is more efficient than an eaton (roots) type blower. twin screws are more adiabatically efficient than roots.

John Long 55

KKev & JR1 are these twin screw supercharges materially more adiabatically efficient than an Eaton supercharger at the low boost levels 7-8psi these high compression AMG engines are limited too?

There is no doubt that twin screw type blower is more adiabatically efficient than an Eaton over 10psi...

Cheers
John

MARK CUMMINS

Back to the Subject...........Where are the Dynos from Monday?

KompressorKev

i am not familiar with the actual eaton and IHI or Autorotor applications on mercedes, but design wise, the twin screw is inherently more efficient. the roots type expedites air at a faster rate to the intake manifold, where the air amasses together and is compressed externally from the supercharger. twin screw produces internal compression, where the air is intermeshed between two screws in the supercharger. the difference in design and how they respectively compress air has implications to efficiency already, you can tell. how much more efficient the twin screw is over the roots type at low boost levels appropriate for high-compression (originally) n/a amg motors, i am not certain. however, i've read that twin screw blowers can be up to 25% more adiabatically efficient at the same boost pressure. due to the design differences, i would say it's possible that this difference is manifested greater (up to 25%) as boost pressures go up. it would make sense that the relationship between boost pressure and the twin screw's adiabatic efficiency advantage over roots type is not perfectly linear, because as boost pressures raise, the roots type will cause greater heat. the twin screw's internal compression nature may not necessarily be 25% more efficient than the roots's external compression at all boost pressures but, at equal boost pressures, the twin screw should be more efficient. still though, i do not have the answer to whether this difference is significant or negligible at low boost pressures. i think that is a question a professional with hands on experience is qualified to answer.


dragonAMG - well even with 100 octane, it's quite a feet to run 11's on 19" street tires. and think of the elevation you were at, i'm sure the sea-level corrected ET is much lower (and trap speeds higher) anyway i look forward to see you trapping in the 120's!

---------------------- Sorry to hijack thread

JamE55

.

Vadim-SoCal

Like Mark Cummings said, where are the dynos?????

We can all discuss merits of each SC design untill the cows come home. In the end, AMG used twin screws from IHI and I am pretty sure they had a pretty good reason why.

Here are the facts, in case they got overshadowed by small talk:

1. HPS kits do not make advertised HP/TQ.

2. HPS used other car dyno graphs as their own, which is FRAUD!!!!!

3. HPS is trying to fix the lack of tuning for their kits by promising current owners that their cars will be fixed.

So when can we see that tuning has been addressed???

Adam, I know you are reading this. You had my respect when you redesigned your kits per my advice and made them better.

However, you are about to loose it.

You do know why.

rbaker

Exactly... but how about another test. In addition to the usual dyno on a cool to moderately warm engine, lets pull the car off the rollers, shut the hood & drive it fairly hard for an hour or so after. Shut it off for a few minutes here & there & let it heat soak. Then, after driving for a few more, pull straight back on the dyno & test again. Any car will lose HP, but many forced induction cars fall flat on their face after the entire aftercooler system is heat soaked. I'd be curious to see how the HPS compares to Kleeman & others (including n/a) on this.

Josh K

That's why I love my centrifugal ;0)

The Godfather

Got a ride in W210 E55 HPS 1st GEN S/C...****'s fast and mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Makes me wanna get an HPS s/c....but nah.... I want HOP!!!

pshek

Ask Josh R to do it! The centrifugal supercharger kit is for the money, especially since it's tuned properly. I would have gotten his kit, but it won't fit in my little c-coupe's engine bay. It fits in the 202 208 and 210 chassis.

...and since his kit doesn't fit 203's, I ended up buying a whole new C32 motor.