sdsilverm3

Some of you are probably expecting pictures of my car with the BBS LM's installed and lowered. Well, nothing ever goes as planned. The front coilovers had clearance issues with the spring coils wanting to touch the tires. Since my car isn't the first MB with clearance issues KW had told the shop (Group5 Motorsport) to get aftermarket wheels to remedy the issue. Well I can tell you that isn't the fix. Outside of running a custom 19x8 offset wheel in the front such as HRE's, the issue still remains with a 19x8.5" configuration. Basically it looks like the height adjustability is severely restricted with the 8.5" width.

We also tried a 10mm spacer on the BBS LM's and that didn't do anything to help either as the 2nd or 3rd coil would have contacted the inner wheel lip had we adjusted the height to where I wanted it. To make a long story, we spent a whole time of time (about 5-6 hours) trying to figure out what we could do to fix the issue but ended up with a whole lot of nothing other than the setup just will not work. Next step is to call KW to see if they can get us a different spring with less taper but that seems a longshot. If not we have other things to try, things that weren't available on a Saturday. The last thing I want to do is get HRE's because the LM's looked like everything I hoped it would when we did the test fit. So close but no cigar.

Just wanted to say thanks to Joe at Group5 for opening up shop so we could use the lift on a Saturday and Shane from Harloff (Group5's installer for euro cars) for sticking it through the long hours on an off-day trying all possible solutions until none were available. I guess that's what happens when you're working on a guinea pig car. :p

I do have a few questions for those who are willing to answer them.

1)Are there any differences in the C32, C230, suspension vs. the C55? I'm referring to the way it lines up, angles, etc. and not about spring rate and shock valve rates. I know the AMG's have bigger calipers but beyond that are there any other variables that would change the physical alignment of the shock and springs?

2)Was there a change to the suspension from MY 04 w203's and 05-06 W203's?

3)Could someone please post pictures of their front H&R coilovers? I specifically need the shot of the spring and coilover seat.

4)Could someone please post pictures of their front TEIN coilovers? I specifically need the shot of the spring and coilover seat.

5)Could someone please post pictures of their front Bilstein PSS9 coilovers? I specifically need the shot of the spring and coilover seat.

Thanks in advance!

Here are some pics from Saturday:

This is a pic of the clearance we had with the stock wheel. We already knew we would need spacers with the stock C55 wheels but the LM's didn't fare any better even with a 5mm or 10mm spacer. Keep in mind the car is still on the lift with no compression on the springs..



Contact with the stock wheel.


This is as close as we got with the LM's on. We had the car on the ground but I didn't snap a pic. .


Here the wheels sit until our next opportunity.


Here's what the car should have looked like if all went well (w/stockers).

Blake P

Neal (BlackC230Coupe) is the only one I know off the top of my head who ran KW's and aftermarket wheels on a C55. I know there was someone else, but can't remember who. Width of the wheel is often not the problem...it's likely the offset. I wouldn't imagine anything larger than 30 would work, since that's the offset on the C55 AMG wheels.

1V8C55

Sorry to hear about the coilovers. I hope everything works out. The last picture of your C55 is sweet. Makes we want to lower my ride asap.

Try to PM DbleNckel. He's running the PSS9 setup and may be able to help you out with the pics you're looking for.

sdsilverm3

Thanks for the info Blake. The LM's are +32 offset with a 5mm spacer by default. 10mm didn't seem to help much either with the KW's.

Thanks for the suggestion Neo. I will PM him. Interesting that he's running 19x8" HRE's in the front. Hmm.....I wonder if there's a reason why.

Blake P

Another thing I thought of...the rubbing could be caused by the added negative camber of your wheels from lowering, so if you had a front camber kit that straightened the wheels out you might actually be ok. Just a thought.

sdsilverm3

You do bring up a good point Blake. I was going to leave the camber as-is to avoid issues with hitting the lip of the fender while just aligning toe, etc. Thanks for the suggestion and that would definitely buy me maybe ~5mm more of clearance.

pshek

Sorry to hear about your problem. I also had the same issue in my C-coupe. I have KW V1 coilovers and SSR GT3 19x8, 19x9. I needed 5mm spacers to clear the coilovers. After I changed to the Brabus BBK, spacers weren't needed because of the increased negative offset from the rotors. 8.5" tire width might be too wide? Have you thought about fender rolling or shaving and using spacers? I think correcting the negative offset would increase rubbing problems. I had to roll the fenders and shave them on my car.

BlackC230Coupe

Did you try raising the car up and then maybe using spacers? the front looks very low. I had mine low also, i really was not able to even stick one finger in the front, but it was not as low as yours. With 19s on the car it would be lower then mine was. When i ordered my HRE wheels i did not spec them for coilovers and my 2 front tires rubbed. It shaved about 3mm of the sidewall off but after that it was ok. Here is a picture of what the front coilover looked like after 1k miles or so.

sdsilverm3

We are currently trying to use 5mm spacers with the BBS wheels but clearance is still a concern. I asked about running a 10mm spacer and rolling the front fender but the rolling machine might be too much pressure and pull the front fender outwards from its mounting point. Shaving would be something that I am open to however would be the last option because it is irreversible.

Neal, the picture is actually a photochop. We didn't pull the car out of the bay with the stock wheels because they wouldn't even rotate without contact. That's how low I would like the car to be but I am realizing it may not happen. The ride height was at a reasonable height when we tried out the BBS's (nothing extreme). The picture of your springs look like it ate quite a bit of your tires. What tires were you running if you don't mind me asking? Were the springs close to penetrating the inner sidewall and did the spring seat contact ? If the rub is minor I will just let it be. I just hope it isn't a major issue where the tire will "catch" when a big bump is hit.

FrankW

I think the main problem is that you want to set up the car way too low other wise the rubbing should be minimal like Neal's car or Tony/DbleNckel's car.

here's a picture of c_brabus's car with H&R coilover set pretty low. He needs a 3mm spacer for the front to clear the springs and shaved the front fender just to be safe, but if he drives fast over bumps the fender will still cut his tires.

sdsilverm3

Frank, I do realize that the height where I had it at is too low. Let's use Neal's picture as a reference. My seats were set so that about 60% of Neal's threads were showing. The springs hadn't hit the tires on the BBS's yet but over a bump it would have touched. I'm thinking of getting a larger spacer and let it be.

This is Peter's (pc527) C32 on H&R's with the same wheels and spacers. Do you think it is a reasonable drop? I think I would be happy with the same drop.

CDP

sdsilverm3, Looking at the picture of Peter's C32 ... The drop on his car would be perfect in my eyes.

I'm sorry to hear that you have problems with this whole project so far. I hope everything goes well after you do those modifications. Still love your white C55 - ever since the Encinitas meet.

sdsilverm3

Hey what's up Chris? I wanted to go lower but I'd be happy with Peter's drop. Problems are nothing new to me. Every car I've had has been an issue car when it comes to modifications. They eventually work themselves out though so I'm hoping this one does too. I hope all goes well in time for the Pasadena meet.

SiLvaC32

gluck bro. modifications are always a ***** when you are the first one doin it. trust me... i know! haha, but once everythin is resolved, you'll be one happy man.

smgC32

What is the diameter of the KW strut tube? The bilsteins are 55mm and are 5mm larger than stock at the point of contact with the wheel. With any coilover, you have to set the perch above the tire side wall arch and close to the top of the tire's tread in order to avoid rubbing. I have no problems with my Carlsson's and the ride height is pretty low. I will post some pics later. It is possible that the KW's have a longer wind than the PSS-9's or the H&R's, therefore not allowing you to drop the car as much. What is your fender to center line of wheel measurement? Anything below 13.25" will rub. Mine is at this height. And remember that all tires have different side wall profiles. Some are too wide and verticle, some very rounded, even in the same 235 size. Sorry to hear of your problem. I know how frustrating this can be.

sdsilverm3

Thanks and I agree. Being a guinea pig isn't fun. I think I just have to be patient here as we try different things.

I have not measured the diameter of the KW's but I vaguely remember that they are about 53mm at the wheel/tire contact point. The stock AMG shocks are tapered to 50mm at the same point. I am running 235/35/19 Toyo T1R's on the wheels I will be running and have not measured fender to centerline yet. The Toyo's sidewall are as rounded as you can get.

It's frustrating because I bought coilovers thinking they would go much lower than springs but obviously I can't go that much lower or there will be issues. I'm actually feeling a bit more encouraged as I hear that KW might be releasing a AMG coilover kit in the near future that could resolve all these issues. I actually told Tom from KW at one time that I would be willing to give them my car to use for R&D assuming they can sell me something that would fit with no spacer, clearance issues, etc. The C55 front suspension is similar to an E36 M3. I don't see why they just can't shrink the springs instead of trying to duplicate the McPherson setup. We'll see what becomes of that because something is supposedly in the works.

In the meantime we're going with 10mm spacers and will be trying again this Saturday. If anyone else has more insight please feel free to chime in.

MBNorCal

i wonder how the Tein's would work with the AMG C's.

sdsilverm3

Same here. I need pictures of the front coilovers.

MBNorCal

this may help, but the perch looks bigger and he is using a 12.25 spacer on a lm6 style wheel. perhaps H&R or blistein?

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...highlight=tein

smgC32

Here are some pics of the Carlsson/PSS-9:

I spoke to KW several years back trying to get them to make a V3 with 60mm springs. It is the strut bell housing that is the problem. Our cars are not like a E36 M3. The only similarity is the McP design. The upper bearing assembly and sheet metal is like an upside down bundt cake form! And the single point of penetration through the tower is non-adjustable. This is the challange we face. Ask KW for the unloaded spring length and length to coil bind measurements. Then compare to H&R and Bilstein.

As you can see, the GSD3's sidewall profile is much fatter than the same size T1-S.

Jon Winter

The car is too low!! I run -1.4 deg of camber.

BlackC230Coupe

I was running PS2's. They did shave off quite a bit of the sidewall. Its hard to tell how much though.

sdsilverm3

Thanks for all of the responses and pics guys. They were very helpful. After talking to a number of people it seems like clearance will be scary looking regardless of coilover brand but in reality should be okay assuming I don't get too crazy with ride height. I've ordered the 10mm spacers from BBS just to be on the safe side with plans of rolling the front fender. Shoot me already! I've spent almost $300 on BBS wheel specific spacers.

Anyway, Saturday will be the day. Wish me luck.

FrankW

can't wait to see the pictures

sdsilverm3

I can't wait either. The one look I had of the car while it was lowered temporarily with the wheels is really motivating me to make this work. I liked the way the car looked and know this will be worth it in the end if it works out.